How to re & re the starter

[CoolAirVw]

I just did this to a car 2 weeks ago. Car was parked for months and the original "bus" was corroded and cracked. I came up with the same fix independently, but I wanted to post up, so that others would know its a reasonably good fix, and if their starter isn't working this might get them by for awhile.

Also a bit of heat shrink covering might keep it from grounding out in a accident.

 

[jmanner]

Cannot thank the folks on this thread enough! My starter was making a strange noise disengaging in the winter. This thread gave me to courage not only to R&R the starter, but to disassemble. Actually, a fairly simple procedure. I am 99% sure all it needed was a good cleaning and lube. Come winter, will know for sure. Was considering a replacement unit, but decided to give mine a going over. Additionally, not all that hot on rebuilt anything. In my view all that is "rebuilt" is a minimum expenditure/effort to wishfully last the warranty period. I think they still come out ahead even if customers get a dud or two. Amazing, some of the external rust and crud seen on some of the photos. I guess there IS a benefit to living in the arid desert southwestern USA.

 

[Ibis]

My starter must have been glued together because I can't get it to budge even after using a rubber malet to try to force it out, in the end I had to put everything back together again.

 

[jmanner]

My starter must have been glued together because I can't get it to budge even after using a rubber malet to try to force it out, in the end I had to put everything back together again.

It would not come out of the vehicle? Or, do you mean the starter would not come apart? Mine slipped out with no resistance. However, as previously mentioned, I live in a semi-desert area, and corrosion is virtually unheard of. The underbody engine shield also helps in this regard.

A note, when disassembling, was unimpressed with the construction. Would have expected more ball or needle bearings in the planetary gearset, not steel bushing bearings whereas the lubricant is destined to dissipate early in the life cycle. Possibly all late-model gear reduction starters are similiar on other makes of vehicles?

 

[Snowman]

From the top???

I have a metal skid plate on my car that I think will be difficult to remove "nicely". Is there any way I can remove the starter from the top side?

Thanks!

 

[jmanner]

I have a metal skid plate on my car that I think will be difficult to remove "nicely". Is there any way I can remove the starter from the top side?

Thanks!

I think there was one post which the person mentioned they removed the starter completely from the top. I suppose it is possible, but probably difficult and awkward removing the bottom bolt.

 

[chaloux]

I did this before (to get rid of the howl) and had to do it again today because my car was cranking very, very slowly.

The first time I cleaned it, I noticed the brushes were quite worn, and I knew I'd either have to replace them or get a new starter if that wasn't an option.

Today, after making sure the battery and grounds weren't the problem, I removed the starter again. Took it apart, and found that one of the brushes was so worn the wire was making contact. I went to Canadian Tire, they wanted $229 for a new starter and I'd have it the next day - which wasn't helpful at all. Roseland has refurb Boschs for about the same price.

Luckily for me, Brunton Farms is local. I'm sure that many of you have starter/alternator rebuilders around you. I brought my brush assembly in, he asked what series it was (09, 10, 11, etc.) and I said I didn't know. So he goes through some boxes, finds an identical one, and I am out the door $55 later.

Cleaned the starter up again, put the new brush assembly in, and reassembled the car. The rest of the starter was in excellent condition, otherwise I would have ordered an entire new one. The car literally starts before I can turn the key all the way now. I don't think it's ever started this good.

This is the brush assembly, and the piece I replaced with new. The pieces attached to the copper wires are the brushes (not my image, these brushes are in very good shape):

 

[bitterberry]

Does anyone have the part number for the starter motor? I have a 99.5 A4 Jetta which is confusing to the Auto Parts store guy helping me so I just want to make sure I get the right one.

 

[ajrn]

I pulled the starter from my '97 Passat TDI today..

The howl after cold starts was becoming predictable-- and it seemed to crank slowly as well.. (And the battery tests fine/connections are clean)

It seems the "tight" part wasn't in the gears-- but in the stator/magnet half in the back..

Are these meant to be "dry" or is there some sort of lubricant for them?? You can hear audible "scraping" when you try to turn the shaft..

I'd disassemble the back half-- but I think it's safe to say any parts I'd need in there I'm not going to get on a Sunday evening anyway.. I think getting it apart just requires removing those two screws and a "retaining clip" on the end of the shaft, right??

Are "internal" starter parts available?? Or am I going to have to bite the bullet and buy a new starter?

 

[jmanner]

All I did was a complete disassembly, lube all areas, and reassemble. The big guessing game was what lubricant where. "Howling" cured. Wish I could have ordered a set of brushes, but the online supplier seems to be able to get any brush set except mine! ('01 Jetta TDI MT)

 

[jmanner]

Postscript - Was very disappointed with the starter design, destined to fail. All steel bushing bearings as I recall, and bound to go "dry." Whatever happened to needle and ball bearing, lubed for the long term?

 

[ajrn]

So you would lubricate the stator/rotor assembly as well??

With WHAT, may I ask-- I did pull it apart, it's all bone dry back there..

 

[jmanner]

So you would lubricate the stator/rotor assembly as well??

With WHAT, may I ask-- I did pull it apart, it's all bone dry back there..

I don't quite understand what you are asking. The stator and rotor should not have any physical contact. Possibly the rear bearing is worn to the degree whereas they are rubbing? If so, you may be looking at a replacement starter.

 

[ajrn]

...That's pretty much what I assumed, just wanted to verify-- before I dropped $200...

I know it's sacrilege-- but I buy "lifetime" starters at Autozone. 1) I've only had one fail-- in my old ford F150 4x4.. 2) They're walking distance from my house AND my girlfriends house.. THAT has been important once or twice, over the years..

...I buy everything else, pretty much from Autohaus Az-- but I can't wait 3-4 days for one to ship, and since starters are HEAVY, I don't want to pay for "expedited" shipping. Ironically-- I'd considered ordering a starter with my last Autohaus order.. But decided I'd clean what was there first.

For the record, I tried putting it back together this morning-- the bendix throws the gear out, but it doesn't spin now. I guess it's time to go bite the bullet.

Thanks for all, as usual-- gents.

AJRN

 

[ajrn]

BTW--

Has anyone else taken a ground wire from the starter bolt to the main engine ground??

I had a spare 4g "switch to starter" cable. (18" or thereabouts)

I had a leftover 8mm nut (from the native starter) and put it on the end of the lower starter bolt-- then carried the wire up to the main ground bolt..

It's common to do something like this on the old MB diesels-- and there, it does make an audible difference in the cranking "effort.." (I don't think anyone used a mechanical tach, to determine how much improvement...)

It's very easy to do, costs about nothing, and if you used the top bolt, would leave a quick place to bolt accessory grounds..

Any thoughts?

 

[1234567890]

Just did my starter today. Works great! If you take out the battery box you might as well clean out the snow screen while you are there. Mine had some junk built up in it.

 

[jmanner]

Just did my starter today. Works great! If you take out the battery box you might as well clean out the snow screen while you are there. Mine had some junk built up in it.

10-4 on the snow screen! Had a good friend who was not aware of it's existence. After his fiasco, he told me how he was losing power, tried several expensive fixes, and the solution was the simple and free 15-minute task of cleaning the screen. Are these still present on current production VW TDI's?

 

[boertje]

This write up was great. On the Beetle, the best way is to remove the battery and the battery box. After that, its super easy. The bushes on my starter had about 60% left (2001 bug with 77K miles) so with a good cleaning and lube, the starter sounds like new again.

 

[Griz419]

Thanks for the write up. It helped me a lot.

 

[Kristopher]

The wife's 99.5 had cranked over slower than what was believed to be normal since we bought it ~3yrs ago. Two years ago I replaced the battery as it tested marginal. This helped in the cold weather starting but if it got 10* below freezing the car had issues cranking. Most recently the wife had to use a booster pack to get enough juice to bring rpms up enough to fire.

I removed the starter last night just to have a look. The battery terminals were decent with only a slight amount of corrosion visible. With the battery box out I also cleaned up the two grounds which likely go to the lighting.

Once the starter was out I took it apart and found the action was a little gummy. With little tools on hand, I sprayed it down with WD and cleaned out the old grease with qtips. I then used a good quality chain lube and worked it in until it was much easier to turn the gear by hand.

The car now cranks over sooooo much better. At first I was a bit skeptical since we had the car in a heated garage and everything was warmer, but this morning the wife called from work and said her car sounds new.

I have to make a post in the 'Hot Start' thread now. The 99.5 software was really irritating me but the upgrade may no longer be a requirement as much as I thought. Clean terminals and a loose starter have done the trick so far.

 

[Andy67]

Thanks all for this thread. A wrench, I am not, but I went to school at ninedee_golf_tdi Tom's last month for a TB job and got more comfortable with the idea of working on my car.

Finally got the sack up to do the starter this past weekend to remedy the increasingly lengthy grind after starting. About 2.5 hours (45 jack car, remove starter, 45 clean/lube starter, 30 button up) for this complete noob, going very methodically. The actual remove/replace was pretty predictable using the posts in this thread. The dis/reassembly of the starter was more nerve-wracking as I also wasn't expecting the friction when moving the rotor/stator (as ajrn experienced) and my cognitive function abandoned me for a bit getting it all back together, even though it's keyed to go one way, sigh.

Anyway, its back together and no more grind! Replaced the fuel filter while I had the lid up too. Satisfying, to say the least. Still having to overcome wife's objections to "just take it to the dealer!". Umm, what would you rather buy with that $500 honey?

Again, thanks all for the inspiration

to do list:
frozen alternator clutch and abused serp tensioner
intake cleaning (verified clogged)
suspension refresh
front valence
few chips in hood
headlight lenses
tack couple of sags in passenger door fabric
replace bubbled tinting

 

[tommygunn82189]

this thread is pure sex

 

[added]

2000 beetle starle replace

thanks for the article, what a terribly designed starter placement and removal process.

that top bolt had a thread into the motor mount and at the bell housing again. I sometimes think that the VW engineers had a gag going; who could design the worst system on the car.

Once again, thanks, the bentlley manual wasn't very informative

Dave

 

[ymz]

If you think the starter is in a bad place, just wait until you have to replace the alternator... (especially in a New Beetle...)

Yuri

 

[VATechTDI]

On a jetta, does a dieslgeek bypass filter need to be removed in order to get the starter out? Thanks.

 

[ymz]

SR0408X = 10 teeth
SR0407X = 9 teeth

408x is for a manual transmission; 407x is for an automatic transmission...

Yuri

 

[ymz]

Glad to help - however, since my reference material may not always be 100% dependable, please count the teeth on the old starter... just to be sure...

Cheers,

Yuri

 

[VATechTDI]

A little more detail on that wire shroud

I replaced my starter yesterday. I had a terrible time figuring out how to get that plastic cable shroud bracket/cover out of the way, and couldn't quite make sense of the directions or photos in the how-to above. I decided to take the battery tray out, which only took 5 minutes but I think made the whole procedure much much easier, since I have fat hands with short fingers, and there was no other way I was getting the nut underneath that shroud off. I snapped a few photos below that I think make it easier to tell what you're looking at for someone digging into this for the first time.
1. This is what it looks like underneath that black shroud of high-impact plastic annoyance. Basically an L-shaped piece of copper, engineered with german precision to perfectly hide the nut underneath it which fastens it to the starter.

2. That L-shaped piece of copper slides into a groove on the underside of the plastic shroud as shown here. Note the notch on the copper and the tab that fits into it.

3. If you pry upward, hard, on the top part of the cover, you can poke at that tab which allows you to slide the cover off to the right (towards the battery box). If you haven't removed the battery box, I don't know if there's room to remove it this way.

4. Booyah. Your chances of reaching the 13-mm nut on the underside of that obnoxious piece of copper are now 37% greater.

Hope this is of help to somebody!

 

[cooter09]

No need to take any of that off. Simply use an extension and a 13 mm. Come from underneath the car and run it over the top of the starter, it will go underneath that whole bracket. Remove 13mm nut and you can remove that whole assembly without worry.

+1 for Wingnut on a great write up. Just completed starter R&R in no time flat.

Thanks!

 

[edgardotcom]

I did mine a couple weeks ago.. a disassemble everything cleaned and put grease on the gears problem got fixed but came back after a few days it use to stick when turn on the car.. I had to replace the piece of s**t it had (chinese) with a remanufactured bosch from oreillys.. problem solved...