How to re & re the starter

[jcilforever]

Also works better than white lithium on door hinges, used to have to do one a year but it has been longer with no squeaks.

BTW still no more noise from starter!

 

[Drewmeister]

So I did this about a month ago, and it was great for a while. Then the starter gradually started gradually getting slower and now it's back to where it was before -- pretty slow to turn over (especially between the first and second revolutions when cold), but not in danger of failing to start.

I fully disassembled it, cleaned everything with solvent, and lightly greased bushing surfaces with high-temp lithium wheel bearing grease (blue stuff). Also greased up the planetary gear set. Wrong kind of grease, or starter just wearing out and time for a new one?

Brushes, commutator, and windings looked fine, normal wear but not worn out, especially after I cleaned up the carbon dust, but I may have missed something. Also, the brushes were a real pain to get back on -- I ended up zip-tying them in the holders, sliding them halfway onto the commutator, and then cutting the zip-ties.

 

[mrrhtuner]

Great thread, going to do mine this weekend!

 

[midairmark]

Just replaced the starter on my 6 speed conversion. Don't know if the 6 speed starter is different then the 5 speed (# 02M 911 023A). I was smart enough to get an extra from RyanP....

As everyone else, thought it was the battery getting weak. Put in a new battery and didn't really improve. Then after charging it for 2 days and reading this thread, knew it was probably the starter. Starts like it is on steroids

 

[oh_yeatdi]

cleaned my starter last night, following a few guides, and there is a HUGE improvement. This article simply states to grease the gearing, but the post below actually cleans the contact points, so it is s a big step up in performance.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...Grind-Fix-and-Starter-Motor-Replacement/page3

http://goldwingdocs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=259

Basically, once the starter is in two pieces, push the shaft out, then, just take off the two screws on the top, remove the c clip and washer, then, gently slide the brush assembly off. Clean it all up using rubbing alcohol, paper towels, and fine sand paper, as well as the back of a box cutter blade for cleaning out the commutator's grooves. I used some high temp wheel bearing grease on all the gearing and and shafts.

The following video is fantastic in showing the steps:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJM2veUNBc0

My only tip on reassembly is that you suppress the brush springs with small zip ties to allow you to get the assembly back over the commutator, as it is impossible otherwise.

 

[sparkplugg]

I had the symptoms of a squeal after starting and a very slow crank (as if the starter was in a bind). After disassembling the starter, all I noticed was a small amont of dust at various areas and that the 3 orbital gears were dry. All gears were spinning freely. I felt frustrated because I thought that I still had not found the root cause for the slow, seemingly burdened cranking. I had already cleaned ground wire contacts. Since I had the starter apart, I used contact cleaner to clean the motor magnets inside the case. I did not use contact cleaner on the windings, but only blew them off for fear of damaging the clear coat on the windings. I blew off the orbital gears and greased with hi temp grease. It is amazing what a little clean up and grease did here for my starter. My car cranks fas now and fires right up. Mucho Thanks.

 

[sparkplugg]

Update to my Starter Woes

So it's been 2 weeks since I cleaned and lubed my starter. This morning I am leaving to go to work and my car cranks 1 turn and stops. No crank, no click, nothing. Battery voltage at 13 volts. Bought a starter, put it in and it cranks right up like a champ. I know this is the Solenoid that crapped out. I could have just changed the solenoid but would have had to ordered one and wait, so changed starter and sol. I should have just changed it out when I cleaned it. This cost me 4 hours work today.

 

[TheEagle]

hi,i have a vw bora 1.9 tdi AJM 86 kw.i have some problem with the cable from solenoid.i dont get any signal to that cable(my car now starts directly from the baterry).It s there a relay or it s the electric part from the contact?

 

[sparkplugg]

As your solenoid is dying a slow death (as mine has over the last couple years), the slow crank experienced is causing the big black wire at the fusible link to overheat. I was lucky because my solenoid quit completely prior to completely melting the plastic fusible link panel. As it is my panel is just very slightly deformed (almost not noticeable). The red insulator plastic on the battery positive side is a little darker red than it once was. A solenoid going out causes a high current draw through this wire, and even more so in the large black wire. Replace a dying solenoid before you fry your fusible link mounting panel.

 

[mrrhtuner]

I'm going to tackle this job this weekend, what would you guys recommend for grease to use on the gears? Wheel Bearing Lube?

Would Valvoline multi-purpose grease work fine?


Edit: Went to buffalo and purchased Royal Purple 01312 NLGI No. 2 High Performance Multi-Purpose Synthetic Ultra Performance Grease from Napa

 

[sebastien]

I also found that the one was bearing died on my starter. The solution is simple juste uncrimp the bearing change or respring the 6 small springs and recrimp it all back. This will fix your starter.
The common problem to this is that you will have your starter kick out and spin but not the engine but you can here the starter turn.

 

[bigolac]

Just successfully completed putting in a new starter this morning - it's a night and day difference. Granted, it's about 40 degrees warmer this morning than it was a week ago at this time, but I'm confident it will be starting with no problem when it gets colder..

I think the toughest part I had was getting the 13mm nut that's underneath the wiring shroud - once I tackled that, I was home free.

Thanks for the great write-up!

- Adam

 

[mrrhtuner]

Just completed the starter rebuild. I used Royal Purple Synthetic grease and I also installed the new bushing/brushbox.

I used this as a guide:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJM2veUNBc0

I purchased this from the youtube channel,

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/150811463257...X:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649#ht_1424wt_1102

I greased up the gears and shaft quite a bit as it was pretty dry. The toughest part was that annoying 13mm nut behind the plastic wiring shroud.

The job was very easy and the car starts a whole lot better now!

 

[mrrhtuner]

Son of a gun....just my luck.

Today we are having about -7 celcius weather with some snow and when I turned on the car this afternoon after it has been sitting for 12+ hours, it did the grind like usual.

I did grease up 95% of the components except for one part.

Where the 3 gears sit with that larger gear ring, under that part is a gear spline. I didn't grease that up but I did spray some bike lube on it. Should that also be greased up?


Edit: I came across this thread:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...Motor-Grind-Fix-and-Starter-Motor-Replacement

and the guy does lube up that larger gear shaft.

I just completed this and I made sure to pour some gear oil (VW 070) onto the bendix gear and around there. I worked it in for a bit and hopefully now it will be silent.

 

[quartersaw]

is there anyway to get to the bottom bolt without getting under the car?

I remove the battery, and the tray below it. I can access the starter, and the bolts from above the car easily.

 

[JLMurphy]

Just did my wife's '01 Golf this afternoon as it was shrieking like a banshee on startup. I ended up having to raise the car up to loosen the lower starter bolt. Took about 2 hours. Starter looks pretty good, gears were completely dry, but the brushes and commutator looked great (car has 130K on the clock). Lubed everything up including the rear bushing and put it back together. Everything went really well, got everything back together, started the car, reprogrammed the radio and then looked on the workbench and saw the little plastic and metal piece that goes between the planetary gears and the armature inside the starter. Oops.

Good news was that since I had just had everything apart I could do it all from the top. Took about 30 minutes start to finish the second time.

Definitely easier to remove the battery box. Once that's out of the way all the bolts are easy to get to. On mine, there's a little cover over the nut for the battery feed, I just left it attached to the starter and pulled it out since I figured it would break if I tried to pry it off. The solenoid connector was a pain, I found it easier to just leave it attached until I had the starter out and in hand. Once I could get my fingers on both sides of the connector it came off pretty easily.

This is why I love this place, you could pretty much build a car from a pile of parts using just the DIYs.

Jim

 

[Jettadoor]

Thank you Wingnut, very clear! Had to take mine off because of a broken wire to the innards. It sent out a smoke screen a few weeks ago trying to start after sitting at -25C for a few days, and then worked OK until it died last week. Cold starting RPM has been slow the last couple of years so after 14 years and 250+K miles I didn't think it worthwhile doing surgery on a tired starter so ordered one from Roseland Tech.

Had a hard time with to top bolt due to corroded threads in the starter-side flange. On an older vehicle it might be a good idea to shoot some lubricant into the back of the flange before undoing the electrics and stuff so it has time to work.

To make things worse I had already taken the bottom bolt out so I lost some time trying to start the threads while trying to support the weight of the motor. Then I put the bottom bolt back in and started making progress.

Unless they thought of putting a shorter bolt at the top I wonder why they would thread that hole?

 

[SUPEROCHIBA]

Going by the parts store today, is their a specific grease I should be looking for or just any Ultra High Temp Lithium?

 

[mrrhtuner]

Going by the parts store today, is their a specific grease I should be looking for or just any Ultra High Temp Lithium?

Search this thread. It's been covered many times.

 

[Golf2K]

I got took my starter off, and greased it, I took my battery out to do it.

I cleaned the grounds on the starter and any connections. I painted my starter.

I put it all back together not my lights dim in a 'blinking' fashion when I put on my signals, or put the fan motor on high.

I started the car five times after I put the starter in a row, to get it spinning and moving the grease about. No more grinding.

I wonder why now so much dimming. I used to only do this when my power windows where all the way up and you press 'Up' on the switch.

 

[jayb79]

Sounds like a bad ground somewhere. Did you remove the battery tray? The ground point under the battery is a known problem area.

 

[Golf2K]

Sounds like a bad ground somewhere. Did you remove the battery tray? The ground point under the battery is a known problem area.

I dont think it is that because before I was looking at my Fan Control Module, I cleaned that ground, that was months ago, I think the Voltage Regulator on the Alternator is bad, I dont think it is charging my battery well enough, I put a charge on the battery and the problem seemed to decrease.

 

[mrrhtuner]

Well I helped out a friend of mine last night and decided to re-grease his starter. Prior to doing the work, I had him buy the new bushing and 'brush box' so that I could install it all for him.

I ran into two concerns/problems.

1) The larger female connector that sits ontop of the starter has a thin black wire broken off it.

The car starts just fine, no CEL. Any ideas what that wire could be from?


2) I wasn't able to remove the two smaller phillips screws that hold the cap on at the top of the starter in order to remove the bushing and get to the brush box.

One screw broke loose, the other one wouldn't budge so it started to strip. Any ideas on how to remove that second little screw?


I was able to re-grease the starter and pour some G70 transmission oil on the bendix shaft and work it a bit. Started last night much better and without noise.

 

[lapse]

This is an awesome thread, thanks!

I did the job this morning in about an hour. Much of the time was spent going in and out of the house to get more of the right tools.

I did all of the job from the top side. 1/2" breaker bar on an extension with 18mm socket was needed to crack the bottom bolt. I didn't need a deep socket on 1/2" drive, but needed a deep socket when I switched down to 3/8".

I could have used a mirror to aim myself properly, but the bottom bolt is just barely visible if one crouches down and peers just over engine bay underneath the starter.

The planetary gears were dry and chunks of old gummy grease were around the edges. I cleaned everything with parts cleaner and re-greased with wheel bearing grease, buttoned it all up, and the car fired up immediately.

 

[lapse]

2) I wasn't able to remove the two smaller phillips screws that hold the cap on at the top of the starter in order to remove the bushing and get to the brush box.
One screw broke loose, the other one wouldn't budge so it started to strip. Any ideas on how to remove that second little screw?.

Did you manage to fix this? I rounded out one of the Torx screws on the solenoid. Was wondering if there's an easy way to take it out before I put my drill to it.....

 

[Wankel7]

I have found a little information....

Changing out the brush box....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJM2veUNBc0

If you don't change the brush box cleaning up the armature as he described could be a winner.

I emailed this company and they said this was the brush box....

There is a nice piece of plastic keeping the brushes from popping out of place. I am thinking you could slide the brush box out but put a socket in there as you slip it off.

I matched up the Bosch part number on the starter to the list for this brush box so it looks like right one.
http://www.maniacelectricmotors.com/55202015.html

 

[Dodoma]

starter removal

While Wingnut has given steps for removing starter in Jetta automatic, it is however a laborious job. First, the shroud over the starter is pain to remove as its 13 mm holding nut is not visible because there is not much gap between it and the transmission covering metal plate held in place by four 17mm head bolts. Moreover, if you are not careful, the nut may fall in the gap between the metal plate and transmission body. You may need to remove the metal plate to recover the 13mm nut should it fall down. Moreover, removing the metal plate helps, including loosening the starter's two long bolts. Removing the driver side engine cover sideskirt, held by two speed clips (removed by inserting flat screw driver in one of the slits and turning it counter clockwise) and 2 belly pan screws, helps a lot. You do not have to raise the car a lot if you are slim. I used floor jack to lift the driver side, but the tire remained on the floor. This gave enough room to remove the bottom starter bolt. I got a remanufactured starter from PepBoys as my starters pinion gear (the one whose teeth mashes with flex plate teeth gaps) had some teeth damage (chipped). However, there was no damage on the flex plate teeth.

 

[UhOh]

OK, pretty sure the starter on my wife's car is in need of attention (battery is good; cranks around 180-200 rpm, and only labors to start when the engine isn't warmed up). Seems that there could be a plethora of possible issues with a starter (bad brushes; bad bushing; bad rotor etc), so, in an attempt to preempt a visit from Mr. Murphy while trying to repair a starter, I was wondering why not just go for a remanufactured one from, say, NAPA? (not plugging NAPA, it's just that I have one close to me)

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/C...rter-Remfd-Standard/_/R-RSE2446765_0367701460

About $100. Three year warranty.

 

[edgewatertom]

Does anyone know the part number for the bolt being removed from the starter in this picture and/or a link to where I can purchase?

 

[RacerTodd]

Does anyone know the part number for the bolt being removed from the starter in this picture and/or a link to where I can purchase?

VW part # 5x3 911 491 or 02A 911 491. I think the first part number is for auto trans starters and the other one is for manual trans starters. A dealer might be able to clarify which is which.