If you are considering buyback which cars are you looking at as replacements?

speedrye

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Joined
Jul 27, 2016
Location
Central NC
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13 JSW DSG, 14 JSW DSG
First thing I do when it snows is to start testing the road. When safe, I slam the brakes to see how the road is. I'll do this often on a journey if it is still snowing or I change to a different sort of road. Helps you get comfortable with the road. And I always defer to the weather gods and don't tempt them by driving like it was summer.
^^ Best idea in inclement weather right here! I do the same. I've got great traction accelerating usually, but the brake test is the easiest to figure out actual conditions. Being in NC, winter events aren't common, so my biggest threat is people. Thankfully I go to work well before others hit the road, so I'm usually safe.
 

bizzle

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Joined
May 21, 2013
Location
Southern California
TDI
2015 GSW SEL (totaled), 2013 Touareg Executive
This weekend hoping to go drive a Volt and Malibu Hybrid. If neither one to my liking it'll be back to drawing board.
I drove a Volt and while it was nice I don't see how you'll think it's something you can live with coming from a sportwagen.
 

bizzle

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Joined
May 21, 2013
Location
Southern California
TDI
2015 GSW SEL (totaled), 2013 Touareg Executive
Comparing all-seasons on AWD to dedicated snow tires on 2WD is a useless comparison if you're trying to test the differences between AWD and 2WD. It tells you about the deficiencies of all-season tires.

That's like testing bald tires on a car with ABS against slightly worn tires without ABS and concluding that ABS is pointless because the bald tires and ABS had a longer stopping distance and less control.
 

chadbag

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Jul 8, 2013
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Utah
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2x 2013 JSW (1 manual BOUGHT BACK 12/20/16, 1 DSG BOUGHT BACK 1/14/17), Audi A3 e-tron gas-plugin-hybrid, gas Volvo V60
I don't slam the brakes initially, I press them, then press again harder, then hit them hard. I also wiggle the steering wheel back and forth to see how the car is responding. And like you, I do it often.
Yeah, I'll move the wheel back and forth and try different braking patterns. Everyone should do this in snow to practice reacting to what can happen and to get used to and understand what can happen. Been doing it for over 30 years and it has gotten me through lots of bad weather driving.
 

tdiesling

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May 11, 2004
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Fort Lauderdale,FL
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2014 Audi A7 Tdi, 2016 Mercedes Sprinter (CDI) 2500 4x4 (DBA as a 2017 Roadtrek SS Agile), (Sold: 2000 Golf Tdi, 1985 Quantum Td, 1980 Rabbit Diesel (totaled)) 2012 Golf Tdi (Emissions purgatory)

phrinda

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Joined
Jul 4, 2011
Location
Connecticut
TDI
2011 Golf TDI- bought back
I also wiggle the steering wheel back and forth to see how the car is responding.
When I was a kid, after I got my license, I would wait for the roads to empty after the snow got heavy. Then I would take my beater of a Taurus wagon out for "practice". I would drive down a wide empty street and then cut the wheel and apply the parking brake. Once I did a 180 I'd pop the brake and cut the wheel back to straighten out. Little did I know that screwing around like that taught me a lot about controlling a vehicle on the snow. And it was a lot of fun.

For me the ever-living debate about AWD/Not AWD seems pointless. The limiting factor in the whole equation is always the human being. The best tools will do nothing for the person that doesn't understand the situation. In my opinion, I see no reason not to use the best equipment I can for the given situation. The real factor involved is whether or not I know the vehicle's and my own limitations.
 

grawk

Veteran Member
Joined
May 12, 2012
Location
Oak Ridge, TN
TDI
'14 JSW TDI (used)
Comparing all-seasons on AWD to dedicated snow tires on 2WD is a useless comparison if you're trying to test the differences between AWD and 2WD. It tells you about the deficiencies of all-season tires.
That's like testing bald tires on a car with ABS against slightly worn tires without ABS and concluding that ABS is pointless because the bald tires and ABS had a longer stopping distance and less control.
or it's like comparing spending $X+1000 for a 2wd car with snow tires, or $X+5000 for an AWD car.
 

ChimneyJim

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Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Location
Northern Illinois
TDI
'15 SportWagen SEL
I drove a Volt and while it was nice I don't see how you'll think it's something you can live with coming from a sportwagen.


Could be. I've never even opened the door on one but am interested in the economy. I've had a full spectrum on my list and everything ends up being a compromise. I know that I could keep it but have weighed my reasons and plan to take the buyback anytime from inception to this time next year.
 

bizzle

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2013
Location
Southern California
TDI
2015 GSW SEL (totaled), 2013 Touareg Executive
Could be. I've never even opened the door on one but am interested in the economy. I've had a full spectrum on my list and everything ends up being a compromise. I know that I could keep it but have weighed my reasons and plan to take the buyback anytime from inception to this time next year.
You might also consider a Hyundai Sonata Hybrid. I test drove one of those after the Volt and it was very nice with fantastic incentives (and an industry leading warranty). The Kia Optima Hybrid is the same car, I believe, but intended to be a more youthful style.

I looked at those larger models because after driving dozens of cars my wife finally said how she didn't understand why none of them matched the interior space of the Passat we were loaned while VW fixed our oilpan. :eek:

I told her that's because we are looking at the wrong segment! If I had known she wanted a mid-sized...anyway, best decision we've come up with is to give the JSW back and just make do with the eGolf and bug.

One final consideration is to wait for a generation or two of Audi eTrons, wait for this year's models to come off lease, or see if VW is going to bring some hybrids over here (they just killed the Jetta).
 

ChimneyJim

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Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Location
Northern Illinois
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'15 SportWagen SEL
You might also consider a Hyundai Sonata Hybrid. I test drove one of those after the Volt and it was very nice with fantastic incentives (and an industry leading warranty). The Kia Optima Hybrid is the same car, I believe, but intended to be a more youthful style.



I looked at those larger models because after driving dozens of cars my wife finally said how she didn't understand why none of them matched the interior space of the Passat we were loaned while VW fixed our oilpan. :eek:



I told her that's because we are looking at the wrong segment! If I had known she wanted a mid-sized...anyway, best decision we've come up with is to give the JSW back and just make do with the eGolf and bug.



One final consideration is to wait for a generation or two of Audi eTrons, wait for this year's models to come off lease, or see if VW is going to bring some hybrids over here (they just killed the Jetta).


I'll have to the Sonata to my list. I like the etron but then my brain says if your going to spend that why not get a Charger Scat Pack and damn the economy! I need a fleet depending on my mood.
 

bizzle

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Joined
May 21, 2013
Location
Southern California
TDI
2015 GSW SEL (totaled), 2013 Touareg Executive
I'll have to the Sonata to my list. I like the etron but then my brain says if your going to spend that why not get a Charger Scat Pack and damn the economy! I need a fleet depending on my mood.
The Sonata comes in a typical hybrid and also the PHEV. We're on solar so I only looked at and drove PHEVs. I think the eTron has woefully outdated in car entertainment and too short of range for the asking price. That's one of the reasons I'm considering waiting for a few years to see what comes off lease or is offered new then.

I also looked at a Chrysler Pacifica. In a few months, they'll be offering a 30mile PHEV version. It was actually very nice, too. My wife was pretty adamant about not wanting a minivan but she thought it was interesting when she finally sat in one.

The main issue is we just need an eco-box and I'm not about to spend $50K for one. When I want to piss on the environment I take my legendary BMW to the track :D
 

flyfishsick

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Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Location
usa
TDI
---
I'm not a fan of awd. I was told when I had my Subaru that if 1 tire ever got ruined that I would need to replace all four tires on a four-wheel-drive vehicle? You could not just replace one tire or two tires you had to replace all four tires? By replacing only two tires he would ruin the transmission. There was a fuse on a Subaru that you had to remove if you ever use the spare tire
 

dopechess

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Jul 28, 2016
Location
cali
TDI
2013 A3
2007 Touareg V10 Diesel. I heard that cost to maintain might be a killer though and finding a low mile one would be difficult.
 

bring

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Joined
Jun 21, 2015
Location
Boston
TDI
'15 Jetta SEL, DSG
Comparing all-seasons on AWD to dedicated snow tires on 2WD is a useless comparison if you're trying to test the differences between AWD and 2WD. It tells you about the deficiencies of all-season tires.
You don't say....
 

speedrye

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2016
Location
Central NC
TDI
13 JSW DSG, 14 JSW DSG
I'm not a fan of awd. I was told when I had my Subaru that if 1 tire ever got ruined that I would need to replace all four tires on a four-wheel-drive vehicle? You could not just replace one tire or two tires you had to replace all four tires? By replacing only two tires he would ruin the transmission. There was a fuse on a Subaru that you had to remove if you ever use the spare tire
Nah, that only applies if all four wheels are locked to the engine. Subaru uses open diffs, so it's really only a 2-wheel drive (one front and one rear wheel). Of course, it's always a good idea to always have equal sized tires on a vehicle since power will follow the path of least resistance. Sadly, a Subaru doesn't have much more traction than a 2wd vehicle with a good limited slip diff in it since both are only driving two wheels. These electronic traction control things help some by applying the brakes to the spinning wheel, but they aren't a real substitute for a mechanical LSD or locker.
 

bennybmn

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Joined
Mar 17, 2012
Location
Long Island, NY
TDI
(Formerly) '11 Jetta 6 speed, Alltrack 6MT
The best vehicle I ever had in snow was my 1980 Saab 900 with studded snow tires. I passed so many 4WD SUV's off the road. I miss my old Saab, but parts were too expensive in the early 90's before the web and eBay, especially after I moved down to Alabama.
Before Subaru took over Vermont (It's the only state where they beat Honda in sales), Saab was the token Vermonter car, at least in Southern VT. My high school parking lot was probably 30% Saab, another 30 VW, and the rest mixed. Great cars back in the day. Also the first car I ever sat in with seat heaters!
The thing about looking for a replacement car is that I wouldn't mind AWD really. And being as there are so few true wagon choices out there, I looked around at some cute utes, like the CX-5. Hey look you can get it with a stick!! But not a stick AND awd... Seems silly to me. It still gets worse mileage than a real wagon, probably less space, and you don't even get any benefits of an SUV other than a little ground clearance. And with all the chin spoilers and aero doodads these days, that's not much either.
 

flyfishsick

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Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Location
usa
TDI
---
Nah, that only applies if all four wheels are locked to the engine. Subaru uses open diffs, so it's really only a 2-wheel drive (one front and one rear wheel). Of course, it's always a good idea to always have equal sized tires on a vehicle since power will follow the path of least resistance. Sadly, a Subaru doesn't have much more traction than a 2wd vehicle with a good limited slip diff in it since both are only driving two wheels. These electronic traction control things help some by applying the brakes to the spinning wheel, but they aren't a real substitute for a mechanical LSD or locker.

I think you maybe wrong about this? I was told and even in the Subaru and Toyota service manual says different ??? Say specifically tell you to remove a fuse to uncouple the center differential??? That all four tires must be the same with the same tread depth???
 

speedrye

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2016
Location
Central NC
TDI
13 JSW DSG, 14 JSW DSG
I think you maybe wrong about this? I was told and even in the Subaru and Toyota service manual says different ??? Say specifically tell you to remove a fuse to uncouple the center differential??? That all four tires must be the same with the same tread depth???
I guess it depends on the center differential per vehicle. I think Subaru uses four different center diff configurations depending on model and transmission. So long as the front and rear diffs aren't locked to each other, you should be fine. Honestly, you don't want to drive anything with a locked center diff on dry pavement since the front wheels and rear wheels naturally turn at different rates any time you're going around a corner, though it's more pronounced on tight turns. Most center diffs are unlocked for street use though and the viscous coupling is designed to handle different speeds front to rear.
On my AWD Toyota, the center diff is usually open, as are the front and rear diffs. Different tires sizes aren't great, but they aren't hurting anything. I'll only lock the center diff in slippery conditions so that the drivetrain isn't in a bind. The rear rarely ever gets locked since it simply isn't needed. Unfortunately, I don't have a front locker... yet.

On my 2015 WRX, I think the tread depth was supposed to match within 1/16" of one another, but I don't recall any notes like that on my Toyota.
With all of that said, I still would try to maintain tires with similar tread depth.

Now that I think about it, I'll bet a lot of the tire restrictions on newer cars are due to the wheel speed sensors more so than any potential mechanical problems. Those wheel speed sensors can be a PITA when they don't read the same.
 
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SemperFido

Active member
Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Dayton, OH but formerly everywhere
TDI
2010 Audio Q7 Prestige 3.0 TDI
Would be cheaper than a new Q7.
Do you like the Q7? It has a 3rd room so I may consider it.
Sorry it took so long I must have missed your post. Love the Q7 bought it used but really enjoy it. 3rd row is really only functional for kids but I have stuffed a couple of adults back there on occasion. Most of the time the seats are down and that gives us a lot of room.
 

POBOX2897

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 25, 2014
Location
Hudson Valley
TDI
2014 JSW 6-speed
Nah, that only applies if all four wheels are locked to the engine. Subaru uses open diffs, so it's really only a 2-wheel drive (one front and one rear wheel). Of course, it's always a good idea to always have equal sized tires on a vehicle since power will follow the path of least resistance. Sadly, a Subaru doesn't have much more traction than a 2wd vehicle with a good limited slip diff in it since both are only driving two wheels. These electronic traction control things help some by applying the brakes to the spinning wheel, but they aren't a real substitute for a mechanical LSD or locker.
Actually, Subaru recommends having four tires of equal size, identical tread, and identical wear. Replacement tire(s) should be within 1/4-inch of tire circumference or about 2/32-inch of each other in remaining tread depth.

And, the FWD fuse on 4EAT cars is definitely a thing. Flat tire on the front? Jack car up, remove good rear wheel, replace with donut, lower car, jack up front, replace front flat with good wheel from rear, insert spare fuse into the FWD fuse holder near the firewall. Manual transmission vehicles are not subject to this fuse/tire dance. I'm not sure what their flat tire on a CVT or 5 speed automatic policy is for sure. Here is a snippet from a subaru owners manual:

 
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speedrye

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2016
Location
Central NC
TDI
13 JSW DSG, 14 JSW DSG
Wow, that tire change would suck. I might actually have AAA in one of those cases.

Of course, the manufacturer will tell you that in the manual as a blanket statement, but I'm looking at the actual operation of the diffs and whether or not it is really dangerous. In a viscous type of limited slip, having mismatched tires will result in some heat buildup, but no more so than driving down twisty mountain roads would. Driving on a donut would be much worse than tires with slightly varying tread, and I highly recommend avoiding donut driving at all costs. More than anything, I'd keep four matching tires on something to keep the electronics happy. Set off the wheel speed sensors in my Toyota and traction control, stability control, ABS, etc are all disabled. Same thing happens if the steering wheel isn't aligned properly.

In the end, I think everyone agrees that tires should be matched, but I wouldn't be concerned about tearing up the AWD system in most vehicles if my wear pattern wasn't even.
 

flyfishsick

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Location
usa
TDI
---
Also with an awd if you get towed with anything other then a flat bed your screwed!!!! So if you get towed and don't know if they used a flat bed look for some expensive drive train repairs. That is why I DO NOT LIKE AWD!
 

rjacobs

Active member
Joined
May 6, 2015
Location
Dallas, TX
TDI
2015 Jetta S 6mt
I guess it depends on the center differential per vehicle. I think Subaru uses four different center diff configurations depending on model and transmission. So long as the front and rear diffs aren't locked to each other, you should be fine. Honestly, you don't want to drive anything with a locked center diff on dry pavement since the front wheels and rear wheels naturally turn at different rates any time you're going around a corner, though it's more pronounced on tight turns. Most center diffs are unlocked for street use though and the viscous coupling is designed to handle different speeds front to rear.
On my AWD Toyota, the center diff is usually open, as are the front and rear diffs. Different tires sizes aren't great, but they aren't hurting anything. I'll only lock the center diff in slippery conditions so that the drivetrain isn't in a bind. The rear rarely ever gets locked since it simply isn't needed. Unfortunately, I don't have a front locker... yet.

On my 2015 WRX, I think the tread depth was supposed to match within 1/16" of one another, but I don't recall any notes like that on my Toyota.
With all of that said, I still would try to maintain tires with similar tread depth.

Now that I think about it, I'll bet a lot of the tire restrictions on newer cars are due to the wheel speed sensors more so than any potential mechanical problems. Those wheel speed sensors can be a PITA when they don't read the same.
Are you talking about a Toyota TRUCK with 4 wheel drive as opposed to a Subaru with AWD? Completely different system that works completely differently and you really cant think of them in the same way.

A transfer case or as subaru calls it a "center differential" is different than the differentials in an axle. I believe MOST subaru's are technically "locked" in the center diff/transfer case as they send power 50/50 all the time, the exception being the STI with its DCCD, although its usefulness IMO is questionable as I never felt a difference in any of my STI's from full "open" to full "lock". You are right in that most subarus AXLE differentials are full open. I believe some have at least a rear limit slip and the STI has front and rear, which again, are of limited use as IMO they dont work great.

Needing tires on an AWD car(all AWD cars) to be pretty closely matched is definitely legit as you will tear up the center differential/transfer case if you drive for any distance with a tire difference front to rear. I wont say 2/32 will cause things to blow up, but Subaru(and other AWD manufacturers) I believe all say the same number which means they all independently found the limit before damage occurs, which is probably 2x the 2/32 difference honestly.

Its definitely a thing. Would it cause me to NOT buy an AWD car because of some freak thing like that? Nope. Would it make me want to buy a wheel and tire warranty/road hazard with specific language that stated the fact the car was AWD and if something happened all the tread needed to be within 2/32(or whatever said manufacturer states)? yea probably.
 

bubbagumpshrimp

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Location
Virginia
TDI
'13 Jetta TDI
Also with an awd if you get towed with anything other then a flat bed your screwed!!!! So if you get towed and don't know if they used a flat bed look for some expensive drive train repairs. That is why I DO NOT LIKE AWD!
It's not that difficult. You just tell the tow company that you want a flat bed. If you request one, that's what they'll send...because they want to get paid. I did that with lowered and AWD vehicles over the years and never had an issue getting a flatbed.
 

RoundHouse

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Joined
May 23, 2001
Location
Ga USA
Hmm. These are good reasons. Thinking of doing the same. Oddly enough, I can't get the settlement site to edit my choice to Buyback from Emissions Modification. I left it on that page and never hit Submit. Have tried it a bunch of times- always resets to Emissions Modification. More sketchiness from VW. On eterna-hold waiting to get a human to do it . . .


Clear the cookies in your computer and
Reboot


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RoundHouse

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Joined
May 23, 2001
Location
Ga USA
This weekend hoping to go drive a Volt and Malibu Hybrid. If neither one to my liking it'll be back to drawing board.


Friend of mine bought a volt because it qualifies as an alternative fuel vehicle license plate which allows use of the car pool
Lane with no passengers only the driver

Saves 50 minutes each way on his commute
Plus the volt payment is less than he was spending on gas in his F-150 for his 700 mile a week commute


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halfast3

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2010
Location
usually in Oregon
TDI
2011 Golf TDI DSG
^^ Best idea in inclement weather right here! I do the same. I've got great traction accelerating usually, but the brake test is the easiest to figure out actual conditions. Being in NC, winter events aren't common, so my biggest threat is people. Thankfully I go to work well before others hit the road, so I'm usually safe.
We call it a High Bozo Factor :p
 

halfast3

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Sep 6, 2010
Location
usually in Oregon
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2011 Golf TDI DSG
When I was a kid, after I got my license, I would wait for the roads to empty after the snow got heavy. Then I would take my beater of a Taurus wagon out for "practice". I would drive down a wide empty street and then cut the wheel and apply the parking brake. Once I did a 180 I'd pop the brake and cut the wheel back to straighten out. Little did I know that screwing around like that taught me a lot about controlling a vehicle on the snow. And it was a lot of fun.
For me the ever-living debate about AWD/Not AWD seems pointless. The limiting factor in the whole equation is always the human being. The best tools will do nothing for the person that doesn't understand the situation. In my opinion, I see no reason not to use the best equipment I can for the given situation. The real factor involved is whether or not I know the vehicle's and my own limitations.
As the old saying goes "you've got to be smarter that the tools you use."
 

speedrye

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2016
Location
Central NC
TDI
13 JSW DSG, 14 JSW DSG
Are you talking about a Toyota TRUCK with 4 wheel drive as opposed to a Subaru with AWD? Completely different system that works completely differently and you really cant think of them in the same way.
Very true, some of the Toyotas are much more similar to Audis using the torsen center instead of a more inferior (though cheaper) viscous coupling center used in many Subarus. The DCCD in the STI is closer to the torsen, but fancier with its clutch-type differential. None of them like mismatched tires, but there wouldn't be a difference in driving with slightly mismatched tires and driving down curvy roads on a regular basis in terms of center diff wear. I've rarely ever heard of any Toyota or Subaru center diffs going (not up to date on Audis) since they're pretty robust, and you know a lot of people drive around with uneven tire wear, etc.
 
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