I want a "hold and release" control for my regens

Dozenspeed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 1, 2012
The title sums it up...but to clarify: The regens don't always come at the best time. It would make me happy if WHEN the car needed to regen, it would alert me but not do it, with a button to allow me to fire off the regen process when I want. This way I can have it while on the highway, and not at the drive-thru window for example. :(

That's all, probably a fantasy I know. A computer would likely need to fire off the regen after 30 minutes of ignoring the need to cycle, to avoid total operator nelect, but I could live with that....
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
Some trucks have that. Light comes on telling you it needs to be done, so you can choose when to do it. It is a $250 option on the newer 6.7L Fords, called "operator commanded regeneration".
 
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Dozenspeed

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Joined
May 1, 2012
Some trucks have that. Light comes on telling you it needs to be done, so you can choose when to do it. It is a $250 option on the newer 6.7L Fords, called "operator commanded regeneration".
So how much for you to get one working in my car? :D
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Well above my pay grade. Sadly, all the smart people that could probably do something like this are instead making it so you can delete the system completely. :(
 

SilverGhost

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Maybe we can get enough interest together to make it worth while for all those smart people. I definately like where Dozenspeed is going with this.

On a slighly related topic to your comment oilhammer - could one of those smart people do a delete of just the NOx cat on a Beetle/Jetta/Golf system. I have seen the emissions testing reports and VW only just goes above limit without them, so had to have it for EPA. And the ECM tuning to keep the NOx cat happy seams to be a big culprit in MPG loss.

Options please! Any smart people listening??

Jason
 

glitdi

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Easiest way to achieve your goal would be to figure out what parameters need to be met to cycle a re-gen..
Typically speed, heat, back pressure etc.. you can trick one of the sensors you could possibly control the re-gen cycle might be as simple as a switch with a resistor but if its can bus controlled I doubt it..
You are right..First(primary) egr is a big contributor of loss of fuel economy however I would get it tuned down before deleting it... the old style egr cooler to take care of nox will eventually disappear with the clean emission systems once emissions testing and goverment gets thier buts in gear and realize that a diesel runs significantly different than one of the 70's. One of the tuners might be able to help you with both projects..
 

JSWTDI09

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I think that the only way this will ever happen is with the help of Mark Malone or Jeff at RocketChip. A change like this will almost have to be in the ECU programming.

Have Fun!

Don
 

glitdi

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Tdi asv motor in a mk3 golf, om642 in a wk jeep
Anyone have a electrical diagram I can take a look at for the emissions system?
 

VeeDubTDI

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What is the problem with a regen happening in a drive-through window. The only time it annoys me is when I am at my destination. :confused:
 

oilhammer

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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
What is the problem with a regen happening in a drive-through window. The only time it annoys me is when I am at my destination. :confused:
Because the guy behind you sitting inches from your tailpipe gets his front bumper cover melted and gets really pissed off. :p

I think driver controlled regens would be nice, myself. You could monitor about how often your car is requiring them, and then do so when it is convenient, like right in the middle of your drive, when you KNOW you won't interrupt it because you've still got another XX miles you'll b e driving. It would take some input and thinking on the operator's part, and not everyone will want this feature or even care let alone know how/when/why, but some of us ARE smart enough to figure it out.
 

VeeDubTDI

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I agree, but John Q. Public wouldn't be able to figure it out.
 

30_Yr_Dsl_Veteran

banned Ric Woodruff alias account and troll
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The car was meant to be driven, not dicked with!!! :rolleyes:

Why do you feel the need to fix something that ain't broke???

Or is that your goal?

 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
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Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
VW could make it an option you can enable via VCDS. Much like the auto wipers on the Passat.
Ha, yeah, like the dealers even know about that.... :p

I changed a boatload of crap on a rental Passat, including turning off the DRLs. Let them stew on that one for a while. :D
 

compu_85

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Location
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... None :S
What is the problem with a regen happening in a drive-through window. The only time it annoys me is when I am at my destination. :confused:
And to add a comment to this: A trip we frequently make between Woodbridge and Springfield is just short enough that when the regen starts it's when we're entering our neighborhood. If it could be started a few minutes sooner we wouldn't have to spent as much time waiting for the system to cool off.

-J
 

Dozenspeed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 1, 2012
So am I to understand the concensus is:

It cannot be as simple as 1. finding and tapping the regen system activation signal, 2. route that to a suplementally-powered control box with led indicator and switch and then 3. send the signal back to where it is supposed to go (completing the circuit) into the vehicle wiring.

This is because the diagostic computer will be tripped up by the delay of the return signals from the emissions equipment that the regen it is calling for is actually happening? This is why we need hard-core firmware programers to reflach ECUs to make it work, right?

Well maybe they are working on it in the lab anyway, even though it's most likely too late for my antique 2011. :p
 

DieselRacer

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Who cares if your car does not perform a full Regen, it will when you start back up, does no harm to engine either way...some say it's bad for the turbo, prove it...:confused:
 

JSWTDI09

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Who cares if your car does not perform a full Regen, it will when you start back up, does no harm to engine either way...some say it's bad for the turbo, prove it...:confused:
I care. How much proof do you need? Pre-turbo EGTs stay between 1200 and 1500 degrees (F.) for about 10 minutes (or more). This temperature is high enough to melt pure aluminum and more than high enough to turn even the best high quality synthetic motor oil into a black sticky tar. Shutting off the engine (and hence the turbo's oil flow) with the turbo at these temperatures will "coke" the oil in the turbo's bearings, which cannot do anything good. Ever since I installed an EGT gauge and saw the regen temps, I refuse to shut of the engine (unless it is an emergency) until EGTs drop to a lower temperature for at least a few minutes. More than once, I have done a quick drive around the block to allow the regen to complete and the turbo to cool off before stopping at my destination. How you drive your car is your business, but this is my conclusion and my practice.

Have Fun!

Don
 

DieselRacer

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I care. How much proof do you need? Pre-turbo EGTs stay between 1200 and 1500 degrees (F.) for about 10 minutes (or more). This temperature is high enough to melt pure aluminum and more than high enough to turn even the best high quality synthetic motor oil into a black sticky tar. Shutting off the engine (and hence the turbo's oil flow) with the turbo at these temperatures will "coke" the oil in the turbo's bearings, which cannot do anything good. Ever since I installed an EGT gauge and saw the regen temps, I refuse to shut of the engine (unless it is an emergency) until EGTs drop to a lower temperature for at least a few minutes. More than once, I have done a quick drive around the block to allow the regen to complete and the turbo to cool off before stopping at my destination. How you drive your car is your business, but this is my conclusion and my practice.

Have Fun!

Don
Sure, VW built a car that 90% of people who drive it shut it down during REGEN, and they are going to have problems right? Seems like a huge liability to design a car that in your opinion does not perfrom the REGEN properly, I have had 3 TDI common rails, my first 2 had over 150,000 on them, shut it down all the time during, never a turbo failure, but what do I know and what does VW know, apparently nothing...:rolleyes:
 

VeeDubTDI

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Sure, VW built a car that 90% of people who drive it shut it down during REGEN, and they are going to have problems right? Seems like a huge liability to design a car that in your opinion does not perfrom the REGEN properly, I have had 3 TDI common rails, my first 2 had over 150,000 on them, shut it down all the time during, never a turbo failure, but what do I know and what does VW know, apparently nothing...:rolleyes:
Sure, because VW marketing wants to sell an average car to an average person. Average Joe doesn't want to think about regens or exhaust temperatures or anything else beyond turning the key and driving it. We're not saying that doing or not doing something will for sure cause a problem, but armed with the knowledge of that possibility, why not be a prudent operator?
 

DieselRacer

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A blocked DPF is another story, but that has nothing to do with shutting down during REGEN...
 

glitdi

Veteran Member
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Location
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Tdi asv motor in a mk3 golf, om642 in a wk jeep
So am I to understand the concensus is:

It cannot be as simple as 1. finding and tapping the regen system activation signal, 2. route that to a suplementally-powered control box with led indicator and switch and then 3. send the signal back to where it is supposed to go (completing the circuit) into the vehicle wiring.

This is because the diagostic computer will be tripped up by the delay of the return signals from the emissions equipment that the regen it is calling for is actually happening? This is why we need hard-core firmware programers to reflach ECUs to make it work, right?
Depends..
1) need to find out which channels and what parameters control the re-gen cycle.
2) Need to determine what sensors are feeding the ecu the re-gen information.
3) Are they an analog signal or can bus (digital/analog etc)
Willing to bet the emissions system is all can bus based on my experiences with heavy equipment most of the emissions systems are can bus based.
If it is can bus based going to need a programmer and a hardware engineer at minimum. Not impossible but difficult.
4) If any of the parameters/ signals are non can bus signal based it could in theory be quite easy...
Once again an electric diagram would help put some of these questions to bed..
Or is anyone had a look at the sensors.. Are they twisted wires?
 

Montezuma

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I am curious,on these cars, where is the factory pyrometer located?
 

JSWTDI09

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I am curious,on these cars, where is the factory pyrometer located?
There are several. There are actually 4 separate EGT sensors. One before the turbo, one after the turbo (before the DPF), another after the DPF and one more later in the system. Add to this 2 differential pressure sensors, one across the DFP and one in the EGR system. I am afraid this system is more complicated that many people think. I do not know which ones of these you would have to fool to postpone regens.

Have Fun!

Don
 

glitdi

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Tdi asv motor in a mk3 golf, om642 in a wk jeep
You guys might have read it already so sorry if I am beating a dead horse. But here is some information regarding adaptation and re-gens.. It tells you how to start a re-gen.. My assumption is that you can turn off a re-gen using the adaptation as well. Not as convenient as a button but its a start.. Scroll down to the manually start a re-gen for the cliff notes.
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/vw-jetta-tdi-golf-dpf-filter.htm
 

DieselRacer

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Sure, because VW marketing wants to sell an average car to an average person. Average Joe doesn't want to think about regens or exhaust temperatures or anything else beyond turning the key and driving it. We're not saying that doing or not doing something will for sure cause a problem, but armed with the knowledge of that possibility, why not be a prudent operator?
I agree VW should at least give us a dummy light to tell us when a REGEN is occurring, and I monitor with a SG2, but they didn't, with that said ,if it was a problem with shutting off during, they would given us a warning lights just as they do other critical readings, I wish Malone Tune could program a way of telling when...
 

PressEnter[]

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This would be a handy feature. I plan to keep my car a while, and I like to make sure my regens complete. It's frustrating when it starts just when I'm arriving somewhere.
 

DieselRacer

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This would be a handy feature. I plan to keep my car a while, and I like to make sure my regens complete. It's frustrating when it starts just when I'm arriving somewhere.
It always starts when arriving, odd it knows how to do that...lol:mad:
 
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