I cannot believe how simple things become impossible for VW to settle claims

[R4074]

So I get on the portal last November to set up the claim, at the time there were a few months left on my loan and I provided the bank information. VW verifies pay-off amount (roughly $1,200.00 or so) and then sends offer letter which I sign and return. Appointment is finally set for this morning. Back up three weeks ago and my final loan payment is made, bank clears the lien and I receive a clear title about a week ago.

Once I receive the title I call the support line thinking I can update mileage and also let them know there is no longer a lienholder in case that matters. Woman on line states that it isn't necessary to update mileage that it will be done at turn in by their "buyback specialist". I also inform her that there is no longer a loan and/or lien on vehicle and she says "yes, I see that the lien has been released" which I thought was odd as the loan was through my bank and not VW Credit. She said everything was set. Now I since my State uses an electronic title system where the banks just place lien on file and the BMV actually holds the title I thought maybe VW had access that way but since she said everything is good I had no reason to doubt her.

Show up at appointment this morning and the closing statement shows the payoff from back in November, I told the "specialist" that there is no longer a loan and he then says the closing can't take place and my claim will need to be reset and I need to start all over again, and they will send out another settlement offer and then I get to wait another few months for an appointment. I call customer support and am told that they are set up to send the bank the initial payoff amount (from November) and that if less money is owed the bank returns it to VW and then VW sends it back to customer. I said fine, send them the money and then they can send it back. Nope, now that I have a title they cannot do that, I will have to start all over. Ask for a supervisor, explain the entire issue again, he puts me on hold and comes back an says 'nothing else can be done, we cannot take the car today and you have to start over.'

I could understand if I said I have a clear title at the time the offer is made and then subsequently get a loan and lien on title but how hard is this to deal with now that the loan is paid? Nothing has changed, title is still in my name, just instead of sending out two checks (one to me and one to the bank) they only have to send one and they have title in hand from day one.

They either didn't really think through the logistics of this or they are making it intentionally difficult for their customers to get paid. I have been giving VW the benefit of the doubt through this entire process. I have owned 4 VW's, 6 Audi and 2 Porsche vehicles and have liked the majority of the cars, but based on how this entire process has been handled and the absolute incompetence of the support staff (each and every person that I have talked to, bar none) I think I am done with VAG products for now.

 

[740GLE]

Sounds like you should have paid off the 1200 before submitting anything last Nov.

This is the big reason why the wife is waiting to start the paperwork on the Passat, we're in no rush to turn it in and shes in no rush to pay off the 1500 or so owed on it.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

So I get on the portal last November to set up the claim, at the time there were a few months left on my loan and I provided the bank information. VW verifies pay-off amount (roughly $1,200.00 or so) and then sends offer letter which I sign and return. Appointment is finally set for this morning. Back up three weeks ago and my final loan payment is made, bank clears the lien and I receive a clear title about a week ago.

Once I receive the title I call the support line thinking I can update mileage and also let them know there is no longer a lienholder in case that matters. Woman on line states that it isn't necessary to update mileage that it will be done at turn in by their "buyback specialist". I also inform her that there is no longer a loan and/or lien on vehicle and she says "yes, I see that the lien has been released" which I thought was odd as the loan was through my bank and not VW Credit. She said everything was set. Now I since my State uses an electronic title system where the banks just place lien on file and the BMV actually holds the title I thought maybe VW had access that way but since she said everything is good I had no reason to doubt her.

Show up at appointment this morning and the closing statement shows the payoff from back in November, I told the "specialist" that there is no longer a loan and he then says the closing can't take place and my claim will need to be reset and I need to start all over again, and they will send out another settlement offer and then I get to wait another few months for an appointment. I call customer support and am told that they are set up to send the bank the initial payoff amount (from November) and that if less money is owed the bank returns it to VW and then VW sends it back to customer. I said fine, send them the money and then they can send it back. Nope, now that I have a title they cannot do that, I will have to start all over. Ask for a supervisor, explain the entire issue again, he puts me on hold and comes back an says 'nothing else can be done, we cannot take the car today and you have to start over.'

I could understand if I said I have a clear title at the time the offer is made and then subsequently get a loan and lien on title but how hard is this to deal with now that the loan is paid? Nothing has changed, title is still in my name, just instead of sending out two checks (one to me and one to the bank) they only have to send one and they have title in hand from day one.


They either didn't really think through the logistics of this or they are making it intentionally difficult for their customers to get paid.

I have been giving VW the benefit of the doubt through this entire process. I have owned 4 VW's, 6 Audi and 2 Porsche vehicles and have liked the majority of the cars, but based on how this entire process has been handled and the absolute incompetence of the support staff (each and every person that I have talked to, bar none) I think I am done with VAG products for now.

Yours maybe the worst case ~~ IMO

 

[oilhammer]

I can't believe how many threads there are on this silly topic.

 

[R4074]

Sounds like you should have paid off the 1200 before submitting anything last Nov.

This is the big reason why the wife is waiting to start the paperwork on the Passat, we're in no rush to turn it in and shes in no rush to pay off the 1500 or so owed on it.

I never thought the program would be run this poorly.

 

[dropnosky]

Unfortunately the reality is that once you sent paperwork in saying you had a loan, you should not have paid it off fully. It is too much to expect such a slow and complex bureaucracy to compensate for this radical change in paperwork after they digested the prior papers over many months in a snakelike fashion. Remember they have 50 different possible ways to settle this paperwork now that its changed because no two states are the same. What seems simple for the individual becomes complex for bureaucracy working on half a million individuals.

I have been working to pay my loan down to less than 100 bucks owed, but i wont pay it off for this exact reason. I submitted paperwork in november that said i have a loan and by god there will still be a loan in place when they buy the car back, even if its almost nothing.

Lesson for other people with loans, dont pay them off fully.

 

[R4074]

Unfortunately the reality is that once you sent paperwork in saying you had a loan, you should not have paid it off fully. It is too much to expect such a slow and complex bureaucracy to compensate for this radical change in paperwork after they digested the prior papers over many months in a snakelike fashion. Remember they have 50 different possible ways to settle this paperwork now that its changed because no two states are the same. What seems simple for the individual becomes complex for bureaucracy working on half a million individuals.

I have been working to pay my loan down to less than 100 bucks owed, but i wont pay it off for this exact reason. I submitted paperwork in november that said i have a loan and by god there will still be a loan in place when they buy the car back, even if its almost nothing.

Lesson for other people with loans, dont pay them off fully.

So you are saying that I should have simply missed paying my last payment and run the risk of hurting my credit score? Doesn't exactly seem like a smart option.

 

[GoFaster]

You have to make things simple for the bureaucracy by not changing things mid-stream. Either:

(1) File based on having an existing loan that will extend beyond the foreseeable buyback date and DON'T PAY IT OFF, or,
(2) Pay the loan off early, get your ducks in a row showing that there is no lienholder, and file based on you having clear title, or,
(3) If the loan is almost at the end but you don't have the cash to pay it off early, hold off with filing paperwork until you have clear title and paperwork stating thus.

A pretty significant number of these buyback problems seem to be because people did "something" that changed the process mid-stream and resulted in a situation at the time of buyback that was somehow different from the situation at the time of filing paperwork. Don't do that.

 

[R4074]

You have to make things simple for the bureaucracy by not changing things mid-stream. Either:

(1) File based on having an existing loan that will extend beyond the foreseeable buyback date and DON'T PAY IT OFF, or,
(2) Pay the loan off early, get your ducks in a row showing that there is no lienholder, and file based on you having clear title, or,
(3) If the loan is almost at the end but you don't have the cash to pay it off early, hold off with filing paperwork until you have clear title and paperwork stating thus.

A pretty significant number of these buyback problems seem to be because people did "something" that changed the process mid-stream and resulted in a situation at the time of buyback that was somehow different from the situation at the time of filing paperwork. Don't do that.

(1) IMO the foreseeable buyback date wasn't almost 5 months later.

(2) See above

(3) Had I known that these idiots were this incompetent I would have simply paid it off.

The process changed because I made it simpler, instead of issuing an EFT to me and also the bank, they could now simply send funds to me. Instead of waiting for a clear title following payment to the bank, I was handing them the title with the car. Who would ever think that doing this would create a problem, that is my entire point. I don't need anyone else to reply that I should have paid it off and then filed for the Settlement Offer or I should have not paid off the loan completely before turning it in; none of you, nor I, believed that removing a lien prior to buyback would cause a problem at the time we filed the initial claim. If you claim that you did you are a liar.

Change in ownership of vehicle mid-stream I can see would be a problem. Adding a lien-holder midstream would also be a problem. Clearing a lien from a title which remained in the same name and address as before is a completely foreseeable event and should have cause no problems whatsoever for VW.

 

[Airpizz6]

You have to make things simple for the bureaucracy by not changing things mid-stream.

A voice of reason in a world of fantasy. I salute you.

But when the Leafs can make the playoffs, anything is possible.

 

[chief poncho]

A voice of reason in a world of fantasy. I salute you.

Reason? Making your scheduled loan payments isn't reasonable? I don't know what planet you live on, but reasonable would be VW having a mechanism for updating the claim information considering they took 5+ months to process it.


This is another example of the incompetence of the buyback system. Obviously, folks didn't expect the process to take 5-6 months to complete and thus have loan balances paid off. Regardless, VW should have predicted this situation given the shear volume of turn-ins, someone was bound to have a loan at the initiation of the process be paid off prior to the buyback being completed. As the OP said, this isn't a difficult issue to remedy. It simply requires a phone call to the carrier of the loan to verify payoff, and for the owner to bring the title with them to the buyback appointment. Full buyback amount now sent to the owner since there is no lien on the vehicle. Having to redo the entire process is BS. Fortunately, it seems to be going pretty quickly, minus the appointment schedule. So the good thing is you should be able to complete a resubmittal within 6 weeks or less.

 

[Airpizz6]

Reason? Making your scheduled loan payments isn't reasonable? I don't know what planet you live on, but reasonable would be VW having a mechanism for updating the claim information considering they took 5+ months to process it.

Since I have no idea what a car payment is, maybe I do live on a different planet.

 

[dropnosky]

So you are saying that I should have simply missed paying my last payment and run the risk of hurting my credit score? Doesn't exactly seem like a smart option.

Depends on your lender.

My lenders advice was overpay for months and build up a couple grand worth of early payments. Then make 1 dollar payments or none at all for a while. The overpayments go toward future monthly payments, so as far as they are concerned im paid up until october 17 right now. I can keep making overpayments until my goal, and then sit with an outstanding loan with zero risk to credit scores for months. This is possible on a pretty recent loan.

Not necessarily applicable in your situation, but other lenders have granted people extensions on this forum. Another possibility

 

[dropnosky]

(1) IMO the foreseeable buyback date wasn't almost 5 months later.

(2) See above

(3) Had I known that these idiots were this incompetent I would have simply paid it off.

The process changed because I made it simpler, instead of issuing an EFT to me and also the bank, they could now simply send funds to me. Instead of waiting for a clear title following payment to the bank, I was handing them the title with the car. Who would ever think that doing this would create a problem, that is my entire point. I don't need anyone else to reply that I should have paid it off and then filed for the Settlement Offer or I should have not paid off the loan completely before turning it in; none of you, nor I, believed that removing a lien prior to buyback would cause a problem at the time we filed the initial claim. If you claim that you did you are a liar.

Change in ownership of vehicle mid-stream I can see would be a problem. Adding a lien-holder midstream would also be a problem. Clearing a lien from a title which remained in the same name and address as before is a completely foreseeable event and should have cause no problems whatsoever for VW.

Obviously not, it created plenty of problems. The process changed because you made it more complicated by changing who officially owned it.

Simple for you, complex for a bureaucracy. Too bad, especially since it was outside your control.

 

[chief poncho]

He owed $1,200 at the time he filed. He made his scheduled payments. The loan was paid off and he received his lien release. What's so hard to understand? I suppose he could have called VW, had them reset his information and started over prior to making the appointment, but why should he have to do that? Why is it so difficult to call VW, update the information on the claim and move forward? I'll tell you why, because they hired a bunch of third party incompetents who don't want to be bothered with doing anything outside their pre-scripted box. Nobody seems to have any authority to do anything, unless it comes to rejecting a persons car at the buyback for some arbitrary reason. Funny how VW can screw up on timelines, take weeks to payoff loans, but they can't handle a simple transaction like this one.

 

[dropnosky]

He owed $1,200 at the time he filed. He made his scheduled payments. The loan was paid off and he received his lien release. What's so hard to understand? I suppose he could have called VW, had them reset his information and started over prior to making the appointment, but why should he have to do that? Why is it so difficult to call VW, update the information on the claim and move forward? I'll tell you why, because they hired a bunch of third party incompetents who don't want to be bothered with doing anything outside their pre-scripted box. Nobody seems to have any authority to do anything, unless it comes to rejecting a persons car at the buyback for some arbitrary reason. Funny how VW can screw up on timelines, take weeks to payoff loans, but they can't handle a simple transaction like this one.

No one is arguing that this is the case. Its a mess. The argument is assuming that despite all the horrible examples to date, that this mess can compensate for changes like this.

 

[GoFaster]

It's not hard for US to understand.

It's quite apparent that VW's inflexible, bureaucratic process is not capable of dealing with anything but cookie-cutter situations. You either own the car free and clear, or you have a lender and there's a lien on it. Changes mid-stream between those two scenarios are not understood.

And yes, I totally get that it wasn't foreseen by "us" (the general public) how cumbersome and inflexible VW's system was - but it has been apparent for a while.

 

[chief poncho]

Seems to me it should be as simple as this:
*call claims line* - Hello, this is R4074, my loan will be paid off prior to my scheduled buyback appointment. I will have my title and lien release available at the appointment.

claims line - Thank you for calling. We will update your claim to reflect the total buyback amount going directly to you. Can you please fax a copy of the title and lien release to the fax number xxx-xxx-xxxx on the claims portal so we can update your records. Thank you and have a nice day....DONE!

How hard would that be? The car didn't change ownership. The person he talked to on the claims line prior to his appointment made it appear there would be no issue, and yet here he is having to start the process all over again. The man should be compensated for his additional time. VW scores another checkmark for prompt customer service.

 

[dropnosky]

Seems to me it should be as simple as this:
*call claims line* - Hello, this is R4074, my loan will be paid off prior to my scheduled buyback appointment. I will have my title and lien release available at the appointment.

claims line - Thank you for calling. We will update your claim to reflect the total buyback amount going directly to you. Can you please fax a copy of the title and lien release to the fax number xxx-xxx-xxxx on the claims portal so we can update your records. Thank you and have a nice day....DONE!

How hard would that be? The car didn't change ownership. The person he talked to on the claims line prior to his appointment made it appear there would be no issue, and yet here he is having to start the process all over again. The man should be compensated for his additional time. VW scores another checkmark for prompt customer service.

Should have would have could have. None of which are useful.

I agree, should be easy, but its not, and it wont get easy. Like said above, outside cookie cutter situations the only solution is to start again and make yourself look like one of the cookie cutter situations unfortunately.

I did the same thing changing from fix to buyback like lots of other people. This minor change takes literally months upon months to change.

The OPs situation caused a bureaucrats head to explode somewhere.

 

[flargabarg]

Ever built an enterprise-scale IT system? It's likely that this scenario was missed in the specification and getting it changed now is no small deal. This is not so surprising, even though it stinks for people caught in it.

 

[GoFaster]

Further to that ... Ever built an enterprise-scale IT system dealing with financial matters, under severe schedule pressure to get it done and under pressure from the legal team to make sure no penny is ever given out to the wrong party and with limited ability for wide scale validation testing? And then be stuck with whatever faults are present after the fact?

 

[S2000_guy]

Add to that your large-scale IT system is mandated by the court; it adds no value to the corporation's bottom line, etc. Guess where all the smart guys are when they're looking for staff. They're off seeking some flagship project that will boost their stock within the company. Cause the buyback project does nothing for them if it succeeds; it can only lower their reputation in the company if things go badly.

 

[R4074]

Lets all stop making excuses for VW already. Keep in mind, this is a corporation that was able to design software to allow their vehicles to skirt emission guidelines and testing on a global scale and keep it secret for many years. Are you saying that they cannot design a system based on 2 variables (buyback/fix) containing subsets such as lease/own and lien/no lien that allow movement between the subset that removes variables?

Give me a break. The court didn't design the system, they approved the activity the system was put in place to conduct. If they didn't foresee that the bank payoffs would change (even to the point of being zero) it would have become an obvious problem immediately and a relatively easy fix. It has been in place for 5 mos. VW knows there is an issue, they simply don't care because the problem it is causing results in the company not having to pay as fast.

 

[GoFaster]

It's a very large company being a very large company. Stuff gets dysfunctional.

 

[dropnosky]

Lets all stop making excuses for VW already. Keep in mind, this is a corporation that was able to design software to allow their vehicles to skirt emission guidelines and testing on a global scale and keep it secret for many years. Are you saying that they cannot design a system based on 2 variables (buyback/fix) containing subsets such as lease/own and lien/no lien that allow movement between the subset that removes variables?

Give me a break. The court didn't design the system, they approved the activity the system was put in place to conduct. If they didn't foresee that the bank payoffs would change (even to the point of being zero) it would have become an obvious problem immediately and a relatively easy fix. It has been in place for 5 mos. VW knows there is an issue, they simply don't care because the problem it is causing results in the company not having to pay as fast.

You are doing an excellent job of missing the point. The real question is what can you do about it? You want to complain on the internet and have a shoulder to cry on, and guess what, you still have to do it all over again because the inflexible system can't compensate for this predictable issue. Everyone agrees its a pain in the rear.

No one here can fix it, no one at VW will fix it, and the court wont fix it. Return to start position, do not collect 200 dollars.

If you want a fully honest opinion id have to question someone's thought process who after all the prior delays, would not just pay off 1200 bucks and settle the lien issue before feeding paperwork into the inflexible monster. That came back to bite you in the rear, and that was pretty forseeable.

 

[chief poncho]

The internets is all about voicing our experiences and opinions. Isn't the purpose of this entire site to provide a forum for TDI owners to exchange information about the buyback? By posting (and whining) the OP is probably helping future buybacks from having to go through the same pain.

 

[R4074]

It's a very large company being a very large company. Stuff gets dysfunctional.

Again, this is simply an excuse. They can manage a just in time system to insure that hundreds of individual parts from all around the world will arrive at their plant so as to allow for the constant output of vehicles to being built, not having too many parts in stock yet never allowing it to be low enough that they run out, yet repurchasing these cars is and dealing with liens/no liens is a monumental task which cannot be perfected. Come on, I don't buy that for a minute.

 

[R4074]

The internets is all about voicing our experiences and opinions. Isn't the purpose of this entire site to provide a forum for TDI owners to exchange information about the buyback? By posting (and whining) the OP is probably helping future buybacks from having to go through the same pain.

Exactly right, part venting, part what the f#$k is wrong with this company and part 'warning to others.' Unfortunately it is also a place where using hindsight some posters pretend that they would have done something different or can't help but excuse VW due to their brand loyalty.

 

[R4074]

You are doing an excellent job of missing the point. The real question is what can you do about it? You want to complain on the internet and have a shoulder to cry on, and guess what, you still have to do it all over again because the inflexible system can't compensate for this predictable issue. Everyone agrees its a pain in the rear.

No one here can fix it, no one at VW will fix it, and the court wont fix it. Return to start position, do not collect 200 dollars.

If you want a fully honest opinion id have to question someone's thought process who after all the prior delays, would not just pay off 1200 bucks and settle the lien issue before feeding paperwork into the inflexible monster. That came back to bite you in the rear, and that was pretty forseeable.

I think you missed the entire basis for my post but thanks for your worthless input of how you would have done everything different now that you have watched the entire replay. Not really sure why you are even trolling (pun intended) this subforum if you are bothered by people pointing out the piss-poor job VW is doing regarding this buy-back program. As to my 'thought process' there was no delay prior to my submission of my claim, that was a period of time that VW was negotiating a resolution and in no way would have been an indication of how the buy-back would be managed and administrated, but continue to blame everyone else for not assuming VW would screw up such a simple task.

 

[PacCoastFwy923]

Well yeah, I suppose VW could have contracted with Bosch too design their buyback system.

Keep in mind VW, the court, and the lawyers thought any individual buyback would take 20 days plus two weeks to schedule. This payoff outcome wouldn't be a likely scenario under that timeline.

However, at this point, where applications are speeding through the process, resubmitting is only a minor inconvenience / delay (vs. a few months ago).