illigal?

jessica_rabbit

Veteran Member
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May 16, 2006
Location
886 2
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2002 Silver Manual Jetta Wagon (sold) *@*
Hi guys,
I've been told that dealers are not allowed to sell new TDIs to residents in NY. Is this true? I had the idea of buying a new TDI and drive it around till it hits 7k5 then register. But if this is the case, then... :mad:
Jess
 

quartersaw

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Location
Albany, NY
TDI
2002 Jetta Wagon, '96 B4V,'99 2 door Golf
jessica_rabbit said:
Hi guys,
I've been told that dealers are not allowed to sell new TDIs to residents in NY. Is this true? I had the idea of buying a new TDI and drive it around till it hits 7k5 then register. But if this is the case, then... :mad:
Jess
There is another loophole.If your car breaks down,or is wrecked in another state,you can buy a replacement vehicle without restriction. (which would include new TDI's)
Buy a $200 beater,take it over the border to one of the states that don't have the CARB restrictions on diesels and drain the oil out of it a few miles from a VW dealer.When it seizes,Have it towed to the dealership,and buy a 'replacement' car. You will now be able to title this brand new TDI in New York State....
 

jessica_rabbit

Veteran Member
Joined
May 16, 2006
Location
886 2
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2002 Silver Manual Jetta Wagon (sold) *@*
I thought about that

I read through DMV website and also saw that loophole. The thing is my current car is a 91 Ford and it is already beat up. If I drive to NH to visit a friend and it happens to break down... I don't think anyone would really ask why. It is such an old car. But, dealers in NH don't have TDIs in stock!!!!

Jess
 

Dave_D

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Joined
Jun 9, 2003
Location
Gaithersburg, MD, USA
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2015 Passat Titanium Beige six speed manual & Jetta, 1999.5, Tornado Red
You may need to go further than New Hampshire, as they are certainly aware of the CARB status and might resist selling you the vehicle. Were I in this situation I would go at least one state away from New York, such as Maryland or Virginia for such a purchase.

In another thread someone noted that any VW dealer who sells a non-CARB vehicle to a CARB state resident is subject to a "fine" by VW of $25,000! See this post for details:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=1292922&postcount=19
 

johnboy00

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2000
Location
Bridgewater,Ma.,USA
TDI
2005 Passat Wagon, 2004 Jetta, 2003 Jetta wagon
I had by brother-on-law register and drive my passat in Michigan util it hit 7,500 miles. This method requires a certain amount of "family trust".

John
 

danix

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Oct 5, 2000
Location
Raleigh, NC
TDI
None now. Former: 2011 335d, 2010 Jetta TDI, 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon. 99.5 Jetta TDI, 98 NB TDI, 3 different black 96 Passat TDI wagons.
It can be done Jessica, you just need to talk to the right people.

And no, you don't need to register a car before you can drive it, some states issue temp tags (NY does not, but FL and MD do, as does NJ and others).
 

daedalus

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Location
Pittstown NJ
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05 Variant TDI Black w/Gray
Contact Chris Farnham at VW of Langhorne PA. He is a club member, has helped a lot of folks here, knows what he is talking about, and is totally honest and aboveboard. He can make it happen for you!

Reach out for him at:
CFarnham@VWofLanghorne.com
215-741-4100
 

Dave_D

Veteran Member
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Jun 9, 2003
Location
Gaithersburg, MD, USA
TDI
2015 Passat Titanium Beige six speed manual & Jetta, 1999.5, Tornado Red
daedalus said:
Contact Chris Farnham at VW of Langhorne PA. He is a club member, has helped a lot of folks here, knows what he is talking about, and is totally honest and aboveboard. He can make it happen for you!

Reach out for him at:
CFarnham@VWofLanghorne.com
215-741-4100
I'm not so sure about that, it is Chris' post I am citing above about the $25K "fine" from VW for selling a new TDI to a CARB state resident! Perhaps he might have a good used TDI to sell her.
 

rotarykid

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Location
Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
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1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
Dave_D said:
I'm not so sure about that, it is Chris' post I am citing above about the $25K "fine" from VW for selling a new TDI to a CARB state resident! Perhaps he might have a good used TDI to sell her.
The $25K fine esentually means that VW will take a car off of the dealers allotment list as a punishment . Many of the Dealers in CARB states fail to train machanics to work on TDI-PDs as they were never sold in those states . This is what the fine is related to if you sell it you have to pay for the training of VW personal to repair it in CARB states .

If there was a 45 state dealer flooding a CARB state with new TDI-PDs VWofA would be forced to pay for the machanics to do warantee service .
 

jessica_rabbit

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Thanks for the tips guys. I think I would be totally lost without you. I've learned a lot in this site. THANKS!! Really!!

Jess
 

danix

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Location
Raleigh, NC
TDI
None now. Former: 2011 335d, 2010 Jetta TDI, 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon. 99.5 Jetta TDI, 98 NB TDI, 3 different black 96 Passat TDI wagons.
I've spoken with at least 3 out of state dealers that don't care where the car is ultimately going, as long as it's sold to a local resident. Book a room at the Holiday Inn, that's now your in-state address. Or use a friend's address, relative, etc. As long as your cash is green, most dealers don't really care, provided they can't get in trouble.
 

rudyr

New member
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Quick question - is the issue the dealer selling it or the state registering? If a dealer say in MD is willing to sell me a 3k mile car knowing it will be registered in MA without issue - can I buy it and now have no problem getting it registered?

I guess I'm sort of confused where the 'check' is done (that the car is suitable for registration - i.e. > 7500 miles, purchased because car was broken down, etc.), at the dealer selling or somehow at the DMV?

Thanks in advance.
 

Harvieux

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Aug 15, 1998
Location
Whittier,CA-USA
TDI
06 A5 Pkg.2 w/navi & ASEP
danix said:
I've spoken with at least 3 out of state dealers that don't care where the car is ultimately going, as long as it's sold to a local resident. Book a room at the Holiday Inn, that's now your in-state address. Or use a friend's address, relative, etc. As long as your cash is green, most dealers don't really care, provided they can't get in trouble.
Dan, There are big problems with having an out of state resident purchasing a non-compliant TDI on your behalf. First, that vehicle will be the responsibility of the person buying for you. Insurance will have to be obtained in his/her name, sales tax will have to be paid (except in OR), and the registration will have to be paid. Legally, this vehicle can not be driven by the resident of the CARB state via the out of state tags and reg. for more than (10) days and is considered a felony in CA if caught and invesigated doing so with a non-compliant unit. Even if one isn't caught B4 the 7500 miles are obtained, you will then have to pay the Peoples Republic of California their unconscionable sales tax rate on top of the sales tax already paid in the non-CARB state. I like the broken down beater loop hole better but, you must also be very careful that all the tee's are crossed and I's are dotted because the chance of investigation in such matters may be great. Besides, it truly is fraud in every way, shape, or form. Later!
 
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danix

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I'm sure you are well versed in CA DMV law Harv.

The law provides exemption for those moving in from out of state.
Well, as I read the CA law, I can bring in a 49 state car, provided that I already owned it before becoming a CA resident. I am now a CA resident, so I can no longer buy a new TDI, but my wife can, as long as I can get it registered in NY.

NY DMV is probably much less detailed than CA in these matters.
I think 95% of the battle is buying the car. Once you get it in state, it's pretty trivial to get it registered. Worst case, I "move" to my brother in law's house in NJ, register the car, and then "move" back in 7500 miles.

I don't see it as fraud as long as you are working the system. Having the odometer bumped to 7500 miles before registering the car and then resetting it once it's registered, that's fraud (yes, this can be done, with frightening ease).
 

Harvieux

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Joined
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Location
Whittier,CA-USA
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[quite=Danix]I don't see it as fraud as long as you are working the system. Having the odometer bumped to 7500 miles before registering the car and then resetting it once it's registered, that's fraud (yes, this can be done, with frightening ease).[/quote]

Dan, It is fraud by "knowingly" taking a vehicle out of state and creating an "intensional" breakdown that renders the vehicle inop. to a point where this "intensional" breakdown exceeds the value of said vehicle only for the "intent" to purchase a non-compliant TDI. I would almost bet that the VW dealer one tried to pull this shananaghan on would refuse to do so due to the liability risk involved with both the People's Republic and VWOA. The fines can be brutal. But, who would really know and I think the loop hole is easy to do with little risk while they strap you down and perform water board torture on your arse;)! The problem with the bump the miles to >7500 B4 registration would be if they decide to investigate and go into the ecu mileage field and discover that the cluster display and the ecu reading don't jive. This would most likely be the second felony count with one being Federal odometer fraud. Yes, you are correct on the moving in from another state part but, only if the vehicle is currently registered in another state to begin with. Later!
 
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TornadoRed

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Saint Paul (ex-San Diego)
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danix said:
The law provides exemption for those moving in from out of state.
Well, as I read the CA law, I can bring in a 49 state car, provided that I already owned it before becoming a CA resident. I am now a CA resident, so I can no longer buy a new TDI, but my wife can, as long as I can get it registered in NY.

NY DMV is probably much less detailed than CA in these matters.
I think 95% of the battle is buying the car. Once you get it in state, it's pretty trivial to get it registered. Worst case, I "move" to my brother in law's house in NJ, register the car, and then "move" back in 7500 miles.
"Moving" to another state is not a simple matter. In California, you're a resident if: you have a residence, you have a job, you have a CDL, you have kids who attend school, and there may be a couple others.

If you have a residence in another state, then you can register it there. But I wouldn't count on being able to register elsewhere, then "move" back to a CARB state and registering with less than 7500 miles.
 

No Exit

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Herndon, VA
How did this turn into a discussion about CA law and taxes? The OP was asking if it was illegal to buy a new TDI in to register in NY.
 

danix

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Location
Raleigh, NC
TDI
None now. Former: 2011 335d, 2010 Jetta TDI, 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon. 99.5 Jetta TDI, 98 NB TDI, 3 different black 96 Passat TDI wagons.
No Exit said:
How did this turn into a discussion about CA law and taxes? The OP was asking if it was illegal to buy a new TDI in to register in NY.
Because the other states like NY follow the CA guidelines (well, I know NY does, not sure about MA and others).
I'm also mentioning things from my perspective because I live in NY and am in the process of moving to CA.
 

rugerp89ipsc

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Location
Madison, WI
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06 jetta
ok, so CA and NY are not legal, what are the other 3.

This will sound funny, but I bought a new 06 in WI, and will move in 9 months, doubt I wil get 7.5 on it by then. This has me concerned.

sorry for the hijack, I will head over to the dmv site now...
 

david_594

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Cheshire, CT
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2000 Jetta GLS Silver
Isnt this whole thing pretty simple and easy. NH isnt a carb state. NH doesnt charge sales tax. NH does not require insurance on vehicles!!!!(right?)

So you have someone buy a new car TDI in NH, put 7500 miles on it, then sell it to the person who wants it. It doesnt cost the person anything more then the extra registration fees.

And 7500 miles can be put on a car rather quickly if you know what you are doing...
 

TornadoRed

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rugerp89ipsc said:
ok, so CA and NY are not legal, what are the other 3.

This will sound funny, but I bought a new 06 in WI, and will move in 9 months, doubt I wil get 7.5 on it by then. This has me concerned.
Stop worrying.

If you own a relatively new TDI, and you live in a non-CARB state, and you move to a CARB state, you will have no problem registering it.

But if you already lived in a CARB state, then you can't just go somewhere else and buy one with less than 7500 miles.

CARB stands for California Air Resources Board. The other CARB states are New York, Massachusetts, Vermont, and Maine. (But Maine is actually somewhat lenient, I've heard Mainers really can go to another state and buy a low-mileage TDI.)
 
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