Illustrated: Yet Another Why-I-Don't-Go-to-the-Dealer thread...

[Powder Hound]

I probably should have named this thread 'Why I do my own wrenching'. So, since my wife's car died yesterday and she had to get a jump to get home, I did some quick checking and decided the best repair would be to replace the alternator. The battery is a good one and should not have died so fast, so I am going to give it the benefit of the doubt. Particularly since the car started with 1 hour of charging at 12 amps and when tested with the engine running, there was only 11.16 volts measured across the battery terminals. I'd say that's pretty good evidence that the alternator just isn't doing its job.

The thing is, it's a New Beetle. Ugh. So. Blinkin'. Many. Fasteners. to get the front clip off. Yikes. There must be 200 on each side. There's more it seems to me, because I don't have power tools. The real number is 'only' about 36 on each side, or maybe a few more, but. I mean, seriously, my wrists are really complaining right now. And after 12 hours, I'm still about 2 hours away from finishing.

But I digress...

The real reason I posted this is not to display my snail's pacing at auto repair, but instead to show a couple of good reasons why I don't like to go to a Stealer. Or indy mechanics.

The previous owner of this car did, and probably paid dearly. Jim Ellis in Atlanta's name is not found on lists of dealer that do superb work for very reasonable prices.

How do I know? (Edit: I don't have direct evidence of who installed the junkyard alternator. Happy 3golf?) Well, for one thing, the alternator that died is not the original. It came from a junkyard. It had a pulley solid mounted - that is, no overrun bearing (or sprag clutch, I've never cut one apart so I'm not sure). The socket for the stator current was broken. And, well this one is a little nit-picky because the manuals got a 120amp unit while I believe the autos got a 90 amp unit since they don't have coolant heating glow plugs (this is an ALH vintage unit) and the junk that was installed in my wife's NB was a 90-amp. It's an auto, but really. It is so easy and no difference in price, really, to just install a 120 amp unit, so why not?

To add to the list of slip-shod work, there was actually a cigarette butt tucked into the works, along with a couple of folded business cards of Jim Ellis's service manager used to shim the right side headlight assembly because a couple of small bolts and their nuts probably vibrated loose, and it was easier to do that than to do the fix correctly.

I can't help but wonder how much the previous owner was shagged for these repairs.

The upside is that I finally tried Oil Hammer's recommendation on how to move the radiator carried off the front of the car without having it hang on the hoses to safely give yourself that room you really want so you can get to the alternator or a/c compressor. Now, if we can just figure out an easy way to pry out stubborn alternators, I'll be a happy man.

And now, the promised photos! Click the thumbs for a larger image.

The junkyard unit did not have the proper pulley.


And it came with the easy-release (read: broken) socket!

This is about how much extra room you can get in between the radiator fans and the engine accessories.

By doing this: (thanks, Oil Hammer!)

And last, but not least, what some service people do with business cards. Those 2 oval shaped brass liners should have a small bolt with a small nut on the other side. Looks like these 2 got away. No worries, at Jim Ellis VW, the service manager's business cards solve the problem right away!


Cheers,

PH

 

[drucifer]

For the cost of a stamp send the cards back to Atlanta. See what shenanigans ensue.

 

[03GolfTDI]

Jim Ellis has a pretty good reputation around here across all of the brands they sell and their Chamblee location VW service department is one of the best in the area.

Just because you found some business cards stuffed in the front clip does not justify the accusation they are installing junk yard parts on their cars coming in for service. Do you really think a VW franchise dealer is sending techs out to part out Volkswagen's at the junkyard to stock their parts department?!?!

While I am not defending the stuffing of business cards to shim up a body fitment issue, the accusation that a dealer is raiding junkyards for parts to save a buck is another issue. Do you have evidence that Jim Ellis did the alternator or are you just assuming? How do you know this was not taken to a shady corner store mechanic?

I will be more than happy to forward this thread to my service advisor at Jim Ellis so they can research the junkyard parts they installed on your car.

 

[STDOUBT]

Maybe it was just a Certified Used Part

 

[Powder Hound]

...
Just because you found some business cards stuffed in the front clip does not justify the accusation they are installing junk yard parts on their cars coming in for service. Do you really think a VW franchise dealer is sending techs out to part out Volkswagen's at the junkyard to stock their parts department?!?! ...

You are correct in that the alternator may not have been done at that dealer. It could be that the previous owner took it in to the dealer, and after recovering from the estimated charge for repairing the alternator problem, went elsewhere. It is also true that the car had a pretty steady history of taking the car to that dealer for service; and further, I have never heard of any indy shop or shade-tree type to report to carfax.

Oh, and if you read my original post carefully (before my recent edits), you will note that I did not directly accuse your dear dealer of doing the r&r on the alternator. This would be particularly so if VW, and I would bet they do, requires dealers to use all VW new and remaufactured parts in their repairs to VWs (i.e. all parts for VWs must come from VW, unless VW will not supply the parts). I did directly name them for the other repair, however, maybe there is some shade-tree twit using business cards from someplace they don't like. It is a little harder to argue that one, however.

Cheers,

PH

 

[Metal Man]

If you remove the passenger side radiator fan you have enough room to work the alternator out without messing with the front clip or rad support.

 

[Powder Hound]

It wasn't whether there is room, it is that after you pull the 2 mounting bolts out, the darned thing is still stuck in place.

 

[adjat84th]

A cordless drill with 1/4" and 3/8" adapter bits works wonders for all the small fasteners! I never use my air tools because I prefer feel sometimes, but the drill is almost always out when doing any work.

 

[Powder Hound]

Amen to that. I tried one from my neighbor today. Went to the local Lowe's to get a card with those 2 adapters, then went to town. Today's task was r&r the a/c compressor and receiver-drier. The cordless drill really cut the job down to size. I think your thoughts inspired me via the ether even before you wrote the message. Many thanks!

PH

 

[Ol'Rattler]

I probably should have named this thread 'Why I do my own wrenching'. So, since my wife's car died yesterday and she had to get a jump to get home, I did some quick checking and decided the best repair would be to replace the alternator. The battery is a good one and should not have died so fast, so I am going to give it the benefit of the doubt. Particularly since the car started with 1 hour of charging at 12 amps and when tested with the engine running,

there was only 11.16 volts measured across the battery terminals. I'd say that's pretty good evidence that the alternator just isn't doing its job.
The thing is, it's a New Beetle. Ugh. So. Blinkin'. Many. Fasteners. to get the front clip off. Yikes. There must be 200 on each side. There's more it seems to me, because I don't have power tools. The real number is 'only' about 36 on each side, or maybe a few more, but. I mean, seriously, my wrists are really complaining right now. And after 12 hours, I'm still about 2 hours away from finishing.
But I digress...

The real reason I posted this is not to display my snail's pacing at auto repair, but instead to show a couple of good reasons why I don't like to go to a Stealer. Or indy mechanics.
The previous owner of this car did, and probably paid dearly. Jim Ellis in Atlanta's name is not found on lists of dealer that do superb work for very reasonable prices.
How do I know? (Edit: I don't have direct evidence of who installed the junkyard alternator. Happy 3golf?) Well, for one thing, the alternator that died is not the original. It came from a junkyard. It had a pulley solid mounted - that is, no overrun bearing (or sprag clutch, I've never cut one apart so I'm not sure).

The socket for the stator current was broken. And, well this one is a little nit-picky because the manuals got a 120amp unit while I believe the autos got a 90 amp unit since they don't have coolant heating glow plugs (this is an ALH vintage unit) and the junk that was installed in my wife's NB was a 90-amp. It's an auto, but really. It is so easy and no difference in price, really, to just install a 120 amp unit, so why not?
To add to the list of slip-shod work, there was actually a cigarette butt tucked into the works, along with a couple of folded business cards of Jim Ellis's service manager used to shim the right side headlight assembly because a couple of small bolts and their nuts probably vibrated loose, and it was easier to do that than to do the fix correctly.

I can't help but wonder how much the previous owner was shagged for these repairs.
The upside is that I finally tried Oil Hammer's recommendation on how to move the radiator carried off the front of the car without having it hang on the hoses to safely give yourself that room you really want so you can get to the alternator or a/c compressor. Now, if we can just figure out an easy way to pry out stubborn alternators, I'll be a happy man.
And now, the promised photos! Click the thumbs for a larger image.
The junkyard unit did not have the proper pulley.


And it came with the easy-release (read: broken) socket!

This is about how much extra room you can get in between the radiator fans and the engine accessories.

By doing this: (thanks, Oil Hammer!)

And last, but not least, what some service people do with business cards. Those 2 oval shaped brass liners should have a small bolt with a small nut on the other side. Looks like these 2 got away. No worries, at Jim Ellis VW, the service manager's business cards solve the problem right away!

Cheers,
PH

So somebody installed a junkyard alternator, possibly the PO? How does that give you probable cause to trash a VW dealer? I do not particularly like dealers, but I would never trash them for something they didn't do.

 

[Powder Hound]

I love people like you who have no critical reading skills, and also can't read the entire body. Try re-reading post #5. If you don't get it, then read it again.

 

[Ol'Rattler]

I'm still trying to figure out the correlation between all the alternator pictures you posted And your complaint. The business card thing certainly is a valid complaint. The fact that someone installed a gasser alternator from a junk yard has nothing to do with the dealer and is off topic for the stated subject in your title.

A better title: Alternator Woes And A reason I'm Done With Dealers

Peace.............

 

[Lightflyer1]

For someone too cheap to do the alternator repair correctly, I wouldn't put it past them to use the dealer cards in the glove box, from a previous repair or estimate, to shim that setup themselves. The whole thing looks like an amateurish DIY repair and not a dealer repair anyway. Generally I have found that dealers have no problem installing as many new parts as they think are needed and charging you for them.

 

[andreigbs]

snip... Generally I have found that dealers have no problem installing as many new parts as they think are needed and charging you for them.

^^^ This.

I've bought from and had my past VWs serviced at Jim Ellis several times, and there's a reason we typically refer to them as stealerships. It's not an insult, it's just a fact.

Both the shim job with the business cards and the FUBAR'ed alternator are 99% likely previous owner mekanix extraordinaire jobs.

Now, had this been about how JE gave you a $2k repair estimate and you fixed it yourself for $300, I would then agree with the title.

Good luck getting it back together. I hate NBs with a vengeange in general, they love to draw blood and curses.

 

[Powder Hound]

Agreed, but my wife loves hers and it's the only way I can get her to drive a diesel. Now if there was just some way to get her to use her left foot on the 3rd pedal...

(like that's ever going to happen)

Cheers,

PH

 

[legendman]

Luckily I can fix my own junk.
How about this invoice for a new cam in a 05 Golf. $3800+

 

[Lightflyer1]

It is what it is. Doesn't seem that out of line to me for what got done. TB and cam replacement. Labor rate at $109 isn't bad at all IMHO. What would someone else charge to do the same work using OEM parts? 12.5 hours labor.

 

[legendman]

It is what it is. Doesn't seem that out of line to me for what got done. TB and cam replacement. Labor rate at $109 isn't bad at all IMHO. What would someone else charge to do the same work using OEM parts? 12.5 hours labor.

I'd junk it before spending half of what that invoice is.

 

[Lightflyer1]

Most would junk it as well. That doesn't necessarily mean the bill is out of line though. There are those who would rather fix it for $4k than buy new for $25k +/-. Even a used car at $4k is a gamble. I bought a 2003 Beetle with a TB issue and had the engine repaired by runonbeer and spent twice that probably fixing it up. It was sweet and the only reason I sold it was runonbeer was moving away and I wanted the stop sale Beetle I now have due to warranty.

 

[soot1]

I'd junk it before spending half of what that invoice is.

Some people simply adhere to what Lightflyer1 said - they'd rather spend $4k on fixing an old but mechanically simple vehicle such as the 2005 Golf in question, than blow $25k on a new and much more complicated car. With a new cam and timing belt (I assume the water pump and all the idlers were replaced as well), the vehicle may go another 100k miles without giving the owner any trouble. On average, that would be additional 8 years of service for spending $4k. That's not such a bad idea. Of course, you'll be driving a not-so-appealing 14-year old car, but some people don't mind. And, of course, in those 8 years, a lot of other things can break, but that's the risk anyone driving a vehicle of that age has to live with.

 

[Lightflyer1]

I also keep a second car/truck on hand when I can (can't resist selling for a profit). My current extra is a 2000 Silverado Z71 4x4 that was a one owner hardly used truck ($3,500). Bed looks unused. It's biggest drawback was a dent in the side (pop-a-dent, $100) and the leather interior was ruined (replaced for $1k installed). I added some new headlight housings and new speakers for the front doors (blown) and new/used steering wheel. Maybe $5k in it and have already had people stopping me and asking if it is for sale. Been offered $7k to $7.5k several times already, but the title isn't back yet. If you have a car/truck in good shape it is sometimes wise to just fix it and keep on keeping on. Other times it is just required to ditch it as it just isn't worth it.

I would have bought this truck with a bad engine and swapped one in, if it needed it. It all depends on the condition of the rest of the car and what you are willing to pay for.

 

[ToBiN]

It is called dope because it does make you dumb.
Thinking outside the box is difficult for some. They're afraid they'll fall off the edge of the box and be lost to oblivion.

This kills me. Your sig is oxymoronic.
The whole premise of thinking outside of the box starts with alternative medicine. Also, don't believe everything the government tells you.