If VW buys back your JSW, what will you replace it with?

[ksing44]

*VW does something for us to show that we are important as VW customers. There needs to be an extra level of incentive above and beyond the initial settlement otherwise I am going back to Subaru.

I've enjoyed my MKVI 2010 Golf TDI and I love the MKVII GTI, BUT I might be leaving after what I read about the "settlement".

 

[ATR]

I've enjoyed my MKVI 2010 Golf TDI and I love the MKVII GTI, BUT I might be leaving after what I read about the "settlement".

This thread is turning into Dieselgate version 2.0

NOTHING is final yet. June 28th will be the preliminary "here's what we've come up with, anything here you'd like to change". We will then have about a month to put our say into the deal and on July 26th we'll know for sure (unless they push it back a week or two).

 

[ericy]

And now the numbers are out. For me anyways, the buyback is attractive. I got a good deal when I bought the car, and it has below-average miles, and as a result they would offer me more than what I paid for the car 20 months ago.

The path of least resistance is a GSW. I would prefer a manual, but then you are stuck at the lowest trim level. The main thing I would want from a higher trim level would be better seats. The thought comes to mind that I could buy the GSW in the lowest trim level and swap the seats with the TDI before I turn it in . But I don't know whether the wiring harness for the lowest trim level can deal with heated seats and whether the seats from a 2014JSW would fit in a 2017GSW.

Or maybe I just go aftermarket for the seats.

I have no interest in the Fender audio - subwoofers annoy me, and I make my wife turn hers off when I am in her car. Keyless doesn't interest me. Sunroof - meh.

I may go by the dealer tomorrow to see if they have any brochures on the 2017s.

 

[05GLX4MoWgn]

I don't see how VW can survive this. I CAN see the dealerships dumping the VW line. Volkswagen will become a punch-line.

Gimme the money to go to a tricked-out Outback. I'll kick in the difference.

After 7 dubs, i'm done.

 

[ericy]

I don't see how VW can survive this. I CAN see the dealerships dumping the VW line. Volkswagen will become a punch-line.

Gimme the money to go to a tricked-out Outback. I'll kick in the difference.

After 7 dubs, i'm done.

And our local VW dealer also sells Subaru. That's an option for me, I guess, and they won't feel too hurt no matter which way I go there.

There are still lots of questions that are hanging out there. Are there ever going to be any TDI again, or are they done with this? What about the 2016 models that they could never sell - will they fix those and sell them? At least that's a gen3, unlike my current gen1. But if these things are going to be orphans from a service point of view, they will have to make it worth my while.

I probably got one of the last gen1 cars that was ever sold. Nov 2014. I suspect there will never be a proper fix for gen1.

 

[Dill]

The problem here is the wife really likes the combo of space, manual and fuel economy. Our 2014 is our 2nd tdi sportwagon. I guess that leaves a gas sport wagon, which are now expensive, an outback wagon which won't have the fuel economy same with a used Volvo wagon. She commutes about 65 miles a day.

 

[emerscape]

Looking at the numbers and my specific situation (2011 sportwagen with 92k miles) I feel like the compensation they are offering is reasonable. Although I love my sportwagen I'm ready for something bigger and will move on to a Grand Cherokee. I won't be happy about parting with my sportwagen but to me it is a better financial decision to move on to something with a warranty and that better fits my needs.

On a different note, does anyone know what the implications of a buy-back are when it comes to sales tax credits? For example, in Massachusetts if you trade in your care and purchase another you received a credit for the value of the trade against the purchase price of the new vehicle which ultimately lowers your sales tax calculation.

 

[pknopp]

I don't see how VW can survive this. I CAN see the dealerships dumping the VW line. Volkswagen will become a punch-line.

Gimme the money to go to a tricked-out Outback. I'll kick in the difference.

After 7 dubs, i'm done.

Dealers are about to come into a windfall. Look at how many here are considering another VW. I would also but I need a truck. So you are going to have a few hundred thousand people bringing their cars to a VW dealership and getting a check. The VW dealer then gets first crack at them. VW owners are pretty loyal. This does hurt some but they are going to be selling a lot of cars.

Many VW dealers are combo dealers......no VW? O.K. How about a Mazda? Honda? Subaru?

 

[ksing44]

This thread is turning into Dieselgate version 2.0
NOTHING is final yet. June 28th will be the preliminary "here's what we've come up with, anything here you'd like to change". We will then have about a month to put our say into the deal and on July 26th we'll know for sure (unless they push it back a week or two).

You were right! It isn't like what I read the day that it made me concerned. It's pretty good I think.

 

[PFCoppinger]

Hmm

If they give the dealers some room to move new VWs, then the buyback value, less the mileage deduction (which hurts as I am a high mileage driver) might just about get me into a Golf Sportwagen, and a loan term that is close to whats left on my 2014 JSW.

I think that means I could keep my snow tires and the small amount of similar stuff. It also means I can replace the dead summer tires on the JSW, but keep those crummy tires, and then swap them back on when the car is returned.

We have a lot to think about.

 

[DUBPL8]

Going back to the JDM world

 

[tsundoku]

And now the numbers are out. For me anyways, the buyback is attractive. I got a good deal when I bought the car, and it has below-average miles, and as a result they would offer me more than what I paid for the car 20 months ago.@

It looks very attractive, but I still want to keep the car. However...

Customers can ... if a modification is approved, choose to have their vehicle modified free of charge and keep it.

That's a big if, and nobody seems to believe a modification for DEF-less cars will ever be approved. Whether I take the buyback and pay off my loan balance, or get a cash payment with the (seemingly unlikely) modification, I would stand to pocket about $7,000. Am I stubborn enough to turn down $7,000 to keep the car? What about parts and service in the longer term? I'm not sure it's a great idea, no matter how much I want to.

The path of least resistance is a GSW. I would prefer a manual, but then you are stuck at the lowest trim level. The main thing I would want from a higher trim level would be better seats. The thought comes to mind that I could buy the GSW in the lowest trim level and swap the seats with the TDI before I turn it in . But I don't know whether the wiring harness for the lowest trim level can deal with heated seats and whether the seats from a 2014JSW would fit in a 2017GSW.

Oh really. There was an exchange earlier about this same issue on the Golf. For the longest time Volkswagen in the USA resisted the greater market trend to treat manuals as nothing more than a low-cost option, but now they've given up. Part of the TDIs' appeal to me was that the transmission choice was completely separate from selection of trim package, so you could get a premium car without an automatic. I really don't feel like playing games with buying low trim levels and dressing them up myself, which means any new car I buy is probably going to have to be a sporty model for the sake of transmission choice if nothing else. Sometime soon I intend to test drive a GTI and see if it excites me enough to consider, but I'm not sure it will. I've stated a few choices in the past (GTI, Mazda3 2.5, BRZ, BMW 2) but at the moment I don't feel enthusiastic enough about any of them to give up my car and reset the clock on an auto loan.

 

[Jettawolfs98]

I'm hoping for an extra VW loyal customer discount if we say okay here is my car, what's the deal for a new VW?. I will get another VW, call me crazy but already have winter tires and i know the brand. we'll see if they sweet the deal after July 26.

 

[pknopp]

I'm hoping for an extra VW loyal customer discount if we say okay here is my car, what's the deal for a new VW?. I will get another VW, call me crazy but already have winter tires and i know the brand. we'll see if they sweet the deal after July 26.

I'd buy a C.C. if they made me a great deal and I was in the market for another car. I'm not.

 

[cwescapexlt4x4]

I want us to go to a Subaru Outback (ideally) or a Forrester but since the JSW is the wife's DD she's not as on-board with this.

So with the very limited wagon options, could end up looking towards CRV but who really knows now. While I like that VW is bring the All-Track GSW... We aren't ready to give VW back our $$ at this point.

 

[Aaric]

Subaru Crosstrek Limited with eyesight.

It's in the garage already

I lose some mileage but gain a lot of versatility with the AWD, ground clearance, etc

 

[newbury]

Well now that the $$ are about figured out I'm starting to face the reality of state forced divorce from my 2009 JSW of 72,000 miles
As I drove it on a short trip to the mall I cherished it's power and agility.
However unless I can talk SWMBO into a "fixed" 201X we will probably get a Ford Transit Connect. With fuel prices the way they are and likely to be for a few years it will satisfy my craving for a small hauler and her penchant for a mini-van by Ford.
I just had to "put down" a wonderful 5 yr old Corgi due to encephalitis last month, the month before a cherished uncle died. Not a good time to have my favorite car stolen away due to a little extra pollution which is nothing compared to what my Ford F350 diesel Powerstroke spews daily.

 

[Quiksilver]

2017 Honda Ridgeline.

I own a home now (dd not when I purchased my VW), and my 1994 'yota is getting long in the tooth (rust, everywhere). I can't feasibly replace two vehicles right now with much confidence in them(Thanks VW), so it's just going to be the Ridgeline for now.

 

[DanB36]

My plan had been to keep the car. Then I saw the numbers. I bought my JSW in 2/16, so I'd have to share the repair incentive (assuming there is a repair) with the previous owner, meaning I would pocket about $3500 (plus whatever share of the funds set aside for eligible sellers doesn't get claimed by them). Buyback is looking at $23k, $7k more than I paid for the car.

The problem is, I really like the wagon, and I really like the diesel. Only other option I can see is a 328d Wagon. Sounds nice, but quite a bit more expensive.

 

[PFCoppinger]

As for the options:

1. I don't have much faith in the "fix" option. Even if they manage to put something together that can get approved, it seems fairly obvious that there will be substantial tradeoffs in loss of torque and efficiency, and stress on the entire emissions system. The extended warranty is for 48K miles, which is 18 months of driving for me, and is way too short for what is very likely to be a glorified kludge.

2. Do Nothing is a very attractive option, but carries some significant risk. I live in Massachusetts, which is a CARB state. But I do not know if the Registry of Motor Vehicles has the legal authority to deny registration to specific "singled-out" vehicles. (The rule is if OBD shows "OK" then its OK, and my JSW will show "OK".) And even if they don't, that is no guaranty that they won't get that authority at some point in the future-- whether by new regulations or by new legislation. So "do nothing" is essentially a gamble that the car won't wind up being a large paperweight.

3. That leaves the buyback, which is a pretty fair number, even for high-mileage cars like mine. Unfortunately the JSW TDI was a unicorn, which has a combination of characteristics that cannot be duplicated without the fudge that got us here. Which means, alas, that tradeoffs will have to be made. For me, I have to trade things off for space and utility--meaning something of similar size, hopefully similar comfort. Going to lose the 6MT, torque, and that lovely efficiency. CUVs trade away too much of all of those things. And the buyback number for me lands me very close to the MSRP of the gas-powered GSW. So, at this point, that is the front runner, especially if they are able to offer encouragement for me to stay with VW.

That is a bummer of a decision, and carries none of the excitement that should come with a new (or even new to you) car. But the economics of it are forceful indeed.

 

[ericy]

As for the options:

1. I don't have much faith in the "fix" option. Even if they manage to put something together that can get approved, it seems fairly obvious that there will be substantial tradeoffs in loss of torque and efficiency, and stress on the entire emissions system. The extended warranty is for 48K miles, which is 18 months of driving for me, and is way too short for what is very likely to be a glorified kludge.

2. Do Nothing is a very attractive option, but carries some significant risk. I live in Massachusetts, which is a CARB state. But I do not know if the Registry of Motor Vehicles has the legal authority to deny registration to specific "singled-out" vehicles. (The rule is if OBD shows "OK" then its OK, and my JSW will show "OK".) And even if they don't, that is no guaranty that they won't get that authority at some point in the future-- whether by new regulations or by new legislation. So "do nothing" is essentially a gamble that the car won't wind up being a large paperweight.

3. That leaves the buyback, which is a pretty fair number, even for high-mileage cars like mine. Unfortunately the JSW TDI was a unicorn, which has a combination of characteristics that cannot be duplicated without the fudge that got us here. Which means, alas, that tradeoffs will have to be made. For me, I have to trade things off for space and utility--meaning something of similar size, hopefully similar comfort. Going to lose the 6MT, torque, and that lovely efficiency. CUVs trade away too much of all of those things. And the buyback number for me lands me very close to the MSRP of the gas-powered GSW. So, at this point, that is the front runner, especially if they are able to offer encouragement for me to stay with VW.

That is a bummer of a decision, and carries none of the excitement that should come with a new (or even new to you) car. But the economics of it are forceful indeed.

You and I both have the same car, so we are in very much the same spot in terms of decision making. I too had been thinking of a GSW as a possible replacement, but then you can only get a 5MT in the lowest trim level.

There are a couple of unknowns here. First, is this the end of TDI or isn't it? And if we assume that the gen3 cars are going to be relatively easy for VW to fix, there is going to be a bunch of 2016s that they have been sitting on since last fall, and they may need to mark those down quite a bit to move them out.

If this is truly the end of TDI in the US, then all of the TDI are going to be truly unicorns - even if they do try to sell off the 2016s that they have been sitting on.

A lot of unknowns, but it won't be until the fall that we can even begin to do something even if we wanted to.

 

[E.TDI]

Already kind of have my replacement.. My wife commutes the '14 JSW ~80 miles a day but we'll cut that down to about 20 miles daily with the new house we're buying closer to her work. Which leaves me with a commute of about 80 miles daily. She'll be getting our '15 Jeep Grand Cherokee that replaces her JSW. I'll likely spend a couple grand on a mk3/mk4 TDI for my new commuter and buy a 1 ton truck to pull our boat.

 

[02TDIred]

As for the options:

2. Do Nothing is a very attractive option, but carries some significant risk.

Not so much… to you but if VW fails to get 85% of the affected models recalled (for destruction) then they will be fined $85,000,000 for each percent below that court mandated level of 85% !

YIKES !
​

Reference: https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/en/docs/Appendix A.pdf

6.1 Recall Rate Target. By no later than June 30, 2019, Settling Defendants shall remove from commerce in the United States and/or perform an Approved Emissions Modification on at least 85% of those 2.0 Liter Subject Vehicles that existed as of September 17, 2015, as defined below (“National Recall Target” for the “National Recall Rate”).
…
For purposes of this Paragraph, the total number of 2.0 Liter Subject Vehicles is 487,532 (499,406 vehicles less scrapped vehicles as of October 1, 2015 of 11,874). For purposes of this Paragraph, the total number of all 2.0 Liter Subject Vehicles registered in California is 70,814.

6.2 Approved Emissions Modification for Generation 3: N/A
…
6.3 Consequences of Failing to Meet Recall Target. If, by June 30, 2019, Settling Defendants fail to achieve the 85% Recall Rate Targets required by Paragraph 6.1, Settling Defendants shall make additional contributions (“Mitigation Trust Payments”) to the Environmental Mitigation Trust established pursuant to Appendix D of this Consent Decree. Such additional Mitigation Trust Payments shall be as follows:

6.3.1. National Mitigation Trust Payment. For failure to reach the National Recall Target, Settling Defendant shall contribute to the Environmental Mitigation Trust $85,000,000 for each 1% that the National Recall Rate falls short of the National Recall Target. In calculating any payment required under this subparagraph, the National Recall Rate shall be rounded to the nearest half percentage point. Any payments to the Environmental Mitigation Trust made pursuant to this subparagraph shall be used pursuant to the terms of Appendix D exclusively to fund environmental mitigation projects outside California.

6.3.2. California Mitigation Trust Payment. For failure to reach the California Recall Target, Settling Defendant shall contribute to the Environmental Mitigation Trust $13,500,000 for each 1% that the California Recall Rate falls short of the California Recall Rate Target. In calculating any payment required under this subparagraph, the California Recall Rate shall be rounded to the nearest half percentage point. Any payments to the Environmental Mitigation Trust made pursuant to this subparagraph shall be used pursuant to the terms of Appendix D exclusively to fund environmental mitigation projects in California.

P.S. GSW w/ 6spd Manual avail. in 2017 MY

 

[toneman]

Interesting a much lower bar for California. Still, there's your owner's leverage right there if enough folks say they will refuse the current compensation agreement during the feedback period.

 

[newbury]

<snip>
There are a couple of unknowns here. First, is this the end of TDI or isn't it? And if we assume that the gen3 cars are going to be relatively easy for VW to fix, there is going to be a bunch of 2016s that they have been sitting on since last fall, and they may need to mark those down quite a bit to move them out.
<snip>

Might have to pick up 2 or 3.

 

[GetMore]

Maybe I can get them to trade my '10 for a '16 GSW. Tell them to do a straight trade, and they can have the car.
It is a little bit of a stretch, but maybe if I hold my breath long enough...

 

[PFCoppinger]

I'm not sure what VW paying a fine has to do with me, if I can't get my car registered.

After thinking things over for a few days, I am now leaning back toward The Fixx, which brings a payment that is just a few grand short of the net "buyback" payment that could be applied toward something new.

If I keep it and get The Fixx, I reduce the debt on this car by quite a bit, and do not have to eat depreciation again. Even if there is (and there will be) a hit to efficiency and performance, the nerfed TDI is probably still preferable to anything else out there, new or used.

I am more comfortable with the risk of an expensive DPF repair at some point, because I have usually driven cars for a very long time. When they're older, they hit you once in awhile for a four digit number with a crooked first digit. So long as everything else is good, you suck it up and drive for another 100,000 miles.

 

[tango_28]

Just look at Chevy Volt today, kind of small compare to my JSW. I'm still thinking getting GSW.

 

[joewilhite]

my friend has one to be bought back and i can really say that my OLD YUGO DID BETTER .
just sayin

 

[turbobrick240]

my friend has one to be bought back and i can really say that my OLD YUGO DID BETTER .
just sayin

What exactly did your Yugo do better? Fall apart?