IC Icing... Recovery?

jkowalski

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2011
Location
Arkansas/Northern Illinois
TDI
2012 Jetta Premium 6MT
So, a little background:
The last time I drove my TDI was about 5 or 6 days ago, just to move it around the driveway (it had been my DD for a week or two prior to that).
The temperature went from decent (highs in the 50's) when I parked it, to highs hovering around freezing/lows in the singles.

I go out to the garage this morning, temp readout was 30*F per the instrument cluster. Try to start it, turns over and sputters to death. Try again, turns over, and sputters to death.
I hop in my other car to drive into work.

Come home a few hours later, temp readout now about 41*F. Figure "if this is a case of intercooler icing, if I have it towed to the dealer, they're going to try to start it anyway, so might as well try." It turned over, run really rough and almost died out for the first few seconds, had a few small hiccups, and eventually seems to run fine. Drove it for about 30 miles.

Did I experience IC icing, and it just "recovered"? Could this have caused any problems? Is there anything I should look at? (I figure since there is no "proof" anything happened, VW isn't going to be pro-active about anything, since the whole story on this is they wait until their vehicles leave people stranded with IC icing before fixing this known problem)

FWIW, before attempting the 41*F restart, hooked up VCDS and no faults in reported in any system. I didn't do a re-scan since driving it.
 

pete's_TDI

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Apr 12, 2009
Location
Long Island NY
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2014 TDI Jetta sedan Black on Black 6M, VCDS on hand
Sounds like you had fuel gelled up.
Put additive in your tank and you be good to go. I doubt it was ic ice. Take the belly pan off and check for fluid in the hose
 

jkowalski

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2011
Location
Arkansas/Northern Illinois
TDI
2012 Jetta Premium 6MT
Did you drive the car at all at temperatures at or below freezing?
I think when I moved it around my driveway it was below freezing. Would have been running for only a few minutes.

Won't be getting below freezing again until tonight, and then just barely. Hopefully this was just a fluke. Ran fine to and from work this morning.
 

jmarshall

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2011
Location
Ahrensville, PA
TDI
2011 Jetta 6MT
More likely gelled fuel, you would have needed to actually drive a significant distance under the right conditions for it to be the IC.
 

jetta12tdi

Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Location
Indianapolis
TDI
2012 Jetta Sedan
More likely gelled fuel, you would have needed to actually drive a significant distance under the right conditions for it to be the IC.
There is no way that your fuel gelled up at that temperature unless you buy your diesel at a crappy/low grade/unknown station or possibly you had a summer blend in?

I drove my car last week in -40 degree F windchills and no issues what-so-ever.
 

millerman61

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Location
Chesapeake, Virginia
TDI
'13 Jetta TDI Premium w/Nav, DSG. Bought back on 12/23/16
I had the exact same start as you had last Tuesday. The symptoms you had are the classic ones. The dealer is doing the TSB on my car Wednesday.
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
Gelled fuel at barely freezing temperatures? Not a chance.

Sounds like classic intercooler icing to me... or to be more specific, water ingestion from condensation within the intercooler (frozen or otherwise).

I would have towed it to the dealer so they could at least look at it and install the updated intercooler for you. It's going to be a little more difficult now that you've forced the accumulation through the system. It would still be worth taking into the dealer to have a look and see what they say. They might find accumulation in the intercooler even after your car recovered from the event, which would prompt them to install the updated kit.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
We've had big temperature fluctuations here (from -2 to +60 (and humid) in three days) and our local guru said he had a common rail TDI on the lift last week and a lot of water came out of the intercooler piping when he pulled it off. These kind of conditions are tailor made for accumulation. I bet there's still fluid in the system, and the dealer would find it.

If this happens to me I'm not sure what I'd do, as people aren't having great luck with the "fix" either.
 

IFRCFI

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Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Location
Winchester, VA
TDI
2013 Touareg TDI Lux
Sounds like you had fuel gelled up.
Not possible given the OPs temp readings. Completely un-additized #2 diesel gels at 17.5 degrees. Should have been fine at 30 degrees.

IC Icing more likely. It doesn't have to be below freezing during driving. Intercoolers are subject to the "Venturi effect" (Google it), dropping the temps in the plumbing well below ambient air temps. Couple that with humidity (rain, etc.).
 

jmarshall

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2011
Location
Ahrensville, PA
TDI
2011 Jetta 6MT
There is no way that your fuel gelled up at that temperature unless you buy your diesel at a crappy/low grade/unknown station or possibly you had a summer blend in?

I drove my car last week in -40 degree F windchills and no issues what-so-ever.
Was basing my assertion on the fact that (s)he is from Arkansas. Not exactly the kind of place I would assume is selling winterized diesel fuel.

Also, driving your car in a -40 wind chill has no bearing. Temperature reading is what is important.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I'm pretty sure the whole country gets winterized diesel, between potential for cold weather like we've seen this week and truckers who may fill in Florida and drive to Michigan.
 

jkowalski

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2011
Location
Arkansas/Northern Illinois
TDI
2012 Jetta Premium 6MT
Went and pulled the IC "cold" hose off. While no water came pouring out, there was standing water (and green sludge). I took and printed pictures.

Going to take the pictures and the "cold" hose to the dealer tomorrow.
I'm probably SOL because I have 53,000 miles, and this is apparently only covered to 36,000 miles (never mind this could cause engine damage, with is specifically covered up to 60,000 miles)?

...
 
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jkowalski

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2011
Location
Arkansas/Northern Illinois
TDI
2012 Jetta Premium 6MT
keep in mind that the fix isn't fail proof either....
After reading other threads last night, I saw this.

I pulled the IC outlet hose last night, saw the emulsified water and oil (green baby diarrhea) that seemed more built up and liquidy than I've seen the other two times I've pulled the hose. No water came out.

Took pictures and went to the dealer this morning. Waiting for their warranty lady to come in and give me a call.

I guess since the "fix" isn't a guaranteed fix, I won't be too angry if the deny it? *sigh*
 

KITEWAGON

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Jun 29, 2009
Location
Seacoast, NH
TDI
2014 Touareg Exec, 2014 JSW
I guess since the "fix" isn't a guaranteed fix, I won't be too angry if the deny it? *sigh*
Ha! So sad but true. That is a nice job by VW, engineering a fix that isn't really a fix so that when they wrongfully deny a customer the customer isn't even mad!

Definitely sounds like an intercooler issue to me. My advice would have been to drain the water out of it after you came home from work when it was 41 F. You really don't want your engine drinking water. I know you didn't know for sure there was water there, but now that you are aware of it if you are in these temperature conditions and your car fails to start right up you know to drain it.

It really does seem to take some certain driving conditions and freeze thaw cycles to get this to occur.
 

Bigwhitebeast

Veteran Member
Joined
May 1, 2012
Location
New York
TDI
2012 Jetta
I thought I remember reading that because of the changes to the EGR that a vehicle with a "tune" no longer has the intercooler issues???

Would that be a true statement? Has anyone with a tune ever had an intercooler freeze up issue?
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Not true, unless you delete the DPF and Catalytic converter. The low pressure EGR resets every time you start the car and cannot be entirely defeated while retaining the regen function. At least that's what I've been told.
 

branger

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Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Location
Maple creek,sk, canada
TDI
2001 jetta alh tdi 1.9L (recently sold),2013 A6 jetta tdi 2 litre DSG
hey guys , im not trying to highjack here but i had the exact same issue on my 13 with only 10 k on it so far. started , died immediatley , started again took of with a little help from the accelerater and stumbled a bit then smoothed right out , i run howes in every tank so it couldn't be gelling unless howes in no good ? ( personally i think its the best one ) . Any way my question for the gurus on here is if i fit this in as an every oil change ic hose drain is this going to solve my future problems or am i wasting my time as the build up happens quickly after driving ? In canada the winters where i live are like a whores pajamas up and down the whole time. So its a classic situation for this. To me it is not a big deal to pull the hose as belly pan will be off and im under there anyway. Thanks for the help and advice in advance
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
Once per oil change may not be frequent enough. Some have reported enough condensation in the intercooler in 200 miles of driving to cause problems. Every car seems to be different and the amount of condensation depends heavily on the weather conditions. All of these details are covered extensively in the Sportwagen forum's intercooler icing sticky (suggested reading for everyone).
 

jkowalski

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2011
Location
Arkansas/Northern Illinois
TDI
2012 Jetta Premium 6MT
TSB denied under warranty. Certainly won't be paying out of pocket for this (since it's not a real fix).

So now to clean up the baby diarrhea I can get to and put everything back together.
Perhaps this spring I'll pull the IC and do a good cleaning.
 
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