How to test BEW Cam/Crank Sensors?

[CentrlFLtdi]

Hello all. I got an 04 PD that runs like the timing is extremely retarded. I've read through the threads, and it leads me to believe that I may have one of two problems. Either the sensors are faulty or the timing belt is off (BTW it is not throwing any codes whatsoever). I'm waiting on the timing tools to show up from Europe, but after reading and rereading the Bentley, I don't see a way to test the Cam sensor and the Crank sensor to make sure they are ok (unless I'm extremely blind and can't see it).

Any ideas from the gurus? Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[oilhammer]

Check the torsion adjustment with the scan tool, forget which Group but it will be in Block 4, somewhere in the first few Groups of the engine ECU.

Should be at "0".

Plenty of those tools here, not sure why you are waiting for some from Europe.

 

[jetta 97]

here you go:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=215202&highlight=idle+problem+on+mk5

 

[jetta 97]

Check the torsion adjustment with the scan tool, forget which Group but it will be in Block 4, somewhere in the first few Groups of the engine ECU.

Should be at "0".

Plenty of those tools here, not sure why you are waiting for some from Europe.

row 4,the last one

 

[CentrlFLtdi]

Check the torsion adjustment with the scan tool, forget which Group but it will be in Block 4, somewhere in the first few Groups of the engine ECU.

Should be at "0".

Plenty of those tools here, not sure why you are waiting for some from Europe.

Is there a way to run an ohm meter across the leads to check? Just curious. Also, as you know there's a lot more PD's in Europe than the US, hence tools and parts are quite a bit more reasonable there if you have the patience for the shipping. Thanks again for any suggestions.

 

[oilhammer]

Is there a way to run an ohm meter across the leads to check? Just curious. Also, as you know there's a lot more PD's in Europe than the US, hence tools and parts are quite a bit more reasonable there if you have the patience for the shipping. Thanks again for any suggestions.

An ohm check will only tell you if the circuit is open, something your ECU does every single time you turn the key on. You do not have a sensor problem, or the engine would not start, or have an extremely long crank time and run in limp mode with the MIL staring you in the face.

Chances are you have an issue that is not related to the torsion adjustment anyways, to be honest.

And as far as tools from Europe, the couple tools needed to do the timing belt on the PD can be had here for probably less than the shipping. Not sure where you are shopping for stuff, but you may look here:

www.metalnerd.com

www.tools.vw.com

 

[CentrlFLtdi]

Well, it is not the timing belt or the crank sensor. I finally got my timing tools in and checked, it is right on the money. I also replaced the crank sensor, but the problem remains. It is still running like it is retarded and in also pings somewhat. I am getting stumped. Any ideas anybody?

 

[MOGolf]

History of the car? What happened before "...trying to bring back to life"?

EGR clogged up?
Fuel filter changed?
Air filter changed?
Did one or more ceramic glow plugs break off inside the engine and do damage?

Obviously, you don't have VCDS and are taking the "guess and throw parts at it" approach. We can only guess along with you.

 

[oilhammer]

Have you removed the valve cover and checked the condition of the camshaft?

 

[CentrlFLtdi]

History of the car? What happened before "...trying to bring back to life"?
Obviously, you don't have VCDS and are taking the "guess and throw parts at it" approach. We can only guess along with you.

180K miles on it. 5-speed, Do not have any previous history on the vehicle since it was bought "as is" for close to nothing. I have run VCDS on the vehicle and get no codes. Having said that, it idles perfect, but as soon as you give it some fuel it starts pinging and sounding like it is retarded and blows chunks of soot out the back. I will be taking the valve cover off this weekend and take detailed pics of the cam, etc. I will also remove the glow plugs and inspect them. I am trying to rule out the easy stuff first. I do hope that local guru Gary will be able to stop by and have a look at it. I am just trying to figure out what the heck is wrong with it.

 

[oilhammer]

Well, the camshaft IS the easy stuff. Takes less than 5 minutes to get the valve cover off (you'll need to remove the EGR valve first on the BEW).

 

[jasonTDI]

^^^ what O.H. said and no money out of pocket for it. Bet it's got a bad intake lifter.

 

[CentrlFLtdi]

^^^ what O.H. said and no money out of pocket for it. Bet it's got a bad intake lifter.

Gary suggested that the vanes could be stuck on the turbo. That is something I will be curious to check out. I will definitely start w/ the valve cover to look @ the cam, then move to glow plugs. Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

[oilhammer]

If the turbo was stuck, you'd have an MIL staring you in the face, and the subsequent boost-related DTC(s).

Also, the BEW has a VNT vane position sensor, so that would even double check the N75's function.

 

[CentrlFLtdi]

Ok, I had the chance today to check the engine on the Jetta and here's what I found out.

I removed the glow plugs and checked them. Below is a picture

Next I removed the valve cover and took photos of the cam lobes. Here's the pics.

While there is some wear on the cam, it is smooth to the touch, the pics do make it look worse than it feels.


Here's a shot of the EGR valve

Then I put it all back together and ran the engine to full temp. Here's the screen shot of Group4

Finally I ran a system scan and wouldn't you know it, it came back with some codes. The scan is listed below.

Sunday,22,November,2009,13:42:23:05352

Data version: 20091018



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 1J - VW Golf/Bora IV
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57 75
76

VIN: WVWSR61J Mileage: 307510km/191077miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 038-906-016-BEW.lbl
Part No SW: 038 906 016 H HW: 028 101 114 6
Component: R4 1,9L EDC G000SG 6327
Revision: 12345678 Serial number:
Coding: 0150031
Shop #: WSC

3 Faults Found:
16497 - Intake Air Temp. Sensor (G42): Signal too High
P0113 - 000 - -
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Torque: 0.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 12.92 V
Temperature: 133.2°C
Temperature: 35.1°C
Temperature: 32.4°C

18000 - Altitude Sensor / Boost Pressure Sensor: Implausible Correlation
P1592 - 000 - -
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Torque: 0.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 12.92 V
Bin. Bits: 00001100
Absolute Pres.: 999.6 mbar
Absolute Pres.: 2182.8 mbar

16622 - Manifold Pressure / Boost Sensor (G31): Signal too High
P0238 - 000 - -
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Torque: 0.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 12.62 V
Bin. Bits: 00001100
Absolute Pres.: 153.0 mbar
Absolute Pres.: 2182.8 mbar

Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ABS.lbl
Part No: 1C0 907 379 L
Component: ABS FRONT MK60 0101
Coding: 0001025
Shop #: WSC 01266 785 00200

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
Part No: 1C0 909 605 F
Component: 17 AIRBAG VW61 0108 0003
Coding: 12599
Shop #: WSC 01266

1 Fault Found:
00532 - Supply Voltage B+
07-10 - Signal too Low - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
Part No: 1J5 920 906 Q
Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V03
Coding: 15232
Shop #: WSC 00000
WVWSR61J34W166394 VWZ7Z0D9332410

1 Fault Found:
00771 - Fuel Level Sensor (G)
30-10 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Part No: 6N0 909 901
Component: Gateway K<->CAN 0001
Coding: 00006
Shop #: WSC 01266

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
Part No: 1C0 959 799 C
Component: 8A Komfortgerát HLO 0003
Coding: 00258
Shop #: WSC 01266

Part No: 1C1959801A
Component: 8A Tõrsteuer.FS KLO 0202

Part No: 1C1959802A
Component: 8A Tõrsteuer.BF KLO 0202

Part No: 1C0959811A
Component: 8A Tõrsteuer.HL KLO 0202

Part No: 1C0959812A
Component: 8A Tõrsteuer.HR KLO 0202

1 Fault Found:
01359 - Internal Central Locking Switch; Passenger Side (E198)
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio Labels: 3B7-035-1xx-56.lbl
Part No: 3B7 035 180 G
Component: Radio PM6 0016
Coding: 00031
Shop #: WSC 01266

1 Fault Found:
01336 - Data Bus for Comfort System
37-10 - Faulty - Intermittent

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------


Up until now, I had no codes, I don't know where these came from. Anybody have any ideas as to how to proceed?

 

[PDJetta]

That is a bunch. Odd. Clear the codes and see if they come back.

How do the lifter faces look? Can you get some pictures of those?

--Nate

 

[oilhammer]

Replace the "thrust" sensor. It is in the top of the intercooler, that is your problem. There is a part number right on it.

 

[CentrlFLtdi]

Replace the "thrust" sensor. It is in the top of the intercooler, that is your problem. There is a part number right on it.

Just curious, what is the function of the "thrust" sensor? I will be replacing it this week though.

 

[MOGolf]

It tells the ECM how much pressure is in the intake so the amount of air can be calculated. Check the wiring to it. It may be misrouted and damaged by the power steering pulley. The sensor is behind and below the right headlight. The wiring should run along the rigid intake pipe on the side away from the engine.

 

[oilhammer]

It also has integrated into it the intake air temp sensor. Both G72 (MAP) and G71 (IAT) are contained inside that one sensor atop the intercooler.

The part number is 038-906-XXX (can't remember the last part).

 

[CentrlFLtdi]

Picked up the sensor today. Won't get to work on the car till this weekend. I'll be tearing out the front end to repair other issues with the car (busted radiator support and headlight), and will replace it then. Thanks again for all the insight. I'll report back asa it is changed.

 

[MOGolf]

You didn't mention any of that damage before. Sheeeeeesh.

You should probably check to see if the intercooler is in one piece or even present. I saw a car get the intercooler (along with the sensor) get ripped out of a NB just be hitting tire remains.

 

[CentrlFLtdi]

You didn't mention any of that damage before. Sheeeeeesh.

You should probably check to see if the intercooler is in one piece or even present. I saw a car get the intercooler (along with the sensor) get ripped out of a NB just be hitting tire remains.

The damage was really not bad at all. Just a slightly bent hood and a pierced D-side headlight. Didn't notice the radiator support problem till I was cleaning the intercooler as part of the rehab process. It is possible that the sensor took a hit from the headlight. Below is a picture of the original damage. As you can see it is not much.

Again, I picked up this '04 wagon for less than $2K no questions, no history. So, as you well know, you get what you pay for.

I'm just trying to bring this girl back to life. I will post more pics of the project as I get them. Again, thanks 4 all the good info.

 

[jasonTDI]

umm...anyone else notice the fact that the car read zero RPM's? You'll get codes like that if the car is off sometimes.

 

[CentrlFLtdi]

Hope everybody had a good holiday. Here's an update: I replaced the thrust sensor with a new one today. It did not make a bit of difference. Not really sure how to proceed. Should I pull the head off?

 

[MOGolf]

Is the wiring intact?

 

[04tdiwagon]

I would really like to see where this goes, as I have an 04 wagon that has similar problems to yours except no pinging. Mine will smoke white excessively at start up and clear up within 5 seconds. It is extremely hard to start while cold, is yours?

 

[CentrlFLtdi]

I would really like to see where this goes, as I have an 04 wagon that has similar problems to yours except no pinging. Mine will smoke white excessively at start up and clear up within 5 seconds. It is extremely hard to start while cold, is yours?

It is if I don't cycle the key about 3 or 4 times before starting it.

The conspiracy theorist in me is wondering it somebody went in there and changed the settings on the computer and could not get them set back. Also, the advance ID shows that it has never been flashed. Info below.

Saturday,28,November,2009,11:18:48:05352
VCDS Version: Release 908.1
Address 01: Engine
Control Module Part Number: 038 906 016 H
Component and/or Version: R4 1,9L EDC G000SG 6327
Software Coding: 0150031
Work Shop Code: WSC 00000

Advanced Identification
Serial number:

Identification: BPG-810
Revision: 12345678
Date: 23.02.04
Manufacturer number: 0373
Test stand number: 1888
Flash Status
Programming Attempts: 0
Successful Attempts: 1
Programming Status: 00000000
Required Conditions: 00000001
Flash Tool Code: 00000 000 00000
Flash Date: 00.00.00
Software
P0101
U+8A7
Misc.
Hardware number: 028 101 114 6
Car Info
[FONT=&quot] Chassis Number: [/FONT]

 

[CentrlFLtdi]

Does anybody know if there's a way to set the ecu back to the factory settings? I'm curious to see if there's a flash that can be done or can I send it off to get checked and programmed?

 

[CentrlFLtdi]

I hope you all know that I'm not upset w/ anybody for giving me advice and/or things to try out. This car is a replacement if/when I can get it running. I'm not afraid to try things on it since I bought it for close to nothing.

I do hope to still get some input from you guys and it is really appreciated. Thanks.