How to: solve the 04 BEW hard starts and 16705 G28 fault code.

turbocharged798

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Location
Ellenville, NY
TDI
99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
Should be doing this in about a week. Looking forward to it! Hopefully it will resolve my issues.
Make sure you get the latest glow plug recall done first to be sure that the TSB works the best. Also if you have VCDS, check your torsen(crank to cam timing) to make sure its not too far out.
 

PDJetta

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 6, 2003
Location
Northern Virginia
TDI
'04 Jetta GLS TDI Pumpe Duce Platinum Grey w/ Leather
I finally got to try a 40 degree F. cold engine start. There was absolutely no difference in the high smoke level and engine miss for a few seconds after performing this TSB:(. It is the same as before performing the TSB.

I think I have either an injector issue or GP/software issue. A few months after the PD was introduced in the USA, VW changed the injectors in it to alleviate this contition I believe. I have the old style.

--Nate
 

FordGuy100

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Location
Silverton, OR
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI
I finally got to try a 40 degree F. cold engine start. There was absolutely no difference in the high smoke level and engine miss for a few seconds after performing this TSB:(. It is the same as before performing the TSB.

I think I have either an injector issue or GP/software issue. A few months after the PD was introduced in the USA, VW changed the injectors in it to alleviate this contition I believe. I have the old style.

--Nate
Whats your build date?

Both of our TDI's are late 2003 build dates. Mine starts horrible cold...but my wifes starts quick but has a slight engine miss right after start up and then goes away within half a second.
 

PDJetta

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 6, 2003
Location
Northern Virginia
TDI
'04 Jetta GLS TDI Pumpe Duce Platinum Grey w/ Leather
Whats your build date?

Both of our TDI's are late 2003 build dates. Mine starts horrible cold...but my wifes starts quick but has a slight engine miss right after start up and then goes away within half a second.
Mine was built October 2003.

Here is the TSB that covers injector replacement (its no longer in force) for rough starts when below 20 degrees F. for the early PDs:

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/BEW_Injector_Replacement_TSB005.pdf

Its dated early 2005, so maybe it was in late '04 that the injectors were revised.

Notice that it states (in the flow chart) that for an '04 BEW, to first do the extra ground wire TSB before performing this TSB and no further action is required (to see if that corrects the issue and if not, replace the injectors, GP, GP controller, and reflash the ECU). The '05 BEWs must have had this extra ground wire in place from the factiry, but my Bentley makes no differientiation between the '04 and '05 BEW speed sensor wiring (both diagrams show the splice in the wiring harness that the first TSB fixes). But Bentley is notorious about not picking up on updates.

I elected not to have the injector replacement TSB done because I saw the potential for substantial damage caused by the dealer due to incompetency. Injector replacement, if not done correctly, can really f$*& up your engine.

--Nate
 
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turbocharged798

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Location
Ellenville, NY
TDI
99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
I finally got to try a 40 degree F. cold engine start. There was absolutely no difference in the high smoke level and engine miss for a few seconds after performing this TSB:(. It is the same as before performing the TSB.

I think I have either an injector issue or GP/software issue. A few months after the PD was introduced in the USA, VW changed the injectors in it to alleviate this contition I believe. I have the old style.

--Nate
Get the latest GP recall done and it will fix the smoke issue. The TSB clearly states that you need to have the software to go along with it. I know 03 software probably won't work with it.

No need to touch the injectors.
 

rzracer

New member
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Location
Florida
TDI
2004 tdi pd
wet start salvation

Thanks so much for this post. My 04 BEW cranked forever on wet days but on dry days it fired right up no mater what the temperature. I followed your directions, added the ground wire and after a down pour it fired right up. Living in Florida that's important. It is sad that the dealership couldn't tell me about the TSB but this is the same place that botched my EGR replacement, leaving the bracket off and causing a pipe failure. Your directions were so easy to follow and the photos were great.
 

pruzink

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2004
Location
Granbury, Texas
TDI
GLS, 2004, silver
I have a 2004 PD Jetta that I am currently having a problem with intermittent stalls at idle. I am wondering if this G28 speed sensor ground wire TSB could help correct. After reading the recent thread about adjusting cam timing by looking at "Torsion Value" with Vagcom I checked mine & found it to be -1.5. I thought that seemed lower than where most people had their set so I advanced it to 0. At -1.5 the car started really easy, at 0 is starts kind of hard & is a bit rough at idle. Advancing the timing made the stalling problem worse, so tomorrow I will set it back. I am not getting a code for G28 Engine Speed ; but I do get an occasional code for camshaft position (usually that occurs around cruising RPMs though, not idle RPM).

I already replaced the in-tank lift pump & cleaned the EGR valve. Today I inspected the camshaft & all of the cam chamfers looked good & the lifters looked good (I have 150,000 miles on engine). For the most part, the engine speed signal looks good when I have watched it with Vagcom; however this is a rather intermittent problem & there has been times where I saw Vagcom engine speed change 50 RPM at idle & it didn't sound like the engine speed changed. I think that at idle if G28 incorrectly reports that the engine speed is too high (say 940 RPM versus 900), the ECU cut back on fuel to lower the engine RPM that it could create a stall. Did anyone look at that engine speed signal prior to doing this TSB to see what G28 was actually telling the ECU? Did anyone have any stalling issues?
 

73veedubya

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Location
Montana
TDI
04 Jetta GLS 5 Speed
so what im reading is that to be able to do this you need the latest GP recall update...and the ecu update...cause i am having this same issue..just replaced the sensor...and still not starting..i was told it could also be something with the ring gear or something like that...
 

dschultz

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Location
Virginia
TDI
2005 Jetta Wagon
Oilhammer,

Would it be possible to send me the TSB for the ECU harness repair?

I have a 2005 Jetta and would like to know if this fix applies.

I experience long crank times when engine hot; sometime 15 seconds or more.

Thoughts?
 

pedroYUL

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2011
Location
MI, USA
TDI
2004 wagon BEW; 2015 Passat CVCA; 2015 GSW CRUA
Subscribing. I have an on/off small loss of power and my car does not fire right up. It cranks for 1s max maybe 2s in the winter, but would like a touch start

Edit: I had to open the area to fix my wipers' linkage. The fix was already done by the previous owner.
 
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izodhalo

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Location
Northeastern NC
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI 5spd, 2005 NB TDI Auto (wife)
Fixed

I did this fix a few weeks ago and it 100% fixed my long/hard cranks. I wasn't experiencing any power loss or any other symptoms besides longer than normal cranking, usually after the car has been sitting for a few hours. It would sometimes take 4 to 5 solid seconds of turning over before the engine would start, and I didn't have any smoke. It would also give me the occasional blinking glow plug light and check engine light, the G28 fault code.

Since the fix I have started the car maybe 45-50 times and not once have I had a longer than half a second to maybe 3/4 second start. It worked great and was fairly easy to do. Just make sure you take off the secondary barrier from the ECU plug before trying to remove the black connector plug. Also, anyone having trouble getting the wiper arms off, jiggle them in all directions while applying light pressure to lift them off. Mine were stuck on there pretty good and I tried several methods, but just found that if you give them enough vibration they will let go.
 

AFSOC_Commando

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Location
Martinsburg, WV
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS TDI, 2014 Passat TDI SEL
Oilhammer,

Would it be possible to send me the TSB for the ECU harness repair?

I have a 2005 Jetta and would like to know if this fix applies.

I experience long crank times when engine hot; sometime 15 seconds or more.

Thoughts?

I am curious as well.... Last year it took 20-30 minutes sometimes before my 2005 PD would start. Embarrassing as hell.
 

halocline

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Location
San Antonio
TDI
04 Jetta Wagon
My 04 has the 5V steel plugs and reflash, I wonder if this TSB will work for me? What I have is longer crank times when the engine is warm. No other symptoms.

Thanks again for posting this great thread!
 

browley4

Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2008
Location
Lowell, MI
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI 2013 Passat SE
Starts as good as it did before VW messed it up!!!

My 04 Jetta always started great. No problems at -15F. Had the recall for the 5v steelies done. Lots of problems. Had to cycle the glow plugs. Installed a frost heater. Got the upgrade to the 7V ceramic 08's and the BRM injectors. Better for a while, but still didn't start right. Put up with it for years. Finally didn't make it in to work a few weeks ago. 28 degrees and would not start. Car starts well most times when it is warm.

1. Bought a new Passat. Now I can take the Jetta off the road for the repairs.
2. Had Autozone scan the codes. #1 and #2 glow plug and P0276 ESS codes showing.
3. Replaced all glow plugs with 09's. Bought them from the stealer for $52 a set. Didn't want to wait to order them online. Saw significant improvement. #3 plug was not tight. I think that I was losing some compression. The symptom of a week cylinder went away with the GP change. Still have long crank times when cold.
4. Asked Autozone to clear the codes to see what would show back up. Their scanner had the erase code fucntion diaabled. (Lawsuit driven) Rented the scanner from them. The rental scanner units will clear the codes. Cleared codes. P0276 ESS code returned when starting cold engine. Glow plug codes are gone.
5. So I have 3 choices to pursue. Replace the sensor, tear into the wire harness to evaluate the reported chafing problem, or perform the TSB for separating the ground wires for the two speed sensors. Research on the sensor showed that it was not the likely culprit. Decided to go with the ground wire TSB. Bought the $7 wire from the stealer. (there can't be more than $0.05 cost in that thing) Followed the install instructions. Cleared the codes again. Fihished the job around 8PM on New Years Eve. Car had been sitting for approx. 6.5 hours with install and the part and windshield wiper arm tool trips. Fired right up. Seemed much better. The true test would be sitting over night Started the car the next morning. No more long crank times. This thing now starts perfect!


I am suspecting that the ECU flash during one of the two glow plug updates that were done actually required the new ground to make things operate properly. VW probably should have included this in the GP recall procedure. If you are having problems with long crank times start here.

Wasn't quite sure how to get the plastic terminal plug out of the connector body. Pull the purple slide lock on the side of the connector body out. This will release the snap feature on the plastic plug allowing it to slide out easily.
 

turbocharged798

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Location
Ellenville, NY
TDI
99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
What happened in my situation is that my BEW was starting slow pre-reflash and became very hard to start post-reflash. I agree with the statement that the reflash was intended to work with the TSB and will make the situation worse if done on a car that already has a starting issue. Considering VW's complete inability to do things correctly the first time around, this doesn't surprise me. There should be a note to the techs to do the TSB when flashing a 04 car.

As a side note, my BEW has a starting issue again but I think its the starter now. Cranks over pretty slow and battery is new.
 

mittzlepick

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2001
Location
union maine
TDI
2004 jetta wagon (365k)2001 wagon tire burner 6spd 2003 wagon(417k)
can this wire be sourced from an unused plug somewhere on the car?
 

PDJetta

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 6, 2003
Location
Northern Virginia
TDI
'04 Jetta GLS TDI Pumpe Duce Platinum Grey w/ Leather
I don't think it does and I probably would not do it if you are not having issues. I did the TSB on my '04 and it is an early '04, manufactured October 2003, and I noticed no difference afterwards in the way it started.

--Nate
 

drywaller

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Location
USA
TDI
VDUBS
the reason I ask is because my VCDS is showing a no signal code from the cam position sensor
 

winks

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Location
mississauga
Thanks for the post!!! Our 04 jwagon has been plagued with the hard to start when damp/raining issue since the second round of gp recall. The last few months it got so bad it was taking a dozen tries to get the car going on rainy days....until last week when it just didn't want to start at all. Scanned it and got the g28 code then found this thread!! $15 for the wire and about an hr of work, the car starts like it did when new. Cheers to you good sir:D
 

nsf

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 24, 2006
Location
Port Credit Ontario
TDI
2003&2004 Jetta TDI's
We just got in a 2004 Jetta wagon (BEW) the date of production I think is 11/03 (2004 model year)

It would crank for a 5-6 seconds before starting, and would code for the speed sensor (crank sensor) intermittently also after extended cranking the ESP light would also go on.
Battery is new, cranking speed is great.

Checked torsional timing and adjusted to 0.05 it was -1.5

Did this TSB the difference is unbelievable! Now starts first click of the starter (as is should).

Thank again for the wonderful write up made the task very easy!
Mike
 

turbocharged798

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Location
Ellenville, NY
TDI
99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
Thanks, glad this is helping out people.

Another thing that helped starting a LOT is that I cleaned out the starter brushes. They get filled with dust after a while and they can hang a bit causing poor starter performance. The bendex drive also hangs from clutch dust. A good starter complete dis-assembly, cleaning and lubing made a huge difference in cranking speed.
 

dieselovin

Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2013
Location
Philadelphia, PA
TDI
2004 Jetta Wagon PD
I made this fix and it seems to have worked after a car wash and some decent rain this weekend. Thanks!

The only issue is, I can't get the cowling to sit as flat as it was which is a bit of a bummer. It seems that the clip attached to the windshield is bending back as I try to snap it into place in one spot. It's in front of where the air filter goes and I tried holding it up with a screwdriver as I pressed down but that didn't go so well.

I'm considering just running a bead of silicone down the crack. Any other suggestions before I do that? How critical is this seal?
 

Dimitri16V

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Location
DE
TDI
01 Golf, 04 Golf
I made this fix and it seems to have worked after a car wash and some decent rain this weekend. Thanks!

The only issue is, I can't get the cowling to sit as flat as it was which is a bit of a bummer. It seems that the clip attached to the windshield is bending back as I try to snap it into place in one spot. It's in front of where the air filter goes and I tried holding it up with a screwdriver as I pressed down but that didn't go so well.

I'm considering just running a bead of silicone down the crack. Any other suggestions before I do that? How critical is this seal?

yeah . that's common. Pound it in place with your fist or a PLASTIC object and it will click in to place
 

tongsli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2000
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
I made this fix and it seems to have worked after a car wash and some decent rain this weekend. Thanks!

The only issue is, I can't get the cowling to sit as flat as it was which is a bit of a bummer. It seems that the clip attached to the windshield is bending back as I try to snap it into place in one spot. It's in front of where the air filter goes and I tried holding it up with a screwdriver as I pressed down but that didn't go so well.

I'm considering just running a bead of silicone down the crack. Any other suggestions before I do that? How critical is this seal?
make sure you clean the channel out very well. It doesn't take much to keep it out. Also, clean the plastic piece and the tongue.

Make sure the tongue is not buggered up.

Silicone is a great idea, I do this when re-installing mine. This is a very important piece as it acts like a piece of flashing and helps to drain water to the wheel well where it sits and rusts your front fenders!
 

TDI4all

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Location
Buford,Ga.
TDI
2004 Jetta 5spd
I read some place that you could place the ground wire on the block instead of having to pull the ECU out. I would like to find out more about that option....seems simpler and less intrusive.
 

tjsean0308

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Location
port angeles, wa
TDI
MKIV wagon 5spd graphite blue
I've got an appointment Wednesday to check my software version and see if I can do this. I have had long cranks, smoke and had my first no start followed by check engine light this morning. I'll post back with the latest from the WVOA dealer network. Keep your fingers crossed.
 
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