How to do your buyback calculations (& post them here!)

TDIGuyInSD

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Aug 14, 2016
Location
San Diego
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen SEL TDI 6MT
TDI loan forgiveness amount

I have a 2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI SEL with 22K miles. I bought the car brand new in September 2015, and a couple weeks later the scandal broke. Do these numbers look right to you? (Yes my loan amount is high because I rolled over some negative equity... 6K worth :eek:) This is after i receive an email from VW regarding loan forgiveness. Apparently VW will forgive up to 130% of trade in value.

Vehicle Buyback

ESTIMATED TOTAL
$36,763.34

Vehicle Return Amount
$22,337.00

Additional Restitution
$7,454.13

Total Buyback Amount Before Loan Payoff
$29,791.13

 Total Outstanding Loan Amount
$36,763.34

Loan Amount that VW Will Pay in addition to Buyback Amount
$6,972.21

 Amount VW Will Pay Your Lender
-$36,763.34

Amount VW Will Pay to You
$0.00

 Projected Mileage at Return
20,001 -25,000

 Tentative Return Date
11/01/2016
 
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Rico567

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Location
Central IL
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL Premium (Turned in 7/7/18)
<snip> This is after i receive an email from VW regarding loan forgiveness. Apparently VW will forgive up to 130% of trade in value.
<snip>
Yeah, accurate as far as I can tell, although it's always necessary to remind ourselves that none of this is set in stone until October. When Judge Breyer's signature is dry on the final document, then it's all "go."
Also, adopting the term "forgiveness" in the amount of the loan VW will pay for is unfortunate....it's not really loan forgiveness, and you don't want it to be, because some of our more tax-knowledgeable contributors state that an amount of a loan that's forgiven is taxable income.....which, for all I know, that part of the buyback may end up being anyhow.
Don't get me wrong— losing all that negative equity is a good deal for you.
 
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brownwagon

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2014
Location
Florida
TDI
past: 2004 Jetta TDI, 2014 Jetta Wagon TDI... Hopefully will own one again soon.
crazy. i bought my 2014 jetta wagen in 2014 for 29-30 k. now i can get 27-28 k back for it ? good deal ! i had another kid in that time and need a bigger car now anyway !
 

ABS

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2003
Location
South Central Minnesota
TDI
2014 Passat SE TDI, 6MT
Well,

I took a look at the claims info site. Assuming the settlement is ultimately approved by the court, I think I will be saying goodbye to the Passat. Currently I have 121,115 miles on the car purchased 10/28/13. At the time of trade in I would estimate that to be about 132,200 give or take.

AS much as I love the fuel economy, I've driven it for three years, replaced three Heater Cores, had the same number of AdBlue system failures, one requiring the entire tank and heating element be replaced. THe turbo has been solid to this point. Those issues aside I love the car, but its hard to argue with the buyback.

2014 Passat TDI SE, 6-spd M/T

Total Estimate: $18,166.73

Vehicle Return Amount $12,650

Additional Restitution $5,516.73

Projected Mileage at Return 130,000-135,000

So, I will say goodbye. Financially, its a no-brainier (again assuming the settlement is approved). Now its just to determine which vehicle replaces it, as I commute 90 miles one way, and would like three pedals combined with decent fuel economy. . .

Cheers,

Aaron
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
2015 VW Golf S DSG Silver
Well,

I took a look at the claims info site. Assuming the settlement is ultimately approved by the court, I think I will be saying goodbye to the Passat. Currently I have 121,115 miles on the car purchased 10/28/13. At the time of trade in I would estimate that to be about 132,200 give or take.

AS much as I love the fuel economy, I've driven it for three years, replaced three Heater Cores, had the same number of AdBlue system failures, one requiring the entire tank and heating element be replaced. THe turbo has been solid to this point. Those issues aside I love the car, but its hard to argue with the buyback.




Financially, its a no-brainier

Cheers,

Aaron
No brainier indeed. :mad:

You're talking big bucks repairs -- even if it WAS under warranty:mad:
 

ABS

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2003
Location
South Central Minnesota
TDI
2014 Passat SE TDI, 6MT
No brainier indeed. :mad:

You're talking big bucks repairs -- even if it WAS under warranty:mad:
Admittedly, I have a wonderful dealer that has stood behind the car. All the work was done with no out-of pocket to me (the first tank issue under warranty) all others after 36K. . . However, given each has failed each winter, I am not willing to take a "wait and see" approach. Plus, I am sure their generosity will wane at some point.
 

j-bone

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2014
Location
CT
TDI
No more TDlIes
And don't forget to adjust for mileage. You might like that number even less.
I'm in the bracket that adds $$ to the total ...
The buy back total and my loan pay off aren't too far apart but I'll be putting some in my pocket so can't complain.
I was expecting $5100 on top of everything till I looked again that's my fault .
 

Pappa Grande

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2006
Location
NJ
TDI
2015 GSW S 6sp [was 2013 Passat TDI 6sp & was 2002 Golf]
I am dumb so bare with me or ignore...
I simply don't understand how the built in 12,500/per year built in mileage works.

Very simply, I have 56,000 on my manual 2013 Passat. I will take the buy back, but probably won't return the car until next summer. I don't understand how the built in mileage allotment works, at all - do I need to understand?

1. I understand that I will be deducted mileage for 5000 increments if I keep driving. Ok - I get this. No problem.

2. I don't understand the built in 1042 per month or whatever. How does that play into my valuation???? Do I need to understand it for my plan below.


I anticipate putting up to another 15,000 miles on the car over the next year. How, if at all does the monthly "allotment" play in to this?

Lol, sorry for my dumbness.
 

DanB36

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2003
Location
Savannah, GA
TDI
2014 Q5 Prestige TDI, Monsoon Gray
I simply don't understand how the built in 12,500/per year built in mileage works.
  • Decide (or estimate) when you're going to sell back your car.
  • Count how many months that date is from September, 2015.
  • Multiply that number of months by 1042. This gives you the mileage adjustment.
  • Estimate what your mileage will be when you sell the car back.
  • Subtract the mileage adjustment from the mileage your car will have when you sell it back.
  • The result will be the mileage value used to adjust the value of your car. Consult the mileage table for the adjustment.
 

Pappa Grande

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2006
Location
NJ
TDI
2015 GSW S 6sp [was 2013 Passat TDI 6sp & was 2002 Golf]
[*]Decide (or estimate) when you're going to sell back your car. May 2017
[*]Count how many months that date is from September, 2015. SEVENTEEN MONTHS
[*]Multiply that number of months by 1042. This gives you the mileage adjustment. 17,714
[*]Estimate what your mileage will be when you sell the car back. 70,000
[*]Subtract the mileage adjustment from the mileage your car will have when you sell it back. 52,286
[*]The result will be the mileage value used to adjust the value of your car. Consult the mileage table for the adjustment.
[/LIST][/QUOTE] ‐$1,170

Ok. For a non mathematical person, this is torture. Sorry again.
 
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Airpizz6

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Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Location
Bel Air, MD
TDI
Now TDI-free, but there now is a 15 MB E250 BT in the driveway
I anticipate putting up to another 15,000 miles on the car over the next year. How, if at all does the monthly "allotment" play in to this?
.
To make it even simpler, it is now 11months since the scandal broke. 11 times 1042 is 11462. This means you have 44538 effective miles today. Let's say you plan for an Aug 17 buyback. If you drive 15000 miles in the next 12 months, you will add 2496 effective miles to your total. At turn in you will have 47034 effective miles And will fall into the 45001-50000 mile bracket. Hope this helps.
 

Armby

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2012
Location
Ottawa, Canada
TDI
2013 Golf
[*]Decide (or estimate) when you're going to sell back your car. May 2017
[*]Count how many months that date is from September, 2015. SEVENTEEN MONTHS
[*]Multiply that number of months by 1042. This gives you the mileage adjustment. 17,714
[*]Estimate what your mileage will be when you sell the car back. 70,000
[*]Subtract the mileage adjustment from the mileage your car will have when you sell it back. 52,286
[*]The result will be the mileage value used to adjust the value of your car. Consult the mileage table for the adjustment.
[/LIST]
May 2017 is 20 months after Sept 2015.
 

Big Red

Veteran Member
Joined
May 22, 2000
Location
Newark, DE, USA
$16,456.73 - Gap between grid in Buyback Chapter 3 payment table?

Anyone know the reason for such a large difference between the Chapter 3 payment table and actual vehicle calculations?
2012 Passat SE MT 95,505 miles.

Without adjustments, the tables say I should expect $19-007-$21,467 total buyback.

Actual calculations
Vehicle = $11,225
Addl Rest = $5,231.73
Total $16,456.73

I have -150 for MT vs auto.

How does this get down this low? even with mileage adjustment of $2,550 it seems I'm missing a couple grand between the table and actual calc????
 

crak

Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Location
Boynton Beach Fl
TDI
2015 Audi A3 TDI
Quick question. Does the "Total Buyback Amount Before Loan Payoff" stays the same as long as you keep your mileage under the specified values? If so, since I'm still making payments on it, eventually I will get that money back when they buy it back because the payoff is less?
 

DanB36

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2003
Location
Savannah, GA
TDI
2014 Q5 Prestige TDI, Monsoon Gray
Does the "Total Buyback Amount Before Loan Payoff" stays the same as long as you keep your mileage under the specified values?
Yes.

If so, since I'm still making payments on it, eventually I will get that money back when they buy it back because the payoff is less?
You'll get your money back less the interest.
 

DanB36

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2003
Location
Savannah, GA
TDI
2014 Q5 Prestige TDI, Monsoon Gray
Then go ahead and drive. It'll depreciate your VW much more slowly than any other car.
 

Airpizz6

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Location
Bel Air, MD
TDI
Now TDI-free, but there now is a 15 MB E250 BT in the driveway
Is there a chart where it shows the mileage depreciation after the 1042?
Go to the first post on this thread. There you will a link to the mileage chart. Every 5000 miles driven in a year above the 1042/month will move you into the next bracket. In your case, you will move four brackets and cost you around $1.3K.
 
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edge130

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Location
northern NJ
TDI
Wife's 2009 Jetta TDI sedan (2009 - 2017)
Calculation method

By definition in the court papers, the vehicle value is the clean trade value, then adjusted for mileage and options. This then becomes your vehicle value.
Then it is time to apply the restitution formula or the restitution minimum.
Restitution formula is 20% of vehicle value plus $2,986.73.

The vw charts and online wizards don't compute it in this manner.
They seem to apply the restitution to the raw clean trade in value, then add/deduct for mileage and options.

This method of calculation would benefit low mileage vehicles, but higher mileage vehicles would not.

My manually calculated numbers are higher than the vw website and vw tables show.

My calculations are $15,660 vs vw calculations of $15,137
Nada clean trade in value for 2009 Jetta sedan, with A/T, is $7,950

PS
As of 08/30/2016 I found my mistakes .
I was able to get the same buyback results using the September 2015 NADA Guide and the VW Portal , exactly the same.

However, in using the court document attachments, thry are off by a very small msrgin.
My mistake was not using the NADA mileage adjustment carts when using the clean trade in value. I was using the nada book clean trade in value numbers and incorrectly using the mileage tables from the court attachments. The Court mileage tables include the 20% restitution factor.
 
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Airpizz6

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Location
Bel Air, MD
TDI
Now TDI-free, but there now is a 15 MB E250 BT in the driveway
My manually calculated numbers are higher than the vw website and vw tables show.

My calculations are $15,660 vs vw calculations of $15,137
Nada clean trade in value for 2009 Jetta sedan, with A/T, is $7,950
$15137 is the right number if your adjusted mileage is 45000-50000. The next bracket would put you at $15557. Don't see how you came up $15660. But regardless, looks like you are coming out of this pretty good.
 

edge130

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Location
northern NJ
TDI
Wife's 2009 Jetta TDI sedan (2009 - 2017)
Sept 2016 -Sept 2015 = 12 months
12 x 1042 = 12504
mileage 59,500 - 12,504 = 46,973(mileage adj back to Sept 2015)
Attach 2B Beetle & Jetta Mileage table for model year 2009
45,001-50,000 = $2,610
7950 NADA clean trade in
+2610 mileage adj
_________________
$10,560 vehicle value
+2,112 (Restitution 20%)
+2,986 (Restitution)
__________________________
$5098.73 (Restitution amt, but $5,100 minimum)
$10,560
$5,100
________
$15,660 buyback amount

VW's buyback numbers are lower because they fail to apply the 20% restitution to any positive mileage adjustment and/or options amount that must be added to the clean trade in value amount, as defined in the definitions section of the court documents.

Court document Case 3:15-md-02672-CRB Document 1698 Page 7 of 23:
Vehicle Value refers to the Eligible Vehicle's Base Value, adjusted for Original Manufacturer ("OEM") installed options and mileage.
Restitution is calculated by adding (1) 20% of the Vehicle Value plus (2) the greater of $2,986.73 or the amount necessary to ensure that owner restitution is not less than $5100
 
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Airpizz6

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Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Location
Bel Air, MD
TDI
Now TDI-free, but there now is a 15 MB E250 BT in the driveway
Yep, I think you are right but here is where $15137 came from:

Restitution is $7950 x 0.2 + $2987 = $4577. Don't add mileage adjustment.

$7950 + $4577 + $2610 = $15137

But, yes, the restitution amount can't be lower than $5100.

And you should be getting $15660.

Am assuming their model, at least in your case, is not addressing the $5100 minimum for restitution. I have to believe others are affected. That would be anyone with a car value less than $10565. Worth a warning to the community?
 
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bizzle

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May 21, 2013
Location
Southern California
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2015 GSW SEL (totaled), 2013 Touareg Executive
Yep, I think you are right but here is where $15137 came from:

Restitution is $7950 x 0.2 + $2987 = $4577. Don't add mileage adjustment.

$7950 + $4577 + $2610 = $15137

But, yes, the restitution amount can't be lower than $5100.

And you should be getting $15660.

Am assuming their model, at least in your case, is not addressing the $5100 minimum for restitution. I have to believe others are affected. That would be anyone with a car value less than $10565. Worth a warning to the community?
That's how I thought it worked, but it doesn't seem to.

It seems like they mean $5100 is the minimum check you'll receive, which means some people get credit for far more than their restitution and mileage and base price allotments to meet that minimum.

Mine was a few thousand less than what I would be getting if just the restitution portion was +$5100.
 

Debra Morgan

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Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Location
Columbus Ohio
TDI
Memories of a fantastic 2015 Jetta
That's how I thought it worked, but it doesn't seem to.

It seems like they mean $5100 is the minimum check you'll receive, which means some people get credit for far more than their restitution and mileage and base price allotments to meet that minimum.

Mine was a few thousand less than what I would be getting if just the restitution portion was +$5100.
Actually we will be turning in a 2015 and I think the payout is very fair.
 

bizzle

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2013
Location
Southern California
TDI
2015 GSW SEL (totaled), 2013 Touareg Executive
Why did you quote me?

Your 2015 isn't relevant to the discussion regarding minimum restitution. This only applies to older and high mileage cars and I didn't even comment on fairness.

Did you mean to quote someone else?
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
Is there a chart where it shows the mileage depreciation after the 1042?
Quote:
Originally Posted by S2000_guy
The mileage adjustments are spelled out here:

https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/en/
Scroll down to "Court Documents, Forms & Notices"
Select "FTC Consent Order"
The mileage adjustment charts are Attachments 2A, 2B, and 2C

The adjustments change by car model (Golf, Jetta, JSW, etc.), year, and total mileage, rendering "an average" pretty useless.
 

kjclow

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Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
That's how I thought it worked, but it doesn't seem to.

It seems like they mean $5100 is the minimum check you'll receive, which means some people get credit for far more than their restitution and mileage and base price allotments to meet that minimum.

Mine was a few thousand less than what I would be getting if just the restitution portion was +$5100.
With my JSW, I get an extra $148 to get me up to that $5100 threshold. BFD
 

misteroboto

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Mar 17, 2008
Location
Springfield, VA USA
TDI
11 JSW 13 Beetle TDI
2013 Beetle sunroof Navigation Fender stereo 48K miles approx $23500 usd. 2011 Jetta Sportwagen sunroof 40K miles about $1000 less.

We are looking at probably getting a couple of gas powered something or anothers. I'm going to miss the TDI's, just I have a feeling the repair is going to turn into a cluster F and we kinda depend on having transportation. Dealing with not having a vehicle for any length of time is not an option.
 
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