rfortson
Veteran Member
Service might be a problem. Not sure the techs in states that don't carry them will know what to do with them.
If I can't have a VW TDI - I'm going full electric
- Thread starter coolbreeze
- Start date
VeeDubTDI
Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
I test drove an e-Golf at Ourisman in Maryland, and their financial guy was a vulture. We decided not to spend our money with them.
JDenyer232
Veteran Member
EV's will be a niche car for a while yet. Even though the range has gotten better they are still not there, sure they will work fine for most work commutes, but long range family trips, just not there yet. Many families don't want the payments on an extra vehicle with limited range whose only purpose is commuting. The costs of EV's are gonna need to come down before people are gonna buy them en mass. The subsidy train for EV's, solar panels and other green programs can't go on forever, not at 20 trillion dollars in debt. Don't get me wrong, I wish EV's were the norm as they bring many benefits to the table that ICE powered cars cannot. There is one huge issue that keeps getting ignored and that is the charging infrastructure, and I'm not talking the lack of chargers. Let's say this year they roll out the perfect battery, one that gives a true 500 mile range and can be charged in 30 minutes or less. These new batteries have very long lifetimes, and people flock to them. By 2020 or even 2030 10% of all cars on the road are EV's. The grid is simply not up to par to move that kind of energy, even if we had the extra supply to spare which we don't. EV roll out will be hampered by our lack of infrastructure to support it. The upgrades will be very pricey and will be paid for by the rate payers. As demand for gasoline in the U.S. declines due to EV's, gas prices will decline and electric rates will go up. The reason for the rate increases is simply supply and demand, as well as the cost to upgrade the transmission infrastructure to carry the increased load. If gas stays at say $2/gal and electric rates surge to the equivalent of $3/gal, people are gonna go with the cheaper fuel every time. We will eventually get there, it's just not gonna happen in 4 years, or 10 years, or even 20.
MrSprdSheet
Veteran Member
Coolbreeze, A 124 mile EV will work really well, especially since you have another car. What I can't understand, and have to keep in check, is the loyalty to VW and Audi.
EVs are ready for prime time. The Bolt wasn't rated for 200 miles. It's city numbers actually were revealed this week, at 255. VW just got around to upping its range past 100 miles, to ~124, not because the tech isn't ready for "prime time" but because this is another place where they'd just assume keep margins as fat as possible, and give their customers something less. They're behind in PHEV/EV. More proof, serach the new VW "e-crafter" that tops out at 50mph, because VW fit this Sprinter-type vehicle with the same 100kw electric motor spec that happens to be a little shy of the Chevy Volt's 111kw. Whah? Why be loyal to this steady treatment?
Maybe it's VW/Porsche/Audi who aren't ready for the prime time?
I'm going through https://ev-cpo.com/ , about the pull the trigger on another Tesla and seeing lots of opportunity to land at $60-65k, after tax-credits, on 75kwh cars. That's still maybe $10k north of e-tron territory, but remember, too, that e-tron buyers aren't eligible for ~half the $7,500 tax credit, because VWG refuses to put a big battery in a car (You have to get to 16kwh to reach $7,500 federal).
Your e-Golf / e-Trons probably ride on Sachs. Teslas ride on Bilsteins. Bilstein used to mean something, and I've thrown away more Porsche and VW OE Sachs than I can remember.
I don't want to sound arrogant, and appreciate that "prime time" means lower prices, but these cars, and the tech, are here. But, I'm sorry, VW's 300 mile car, that charges "in 15 minutes" is not 2 years away. We're diesel folk. We know well how VW often advertised NEDC ratings for 55-60mpg on their upcoming product, only to be disappointed when ~40 or so show up from the American EPA. Same here. VW puts stuff in people's heads at the NEDC standard, then delivers the usual 2/3rds of their claim when product reaches our shores. So, your 300 mile hopes are likely to be 200 real-world, or EPA, miles. Your 15 minutes are apt to be a let down, too.
VW has to spend 2 billion toward alternative promotion, mostly electrics and hopefully charging. There's plenty of room to build out a replica of Tesla's supercharge.info with that money. The problem is what control will VW have, and that nobody else is planning an onboard car charger that can accept the 800 volt charging that VW is waving around. No other way to charge that fast unless the amps go through the roof, and wires get like >1" fat copper. [200 miles of range are ~60kwh. Charging 60kwh in "15 minutes" takes 60X4=~240,000 watts. Check out a Tesla Supercharger's wires, that push ~115kw. Double that, then consider "taper"]
It sounds like I'm on one big tangent, but as a Porsche fan I look forward to this 800 volt stuff. Beyond enabling faster charging, it will make for awesome regeneration and power output on the track. I truly believe VWG isn't lying when they bring it up, but doubt they will follow through with the charging infrastructure that introduces it for many years. The only thing reasonably certain about 2018 is VW will have close to 85% of its CR TDI's off the road.
EVs are ready for prime time. The Bolt wasn't rated for 200 miles. It's city numbers actually were revealed this week, at 255. VW just got around to upping its range past 100 miles, to ~124, not because the tech isn't ready for "prime time" but because this is another place where they'd just assume keep margins as fat as possible, and give their customers something less. They're behind in PHEV/EV. More proof, serach the new VW "e-crafter" that tops out at 50mph, because VW fit this Sprinter-type vehicle with the same 100kw electric motor spec that happens to be a little shy of the Chevy Volt's 111kw. Whah? Why be loyal to this steady treatment?
Maybe it's VW/Porsche/Audi who aren't ready for the prime time?
I'm going through https://ev-cpo.com/ , about the pull the trigger on another Tesla and seeing lots of opportunity to land at $60-65k, after tax-credits, on 75kwh cars. That's still maybe $10k north of e-tron territory, but remember, too, that e-tron buyers aren't eligible for ~half the $7,500 tax credit, because VWG refuses to put a big battery in a car (You have to get to 16kwh to reach $7,500 federal).
Your e-Golf / e-Trons probably ride on Sachs. Teslas ride on Bilsteins. Bilstein used to mean something, and I've thrown away more Porsche and VW OE Sachs than I can remember.
I don't want to sound arrogant, and appreciate that "prime time" means lower prices, but these cars, and the tech, are here. But, I'm sorry, VW's 300 mile car, that charges "in 15 minutes" is not 2 years away. We're diesel folk. We know well how VW often advertised NEDC ratings for 55-60mpg on their upcoming product, only to be disappointed when ~40 or so show up from the American EPA. Same here. VW puts stuff in people's heads at the NEDC standard, then delivers the usual 2/3rds of their claim when product reaches our shores. So, your 300 mile hopes are likely to be 200 real-world, or EPA, miles. Your 15 minutes are apt to be a let down, too.
VW has to spend 2 billion toward alternative promotion, mostly electrics and hopefully charging. There's plenty of room to build out a replica of Tesla's supercharge.info with that money. The problem is what control will VW have, and that nobody else is planning an onboard car charger that can accept the 800 volt charging that VW is waving around. No other way to charge that fast unless the amps go through the roof, and wires get like >1" fat copper. [200 miles of range are ~60kwh. Charging 60kwh in "15 minutes" takes 60X4=~240,000 watts. Check out a Tesla Supercharger's wires, that push ~115kw. Double that, then consider "taper"]
It sounds like I'm on one big tangent, but as a Porsche fan I look forward to this 800 volt stuff. Beyond enabling faster charging, it will make for awesome regeneration and power output on the track. I truly believe VWG isn't lying when they bring it up, but doubt they will follow through with the charging infrastructure that introduces it for many years. The only thing reasonably certain about 2018 is VW will have close to 85% of its CR TDI's off the road.
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I don't understand the low end torque argument. You can't compare (sure you can, but it's not fair) a force induction diesel to a naturally aspirated gasser, if that's what you were coming from. Looking at a tdi (2.0 cr) and turbo gasser dyno (mk7 gti), the gasser peak torque is 200 rpm higher than the diesel. The mpg and range of diesel, I get that argument. I rarely crack 30 mpg highway in my gti, but routinely get 50 in our a3 tdi. And the gti is definitely more torque happy than the tdi.
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scooperhsd
Top Post Dawg
The wife could live with an electric (8 mile each way) - but there's NO WAY I'd even consider it (37 miles each way - on the shortest (not necessarily fastest) route) . "300 miles" range on an EV - SHOW ME THE MONEY !!!! 30 minute charge times with that range - SHOW ME THE MONEY !!!
I LIKE my 2000 TDI 600+ mile range - I'm good for 8-10 days of commuting.
I LIKE my 2000 TDI 600+ mile range - I'm good for 8-10 days of commuting.
coolbreeze
Veteran Member
Just in case I consider going up there, can I ask what the Finance guy tried to play on you? If you don't want to post maybe pm me.
Thanks
coolbreeze
Veteran Member
Thanks for taking the time. You are a real benefit to this site. I appreciate you desire to inform and share. I mean that. So many just want to attack here. I know your intent was to inform.
coolbreeze
Veteran Member
No argument. I own a Stage 1+ GTI and understand. I think you have to consider I am looking at the whole picture. My GTI has tons of torque but as much as I like it I also enjoy the cost cost to drive the TDI. My TDI has torque I enjoy at the right RPM's and cost me 48 cents per mile. The GTI is a blast but premium and 30mpg avg make it around 77 cents per mile. With ME I enjoy a well constructed car that has low end torque and I can feel good about the cost to drive. So it comes down to my unique needs and likes in a car and I think a fun to drive EV will do it. I'll drive the e-golf and a e-tron and compare to a 17 GTI or Alltrack and see where I go.
From Fuelly
My GTI
2016 Volkswagen GTI SE [EDIT VEHICLE]
2.0L L4 GAS
Property of coolbreeze Added Oct 2015
Location: Troutman NC
Share on: Facebook Twitter
Change Photo
Basic Stats
31.3
(0.0)
Avg MPG
31.8
(-1.5)
Last MPG
43.1
(5/21/16)
Best MPG
294.1
All Time
Avg Miles/Fuel-Up
$2.41
All Time
Avg Price/Gallons
$24.29
All Time
Avg Price/Fuel-up
$0.077
All Time
Avg Price/Mile
31.3
Last 18 Months
Avg MPG
0.0
Last Month
Avg MPG
502.00
All Time
Best Miles/Fuel-up
$2.15
All Time
Best Price/Gallon
$558.67
All Time
Total Spent
43.1
All Time
Best MPG
Cricket II
2013 Volkswagen Golf TDI [EDIT VEHICLE]
2.0L L4 DIESEL Standard 6 Speed Hatchback
Salvaged Awesomeness. Loaded and rolling perfectly. Great to see 50MPG again.
Basic Stats
41.9
(+0.1)
Avg MPG
43.0
(+0.3)
Last MPG
51.1
(6/13/16)
Best MPG
417.0
All Time
Avg Miles/Fuel-Up
$1.93
All Time
Avg Price/Gallons
$20.10
All Time
Avg Price/Fuel-up
$0.046
All Time
Avg Price/Mile
41.9
Last 18 Months
Avg MPG
0.0
Last Month
Avg MPG
726.00
All Time
Best Miles/Fuel-up
$1.77
All Time
Best Price/Gallon
$321.57
All Time
Total Spent
51.1
All Time
Best MPG
gmcjetpilot
Veteran Member
Going all electric...
1) Plan on renting cars to go on cross country
2) plan on spending a bit of every day plugging in and unplugging
3) plan on spending a lot more if a Tesla way way more
Enjoy
I just like getting in my car and driving 700 miles and making a few short pit stops...
My TDI is paid for and I can drive it as long as I like, and will for another 5-10 years...
1) Plan on renting cars to go on cross country
2) plan on spending a bit of every day plugging in and unplugging
3) plan on spending a lot more if a Tesla way way more
Enjoy
I just like getting in my car and driving 700 miles and making a few short pit stops...
My TDI is paid for and I can drive it as long as I like, and will for another 5-10 years...
coolbreeze
Veteran Member
Wow, you have absolutely added to this thread. Thank you!
1. I fly across country, because I have a job to get back too. I also have a very nice Tig in the family if needed, since I am married.
2. I plan on plugging in when I get home, THEN I will go inside, eat, have a beer and see how you wasted your day flaming people here, then go to bed. Wake up, go outside and unplug my car before I leave.
3. I have no idea what you where trying to say, but I'm sure it was worthless.
bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Electrics don't fit all lifestyles, but for those that they do fit...
And, if you have an electric, you'll spend less time plugging it in and unplugging it in a month (unless you keep it topped up after short trips) than you would fueling a TDI, if you charge at home.
fnjimmy!
Chucklechump
That's a bit disingenuous as it doesn't count the entire time required to "refuel" an electric car. At 600 miles per tank and 60mph my TDI can be driven 1400+ miles in a 24-hour period. You just can't do that in an electric car. Electric cars are just not viable for people who need to drive 30,000 miles per month and there's no way around it no matter how good anyone feels about it.bhtooefr said:
Now suppose you're an average person who drives 1/30th of that. That works out to a 34 miles/day average. For someone with that driving pattern they'd have to plug their car in every other day if they owned something like a Leaf. Once a week if they had a Bolt, vs twice per month with the sort of car normal people drive. I just don't see people being excited about making that sort of compromise.
k1xv
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Location
- southern Vermont
- TDI
- 09 TDI sedan, sold back 12/16. Present cars 2013 BMW X5 diesel, 2015 Corvette convertible
Looks like Jim would only want an electric car if there were catenary power supply wires over the highway, and his car had a pantograph to reach them.
fnjimmy!
Chucklechump
Care to be more specific? To which "Jim" are you referring?
ChimneyJim
Veteran Member
30000 miles a month?!
Rico567
Top Post Dawg
It's easy to generalize, and this thread is full of it. "Everybody should—":
1. Stick with the TDI
2. Go full EV
3. Get a plug-in hybrid
4. Get a regular hybrid
5. Just get a regular gasser.
Well, there will be some that fit one of these, and not others. Some may be able to reasonably choose among several. Our case is hardly typical, but we still have choices.
1. Stay with the TDI. Given the benefits of buyback, not this diesel, and getting another one seems to be buying into an increasingly fragile and expensive technology. So, a very weak "maybe," but "probably not."
2. Full EV. Here in a small Midwestern city, with NO charging stations that I know of, not an option. And we live in a building with an underground parking garage with no charging ability, and no chance of getting any without an expensive retrofit to the building's infrastructure. Not an option when added to our road trips and the current range of EVs.
3. Plug-in. Waste of money, since we can't use the plug-in feature.
4. Regular hybrid. A definite option, if we could be sold on the car's other virtues. If.
5. Gasser. Well, before this Passat TDI (our first), we owned a number of gas cars over the years, and in general they served us well. We wouldn't be happy with the mileage hit, given that we'd want a vehicle with the room and comfort of the Passat. But, no matter the downsides, this is an option.
Which one of 1, 4, or 5 is the best choice? I don't know yet, luckily we've got over two years before we have to turn the Passat in on the buyback.
1. Stick with the TDI
2. Go full EV
3. Get a plug-in hybrid
4. Get a regular hybrid
5. Just get a regular gasser.
Well, there will be some that fit one of these, and not others. Some may be able to reasonably choose among several. Our case is hardly typical, but we still have choices.
1. Stay with the TDI. Given the benefits of buyback, not this diesel, and getting another one seems to be buying into an increasingly fragile and expensive technology. So, a very weak "maybe," but "probably not."
2. Full EV. Here in a small Midwestern city, with NO charging stations that I know of, not an option. And we live in a building with an underground parking garage with no charging ability, and no chance of getting any without an expensive retrofit to the building's infrastructure. Not an option when added to our road trips and the current range of EVs.
3. Plug-in. Waste of money, since we can't use the plug-in feature.
4. Regular hybrid. A definite option, if we could be sold on the car's other virtues. If.
5. Gasser. Well, before this Passat TDI (our first), we owned a number of gas cars over the years, and in general they served us well. We wouldn't be happy with the mileage hit, given that we'd want a vehicle with the room and comfort of the Passat. But, no matter the downsides, this is an option.
Which one of 1, 4, or 5 is the best choice? I don't know yet, luckily we've got over two years before we have to turn the Passat in on the buyback.
TDIinMA
Veteran Member
Good summary. I'm hedging between options 1 and 5. I would love to get a 2015 TDI, but also like the 4-MOTION of the Alltrack, the performance of the GTI, and the coolness of the Beetle Dune convertible.
If VW would only give us a solid incentive to remain loyal, I'd be all over any of these.
740GLE
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2009
- Location
- NH
- TDI
- 2017 Alltrack SE; Totaled 2015 Passat SEL, BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat SE w/ Nav,
Try plugging that volt/bolt/leaf into a tesla high speed charger, let me know how it works.
Propiarty connectors like the tesla rapid DC chargers is one of the biggest step backs in EV adaption. Yeah its self serving for tesla but gonna be a big fail as the years tick by.
kjclow
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2003
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
- TDI
- 2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
An electric makes sense as one of our cars. I have a seven mile commute and my wife has about 20 miles. My biggest fear is that I will be out of town, so the ICE car will be sitting at the airport and she will have forgotten to plug her car in. She would then have no power to get to school.
Looking at Rico's post: The only one that is out of contention right now is another VWAG TDI. Audis are a little out of my price range, since I would want new for the family car, and VW has mentioned that they won't be back with diesels. Doesn't mean I wouldn't consider a Chevy diesel. Heck, I'm realy trying to convince myself and the wife that the GMC Canyon is the only vechile of choice but in reality, there isn't anything wrong with my 07 that I can't live with for several more years. The 18 Equinox with the diesel looks interesting but I would probably try to wait until the 19s are out so that I don't have a first year car.
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rfortson
Veteran Member
Where did I say anything about plugging a Bolt/Volt into a Tesla proprietary network? Yeah, I didn't.
I was making the point that the best case is if you own a Tesla, you can use their network and even then, plan on spending 30 minutes to only get to 80% charge.
Also, the rumors are that Tesla may charge Model 3 owners for the network, so figure that into the cost of ownership of their "affordable" car.
For me, plug-in hybrid makes the most sense. I can plug into a standard 110V/220V outlet in my garage in the evening, and on rare occasions at a restaurant or mall. That gives me my first 15-20 miles per day on pure electric. That covers 90% of my week. When I need to go further, it's a regular hybrid. You don't have to plug it in.
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Debra Morgan
Veteran Member
Highly impressive, and very much inline with other owners.
Rico567
Top Post Dawg
It is highly impressive, and I'm sure that it is in line with other owners who are in a similar situation. I would love to be in a situation whereby I could do that. I'm not. (And, I am sure, this applies to other followers of this forum.)Quote: Originally Posted by philip_g View Post I have a volt said:
rfortson
Veteran Member
Why would you think that? 53 miles on electric is a pretty good chunk of driving each day. Even if you commute 75 miles per day, you're only buying gas for 25 miles per day. I think you're falling into the same trap many EV evangelists fall into, that it's an all or nothing thing. Plug-in hybrids are a bonus. If you don't get to charge or run out of charge along the highway, you're "stuck" with a basic hybrid/gas vehicle that gets at worst 45mpg during that time.
gmcjetpilot
Veteran Member
1) Flying is irrelevant. I fly for free anytime, anyplace. Cars that go X-country non-stop (or even just 200 mi/day without hours to charge) is still best for me. Sorry if your feelings got hurt. Most trips that are in the 200-1000 mile round trip range are often driven, due to cost of flying and convenience of schedule and having a car at destination. Driving the "road trip" is very American.Wow, you have absolutely added to this thread. Thank you!
1. I fly across country, because I have a job to get back too. I also have a very nice Tig in the family if needed, since I am married.
2. I plan on plugging in when I get home, THEN I will go inside, eat, have a beer and see how you wasted your day flaming people here, then go to bed. Wake up, go outside and unplug my car before I leave.
3. I have no idea what you where trying to say, but I'm sure it was worthless.
2) I flamed you? Ha ha, you are hypocritical and projecting my friend. All your comments are decidedly personal attacks, i.e., flaming. My comment that EV's have disadvantages. Range, needing to plug in and cost of EV's. You said I'm going all electric? I am just stating facts. OK enjoy your EV...
3) I know you have no idea what I am saying. It is very to the point. You are just being petulant and it's you my friend who is making no point but just throwing a fit. Simmer down. Going from a TDI to EV is going to be a big difference. Again range limited, charge time, finding a place to plug in and cost of EV's are just some factors.
I know this is now the generation of "safe spaces" where contrary ideas are not acceptable; you should be shielded from other opinions. Sorry you are so sensitive. Enjoy your EV.
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gmcjetpilot
Veteran Member
That is funny. I think it is you who is in denial of facts. Like the OP this is apparently
an emotional issue for you, who is also not persuaded by facts.
I have no denial, just know technology and finances. I agree EV is a "lifestyle"
choice (of compromises around the cars range limitations). However after you
buy that expensive EV, be ready for the other stages of grief, which will result
in anger, depression and acceptance you made a mistake.
Ouch.Yes I change my TDI oil once every 10 months. Takes 5 mins, using top extractor.
Yes I fill up once ever 3.5 weeks... about 3-4 minutes. Yep 580 miles a tank, 680
on highway. Yep you'll schlep that cord to & fro from your your EV.... a lot. Ha ha.
That is if you can find a place to plug-in. All true comments...
If you all don't think EV has any disadvantages you are in denial. Also by the time
you pay for the very expensive EV car, home charge station, electricity, low resale,
you are not saving anything. You feel good about it? Great. Peace, enjoy.
Most EV's are happy to bust 100 miles a charge. The new gen is bragging about
200 miles. When my TDI has 200 range remaining, I've already driven 2.5 weeks
when I have 200 mile range remaining, and I consider that low on fuel. Just saying.
Most EV"s (not all) are tiny utilitarian things, but that is changing. Good I look forward
to seeming more choices and lower prices. I also said before, I'd love a Tesla S, if I
choose to spend that money second car, but an EV as my only car no good for me.
I need utility of the JSW, range and volume. Sorry I said anything to upset you and OP....
May be you need to go to your safe space as well?
I must have struck a nerve with you sensitive delicate EV hopeful future owners.
Not my intent. Please buy your EV, and find the EV forum. That's cool.
Sorry to infringe on your fact free emotional World. Range and charge time are two
big turn offs for me. Just saying, nothing personal. I think if no TDI all EV is not
really logical. RUG cars are the logical substitution from a pure utility standpoint.
If you want to save money or the planet, EV is debatable choice. Sorry safe space
right....
EV is still in it's unique infancy, but OEM's are committed because the governments
are mandating such strict quotas, they have to. We will see the mining of elements
to make Li-ion batteries increase. It is not pollution free to make, use and then dispose
of these batteries. Generation of the electricity to charge has cost and pollution. There
is no free lunch. EV isn't a panacea for pollution or climate change. Everything has a cost,
but I'm excited to see what the future technology develops.
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VeeDubTDI
Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Speaking of "safe spaces" and contrary opinions, there are a few people on the TDI forum are getting bent out of shape about some casual discussion of alternative vehicles, as if TDIClub is their own personal "safe space" and echochamber. TDIClub isn't "TDI only," and members are free to discuss other transportation options, other fuel sources, and other brands. Let's focus on having productive discussions without evangelists from either side belittling each other for sport.1) Flying is irrelevant. I fly for free anytime, anyplace. Cars that go X-country non-stop (or even just 200 mi/day without hours to charge) is still best for me. Sorry if your feelings got hurt. Most trips that are in the 200-1000 mile round trip range are often driven, due to cost of flying and convenience of schedule and having a car at destination. Driving the "road trip" is very American.
2) I flamed upi? Ha ha, you are hypocritical and projecting my friend. All your comments are decidedly personal attacks, i.e., flaming. My comment that EV's have disadvantages. Range, needing to plug in and cost of EV's. You said I'm going all electric? I am just stating facts. OK enjoy your EV...
3) I know you have know idea what I am saying. It is very to the point. You are just being petulant and it's you my friend who is making no point but just throwing a fit. Simmer down. Going from a TDI to EV is going to be a big difference. Again range limited, charge time, finding a place to plug in and cost of EV's are just some factors.
I know this is now the generation of "safe spaces" where contrary ideas are not acceptable; you should be shielded from other opinions. Sorry you are so sensitive. Enjoy your EV.
coolbreeze
Veteran Member
1) Flying is irrelevant. I fly for free anytime, anyplace. Cars that go X-country non-stop (or even just 200 mi/day without hours to charge) is still best for me. Sorry if your feelings got hurt. Most trips that are in the 200-1000 mile round trip range are often driven, due to cost of flying and convenience of schedule and having a car at destination. Driving the "road trip" is very American.
2) I flamed upi? Ha ha, you are hypocritical and projecting my friend. All your comments are decidedly personal attacks, i.e., flaming. My comment that EV's have disadvantages. Range, needing to plug in and cost of EV's. You said I'm going all electric? I am just stating facts. OK enjoy your EV...
3) I know you have know idea what I am saying. It is very to the point. You are just being petulant and it's you my friend who is making no point but just throwing a fit. Simmer down. Going from a TDI to EV is going to be a big difference. Again range limited, charge time, finding a place to plug in and cost of EV's are just some factors.
I know this is now the generation of "safe spaces" where contrary ideas are not acceptable; you should be shielded from other opinions. Sorry you are so sensitive. Enjoy your EV.
MrSprdSheet
Veteran Member
Saw an SEL Alltrack, yesterday. White on black. Norwood said they got it 3 days ago, as I was in trying to find out how to spend the $500 card. Looks great. Nice bigger wheels, and tasteful alumimun dials, etc. I think I'm done with the brand, but found myself telling the guy the space efficiency of the JSW body will be missed. He said he expects it's Audi who will lose some customers, and pointed the sticker. $36,XXX.Good summary. I'm hedging between options 1 and 5. I would love to get a 2015 TDI, but also like the 4-MOTION of the Alltrack, the performance of the GTI, and the coolness of the Beetle Dune convertible.
If VW would only give us a solid incentive to remain loyal, I'd be all over any of these.
More like self-survival. Tesla did its own standard, just like Nissan (CHAdeMO) because a group of OEM and the SAE were yet to arrive upon the CCS standard. Its, like, 5 years later and this group, that includes BMW VW and GM, have just started sponsoring some installations (VW's east/west coast 100 chargers, for example).
The companies first to the EV party didn't go proprietary to trick anyone. For customers who felt it was the right choice, they were served. "Self serving" in my head, is when car companies don't offer EVs, charging, or gas tanks that reach 2.5 gallons.