Hypermiling videos to better fuel consumption

Plus 3 Golfer

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I think the general rule of thumb when accelerating from a stop is to get to the tallest gear (no lugging) for the desired end speed as quick as possible (no tire spin please) and you will maximize fuel economy. Of course the desired end speed and how one does this can very considerably given traffic movement, timing of traffic lights and so forth.

Since I'm not flying airplanes but driving on surburban roads (speed limits 35 - 50 mph with traffic lights between 1/4 - 1 mile apart), I find that the best I can do (unless I'm first in line) is to keep up with the car infront of me.:D And I can guarantee that if I am first in line and try to time the next light by coasting so I don't have to brake, half a dozen cars will speed by me and cut infront only to have me brake for them or completely stop for the next light.

It's simple not practicable in normal driving to try to follow a % of throttle application or specific rpm shift points for each gear to accomplish the above.
 
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manual_tranny

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It's simple not practicable in normal driving to try to follow a % of throttle application or specific rpm shift points for each gear to accomplish the above.
Elegantly stated. In real life, with traffic and unpredictability, hypermiling becomes an art.
 

JettaTDiPA

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I am sure road & traffic conditions play into all of this- seemingly the smallest about of throttle required to obtain required speed is most efficient.

Aircraft typically stay at fuel throttle until a safe altitude is obtained (Altitude is your best friend in departure)

Throttle is then reduced at safe altitude then set at a rate of climb that burns the least throttle.
Like auto, much depends on conditions (and traffic control instruction).
Airline industry has performed much research and trial to ascertain the most fuel efficiency.
Does this relate to a TDI? I don't know.
 

biglipps66

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So for me next trip Ill be going through the long and steep hills of West Virginia... how should I go about going up and down the hills? Good throttle up Im assuming but should I coast down hill or just let off the throttle in 6th gear and have no consumption at all?
 

Vekke

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Uphills
For very long hills climb up in 6th gear at heavy load, try to keep rpm around 1800-2000 if possible. But don`t accelerate more speed in the uphill, you can lose little speed on the uphill section if the downhill starts right after and its also steep. If you come slower speed to the highest point your speed wont get so high in the downhill section. When you begin to glide in neutral.

Downhills
For downhill its better to go in neutral if you have manual and the balls to do it speed wise. In Finland the hills are not so long and deep to be a big problem but in the states they can be. If road is straight and there are no other cars I would not mind if speeds would rise even to 120 MPH, You using the potential energy you get from the diesel. If you start to press the brakes or otherwise slow down you will lose fuel. Again you have to decide what is wise for safety and so on but more speed is good for your fueleconomy

engine brake or neutral depends:
- from traffic
- grade
- speed limits and do you want to follow them
- your aero
- Your avg speed goal (even if your speeds will slow down in some long hill the difference to your avg speed is minimal. So glide the whole hill in neutral and right before the end of the hill accelerate again to your drive speed. That will give best fuel consumtion.
- fuel consumtion goals (more gliding in neutral better figures)
- few other factors

On long downhills if you know that you have to use engine brake in some point of the hill or even worse the regular brakes its more wise to start the glide in engine brake from the start, as soon as you know that you are happy with the speed drop on the top of the hill. It slows you down but save fuel.

Its very difficult to say what will work on all people and various TDI`s you will just have to test and practice your skills. At highest level of hypermiling it really becomes an art and you only learn it by driving and testing what works best on your car.

Note also that in small grades your eyes lies is it downhill or uphill. For that purposes you can use navigator which shows heigth from sealevel etc.
 

biglipps66

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Awesome info once again Vekke! Ill try this next weekend on my trip and report my results! My last trip I averaged 50.8 US mpg and was pretty happy about that, even with boosting for break in period.
 

Vekke

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Is the picture angle good or did you like more the headrest position like on the previous videos? Now its on the reverse mirror...
Is this quality good enough? It takes 3 hours to upload that long video with that quality. With full hd it takes over 60 hours and you have to start from the begin many times due to errors...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fZ8jlzzksA&feature=channel_video_title
 

VeeDubTDI

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I've been practicing these hypermiling techniques for the past few days in the TDI... Average MFA readings have gone from 45 MPG to between 55 and 62 MPG for 30 - 40 mile trips including cold starts. I suspect that the MFA readout is optimistic, but the point remains that I have significantly improved my average fuel economy.

The two biggest changes have been coasting in neutral and looking farther ahead in traffic so as to avoid using the brakes. I've also been trying to find trucks and stick with them as much as possible.

I will be tuning the ScanGauge over the next few tanks to get a more accurate fuel economy reading.
 

Vekke

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At least in my Cordoba 1.9 TDI the scangauge was not able to show correct figures when using P&G technigue I had to recalibrate it. My lupos onboard fuel gauge is correct with all technigues.

Good to hear that you have seen positive effects. The hardest thing is to start testing and trying various technigues. Only one tank should be enough to see positive effects.

On highway if you are not in a hurry best way is to stay behind slower big vehicle and wait for that big catch come sby you. By catch I mean bigger car that has much bigger frontal area and it is driving faster. Even better if the car/bus or truck is also very long.

What is the speedlimit to buses in the US?
 
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Plus 3 Golfer

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Generally, the speed limit of large trucks in the US is the same as autos. There are some freeways and interstate highways that do lower the speed limit for trucks by about 5 mph. I have driven extensively in the US and have found that most trucks travel within a few mph of the speed limit. Buses and autos tend to travel faster than the speed limit.

Buses are few and far between on the interstate highways. In fact on my recent 4500 mile road trip, I don't recall seeing any buses other than school buses.:D Trucks are like flys, they are everywhere. So, one can generally always find and follow trucks at right around the speed limits.

When I do draft trucks, my MFD mpg jumps up about 10% -15%. Again, the problem I have in drafting trucks is that they are traveling just to slow for me. A 5 mph difference in speed over a 1000 mile of driving in a day is over 1 hour of driving. Saving 2-3 gallons of fuel or so in 1000 miles (say $8 - $12) is not worth 1 hour of extra time driving.:D
 

Vekke

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I dont usually have the patience too, but if big trucks are driving the same speeds it makes it whole lot easier to practice hypermiling techigues at high speeds on the motorway. In Finland the trucks drive at least 25% slower on the summer. In winter there is not so much places to go by because roads are only two lanes (one in each direction so you have to drive behind the trucks sometimes very long times.

Always remember even it is more fuel efficient to be between two trucks dont do it. Slow down so much that the truck will pass you, and be last in the line.

I calculate it also so how much I value my freetime is usually more than what I can possibly save in fuel on the lupo. Ofcourse there is the speed ticket chance when going +10-20 mph over the speedlimit but again you have to make your own calculations. How often do you get those tickets and how big are they.
 

Grievous Angel

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Drafting behind a truck puts you at risk of a chipped or broken windshield. Also, in the summer months, stick your hand out the open window and see if any debris is being kicked up, sandblasting your finish.

It may not matter to you, but it does to me. I'll take the mpg hit to stay in clean air, and I have plenty of opportunity to draft on my commute.
 

MikeMars

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Trucks here are either limited to 60mph, 100kph, or 50mph (depending on various things), probably the same as Finland I guess.

Drafting behind a truck puts you at risk of a chipped or broken windshield
...
I stay a safe distance behind. The advantage is not so much drafting (only a very slight effect when you're 2 or 3 seconds behind), but in that other traffic is happy that you're going the same speed as the truck, whereas if you're on your own, then the other traffic sometimes becomes impatient.

... sandblasting your finish.
Another difference due to location - there's far too much rain here to allow the roads to become sandy! It's very obvious when you are travelling, older cars look very different in the USA compared to over here. Sunbaked + sandblasted versus mud-covered & dented. I've never ever seen those plastic nose-guard protector thingies over here (I don't remember what they're called).
 

NickBeek

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Mike, the plastic nose guard things are commonly referred to as a "bra". :)

I have been trying to implement some of the techniques from this thread into my daily driving. 1) It is work to practice these techniques, 2) I find it challenging at times.

Thanks for posting this info.
 

VeeDubTDI

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These techniques definitely require a lot more attention and concentration, but the payoff is there if you're not in a hurry or find it fun to see how good your fuel economy can get.
 

NickBeek

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I am trying to incorporate them into my daily driving when I can. I agree they definitely require more concentration. That may have a safety pay off though.....
 

VeeDubTDI

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Interesting experiment last night... left the block heater plugged in while I was at work yesterday and got ~5 MPG better on my 10 mile drive home from work using my now standard P&G techniques.
 

biglipps66

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After playing with these techniques the last 1000 miles Ive added to my average MPG per trip as well.

Frostheater install has been GREAT for my cold morning commutes though thats for certain. I would highly recommend the addition of a frostheater or block heater if you have cold weather.

I find myself watching traffic more closely now along with putting my foot into the peddle for better efficiency.
 

rocketeer928

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I really enjoyed the videos and learning your techniques, Vekke. I'll likely start accelerating up to speed a little faster now.

After reading through this thread, I'm guessing that you and other hypermilers are opposed to using cruise control on the highway. I'm a regular user of cruise control at 65 MPH.

The videos cause me to miss my year living in Europe (Deutschland) and driving there. I wish that trucks and buses were forced to keep their speeds down to 80 - 90 km/hr here in the U.S. for safety reasons. But, in the states, time always trumps safety due to the almighty dollar.

Interesting experiment last night... left the block heater plugged in while I was at work yesterday and got ~5 MPG better on my 10 mile drive home from work using my now standard P&G techniques.
Frostheater install has been GREAT for my cold morning commutes though thats for certain. I would highly recommend the addition of a frostheater or block heater if you have cold weather.
I also have and use a Frostheater for my morning commute into work in the winter. I've never performed the calculation, but I wonder which is more cost effective. To not use the Frostheater and pay for extra fuel a cold engine consumes (not accounting for a little extra wear and tear on the engine and my longer discomfort from being cold), or to use the Frostheater and pay the extra in the monthly household electricity cost. The Frostheater is on for about 2 hours at 1,000 watts.
 
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MikeMars

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... but I wonder which is more cost effective. To not use the Frostheater and pay for extra fuel a cold engine consumes (not accounting for a little extra wear and tear on the engine and my longer discomfort from being cold), or to use the Frostheater and pay the extra in the monthly household electricity cost. The Frostheater is on for about 2 hours at 1,000 watts.
Well, that depends on the cost of electricity in your area. But I'd be really surprised if the frostheater wasn't more cost effective, because the overhead of shipping diesel to the fuel station is quite high, compared to the electricity distribution system, and additionally your diesel is probably taxed higher than your electricity.
 

VeeDubTDI

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I know that electricity in CT is incredibly expensive. Here in VA it's about $0.08/kWhr... I think it's 5 times that in CT. :eek:

Even given the steep price of power up there, I think the warm engine and MPG increase will offset the cost of fuel if you're only running the heater for 2 hours prior to driving. Any longer and I don't think you'd see any savings.
 

Vekke

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It is already wise to start using the block heater when the temperatures are at +5 celsius or 41 fahrenheit. At those temperatures half an hour is enough up to -5 celsius. If its -5...-10 celsius 23-14 fahrenheit one hour
-10...-20 celsius or 14...-4 fahrenheit two hours is enough.

With those heating times you should get overall savings.

engine heated fuel consumtion will get better:
first kilometer fuel consumtion will be 45% less fuel
1-4 km over 20% less fuel

Other way to put it. Each cold start will burn 0.2-0.3 liters or 0.008 gallons of more fuel than fully warm up engine on the same route

 

trossbutler

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Just some follow up

I am sure road & traffic conditions play into all of this- seemingly the smallest about of throttle required to obtain required speed is most efficient.

Aircraft typically stay at fuel throttle until a safe altitude is obtained (Altitude is your best friend in departure)

Throttle is then reduced at safe altitude then set at a rate of climb that burns the least throttle.
Like auto, much depends on conditions (and traffic control instruction).
Airline industry has performed much research and trial to ascertain the most fuel efficiency.
Does this relate to a TDI? I don't know.
Just my two cents, with the different post (not just this one) on TDi’s compared to Aircraft and the acceleration fast or slow debate.
The new norm in aviation, (Turbo fan aircraft) Embraer, Bombardier, and Boeing is a reduced thrust (Flex), or “de-rate” thrust take-off. Embraer uses a built in T/O-1, or T/O-2, A FADEC calculated reduction in thrust per the current condition (1=10% 2= 20% reduction). Boeing & Bombardier use an “assumed temperature” to get the FADEC’s or EEC’s to perform a reduction in take off thrust. Boeing also has flat reduction rates similar to Embraer called T/O 1 & T/O 2 combined with CLB 1/ CLB 2, 1=10% reduction 2=20% reduction. The 747 Dream lifter can even perform a “double de-rate”.
Now that I just inundated you with pilot nonsense, bottom line slower starts are better. Lower temperatures save on maintenance & wear. The higher the temps the more general wear the engine experiences.
The other point is that yes, aircraft do want to expedite their climb to cruising altitude, but for very different purpose. The higher up in altitude you go the lower the drag, due to lower air density. The engine performs better (lower air density, reduces the fuel used per the fuel air ratio require up high). And the colder temperatures at altitude reduce engine wear from heat.
The only way to mimic the benefits the aviation industry has developed IMOHO, is to start off the line slower, reduce drag (following a truck, no roof racks, etc.), and the good old classic Idle downhill coast to a stop.
The above are all exactly what most hyper-millers preach, and other than driving from the low lands up to the top of a mountain (take advantage of lower air density), that’s about all we can do, less modifications etc.
Cheers,
 

Van Wylder

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So for me next trip Ill be going through the long and steep hills of West Virginia... how should I go about going up and down the hills? Good throttle up Im assuming but should I coast down hill or just let off the throttle in 6th gear and have no consumption at all?

Those downhills on 77 are massive. You'll save some fuel for sure. My advice: clutch it until 80% of the way down.
 

Forza91

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Hey Vekke, first off: awesome videos! I'm only just halfway through my first fill up and I've hit 300 on my trip meter, but I would like to squeeze as much mileage from my tank as possible so I'll definitely try and apply some of these techniques next time I'm driving. However I don't exactly get P&G... What exactly do you do?? I've tried looking for an explanation, but all I've come up with are mentions of it on the various other hypermilling threads and not a real explanation.

Are you supposed to accelerate to x speed and then let the car coast, with the clutch pressed, back to another set speed? Then repeat? For example you accelerate to 75mph then push the clutch in and let the car coast down to 65 then accelerate back to 75 and so on and so forth? Have I got the gist of it? if that's the case how is it more efficient that say leaving the car @ 70mph with CC on
 

Vekke

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If you want to see amazing fuel consumtion figures use push and glide from 45 to 55 range. That means accerate flat out to 55 MPH with 4 gear. Put the car in neutral and and dont leave the clucth pedal down. When your speeds slows down to 45 put again 4 gear in and floor it to 55 and start coasting. With this speed range you can get up to 10% better fuel consumption. on flat ground, also in hilly routes but it takes more practice there to master it perfectly.

On higher speeds like 65 to 75MPH there is not so big gain beacause your drag is also quite big and your speed slows down fast. My personal rule of thumb is that if the accerelation and glide times are pretty same its not worth it.

So you got it right dont leave the clutch pedal down while doing it because your clutch bearing will worn out faster ;)
 

whitevanman

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I have always been taught that an ideling engine uses more fuel on idle than under load??
 

TDIMeister

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Relative to the power generated (very little, only to drive accessories, overcome friction and keep the engine running), it is more. This is the concept of BSFC - brake specific fuel consumption in grams per kilowatt hour or pounds per horsepower hour. But it's logical that when more work (load) is done an engine is going to use more fuel. When under load, an engine generally operates at lower BSFC or less lb/HPhr, but there are just much more HPs, so the overall fuel consumption increases. It is rare, indeed almost unprecedented, for an engine to consume less fuel overall between two operating points because the drop in BSFC more than offsets the increase of load.
 
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