How to: 02M/02Q LSD Install

sardo_67

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For the case half's there is no gasket, at the shop they use some type of sealer that is made for metal on metal surfaces, works real good from what I hear. I'll have to get the name of it.
Any place that sells car parts should be able to get you the 2 axle flange seals I would think and also the input shaft one as well.
Www.vwtransaxles.com is where I got all the parts for my O2J rebuild.
Do you have all the tooling needed for the shift fork mod? If not shoot me an email.
 

Redneck Truck

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Before I put this back together I have to make 100% sure the ring gear is on the diff perfectly, don't I?

I found a site that's great for the 02j, but it has no 02m parts. Need input shaft seal, axle seals, and shift tower seals. Also may need shims.

Shift forks are done, my machinist buddy let me use his drill press and taps and another buddy tig welded them up for me. Did you braise the brass forks to the bolts?
 

sardo_67

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My brother did some type of TIG brazing on the shift forks. Not sure exactly but I showed him this thread and he went to town on Them.
 

sardo_67

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One thing I noticed on my 6 speed is the shifter is stiff sometimes. I reused the stock 5 speed shift box as pulling off the exhaust and heat shield was too much at the time.
Sometimes after shifting up to 3/4 or all the way to 6 I pull it out of gear and the shifter stays all the way to the right in neutral. I then will push it back towards reverse and the. It frees up like normal, no grinding, noise, just stiff like it just needs to reset or something. I can't figure out what is doing it, nothing is binding on the linkage and it does t seem internal to the trans so....... Any ideas?
 

ryanp

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the small plastic bushing on the relay lever of the shifter tower can get damaged when removed and is stiff when you put it back in, that or there is something catching internally after the mods!!
 

Redneck Truck

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Did you take enough off the bolt heads? Did the shift bushings/bearings get damaged upon reassembly? Were the ball detents all moving freely upon installation? Unless you had an issue with the shifter box and cables prior to installation, I reckon something is wrong with the shift tower or the bearings in which it rides.
 

Redneck Truck

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to Whitbread, I tried the tig welding method to remove the differential bearing races and it worked like magic. Many thanks for this wonderful thread. However, removing the races created a new concern. Upon removal of the races, I had a shim behind each race. This leads me to believe that preload is not the only concern, but offset as well. Provided the preload is unacceptable with the current shims, should I split the difference between current total shim thickness and new total shim thickness proportionally between the two (i.e. .05 and .10 spacers now and I need .06 more preload, install .06 and .12, or is it more complicated than that?
 

Whitbread

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One thing I noticed on my 6 speed is the shifter is stiff sometimes. I reused the stock 5 speed shift box as pulling off the exhaust and heat shield was too much at the time.
Sometimes after shifting up to 3/4 or all the way to 6 I pull it out of gear and the shifter stays all the way to the right in neutral. I then will push it back towards reverse and the. It frees up like normal, no grinding, noise, just stiff like it just needs to reset or something. I can't figure out what is doing it, nothing is binding on the linkage and it does t seem internal to the trans so....... Any ideas?
Ditto with Ryan. Pull the relay lever off the shift tower, pull the 2 top hat bushings out, run a cartridge roll on a die grinder lightly though the hole in the top of the tower, clean bushings and relay lever shaft, reassemble and enjoy smooth side-side travel.


to Whitbread, I tried the tig welding method to remove the differential bearing races and it worked like magic. Many thanks for this wonderful thread. However, removing the races created a new concern. Upon removal of the races, I had a shim behind each race. This leads me to believe that preload is not the only concern, but offset as well. Provided the preload is unacceptable with the current shims, should I split the difference between current total shim thickness and new total shim thickness proportionally between the two (i.e. .05 and .10 spacers now and I need .06 more preload, install .06 and .12, or is it more complicated than that?
Glad that worked for you! It is 10X easier than any other way.

You only mess with the shim that doesn't extend into the bore the axle flange passes through. That's an oil slinger of sorts I believe. The other one is the selectable shim for bearing preload.
 
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ryanp

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There is a bolt that guides the shifter tower too, it wears quite badly sometimes and when disturbed can break:


Worn on the left and new on the right
 

Redneck Truck

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Good grief! Both of mine looked new. I guess that's the benefit of buying car parts from the UK: nobody drives in the UK :)

Ryan, I emailed you a request for a quote on a LOT of engine parts. Think you can help me out?
 

Redneck Truck

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new questions. Please, please clarify.
1. Should I grease or lubricate the axle flange and input shaft seals or install them dry?
2. Still unclear about which shim I should leave alone and which I should remove when checking preload.
3. Checked ring gear wobble and have .0015" in each direction, presumably from the gear not seating all the way. What's the tolerance?
4. How much case sealer should I apply, and how long till it cures?
5. Is the G052 fluid acceptable to use?
 

sardo_67

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i just put the diesel geek shifter on mine the other day, the plastic spacer on the stock shift arm was all gunked up and did not slide freely, put the new one in and it is a little better but still has the problem sometimes. what else can i look at other than pulling it back out?
 

Whitbread

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Several
new questions. Please, please clarify.
1. Should I grease or lubricate the axle flange and input shaft seals or install them dry?
2. Still unclear about which shim I should leave alone and which I should remove when checking preload.
3. Checked ring gear wobble and have .0015" in each direction, presumably from the gear not seating all the way. What's the tolerance?
4. How much case sealer should I apply, and how long till it cures?
5. Is the G052 fluid acceptable to use?
1. lube them with trans fluid
2. The shim you mess with has a very close ID/OD, it has the exact same footprint as the bearing race. The other thing you're calling a shim is an oil deflector that has a much smaller ID than the shim. It protrudes into the bore the axle cup shaft passes through.
3. Don't know what you mean by gear wobble. What you need to measure is the free play of the differential bearings with the shim removed and the race re-installed.
4. Right Stuff for Imports (the grey). Apply an 1/8" bead all the way around, you can smooth it down with your fingers if you feel OCD.
5. Yes, I believe there's a newer one out there too. Any of the VW tranny fluids will work fine as will Pennzoil Syncromesh, redline MTL, or amsoil MTL. Any GL-4 gear oil specifically for manual transmissions with yellow metal parts.


i just put the diesel geek shifter on mine the other day, the plastic spacer on the stock shift arm was all gunked up and did not slide freely, put the new one in and it is a little better but still has the problem sometimes. what else can i look at other than pulling it back out?
Pull the white tophat bushings out of the shift tower and run a cartridge roll through there. Re-install the bushings with some light lube and see how it feels now. Should be night and day.
 
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Redneck Truck

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Thanks! Next question: the fluid the dealer sold me is a couple of years old and has some caramelly residue in the bottom like it has separated. I ran the oil through a coffee filter and it caught all that stuff. Was the stuff I just removed necessary?
 

sardo_67

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well i totaled out the silver car in january, combo of a hill, snow, ice, summer tires, and a tree....

ripped apart the driver axle and the passanger is just old i'm guessing, anything with an O2M will work right? i was looking at ones for the 6spd MK4s or the Audi TT, am i correct on this?

the tranny is going into my new car, i found a steel braided clutch line before and thought i posted it but can't find it now. is that something i should get or just go with bending the stock line to make it work?
 

billymade

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Don't own one; 1.8T Turbo S GAS

ryanp

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There is a NEW better option for the shift forks now; they have all STEEL versions made by Volkswagen, to replace the steel/bronze ones. You can get these through USP Motorsports and APTuning. These are 1st/2nd and 3rd/4th.
http://www.uspmotorsports.com/SteelShiftForkTransmissionUpgrade/6Speed-02M/02Q-.html
http://www.aptuning.com/index.php?p...n=com_virtuemart&Itemid=14&vmcchk=1&Itemid=14
The little clear rubber / plastic bits wear on these, making it hard to get gears. They used them on Vauxhalls and one of our mechanics said they gave nothing but problems.

Just my 2p :)
 

billymade

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Don't own one; 1.8T Turbo S GAS
ryanp, thanks for the info; that was one thing, that I was concerned about. The 02M; here in the states, has these steel/bronze shift forks with the rivets that keep failing. I contacted; the vendors, that are selling these and they acted like it was not a issue but you seem to indicate that they are. Thanks for the heads up; what do you, recommend as an alternative? The originals; had the bronze, to wear against the steel selector... I am assuming this softer metal against the steel was less prone to galling with metal/metal contact. Issues like this; I find it so frustrating when VW doesn't make a solid part that isn't failure prone, why would you put plastic in a part like a transmission... that they KNOW is going to wear and cause problems? I think the strength of the steel fork; is the way to go but the plastic at the wear/contact areas, just doesn't make sense! Come on VW! :eek:
 

sardo_67

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If you have the trans apart and do what I did I see no reason this would fail on you. Unless you are just abusing your car and transmission, slamming gears, missing shifts ect.


As for shift forks failing, this happen to daily drivers that are driven normally or usually by people racing or driving hard?
 

manual_tranny

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On mine, I also had to remove this guy to get the tower out
"This guy" caught me by surprise... I did not test it with a magnet and it IS NOT MADE OF STEEL! All of the case bolts in my 02M were steel... I have a GUC code gearbox from a Seat Ibiza.

SO, my first attempt to remove it with a 12-point 16mm socket turned into an accelerated learning experience. The bolt was rounded almost instantly. Crap.

Fight fire with fire, I say. I took a 15mm 12-point and a hammer so that I could perform a broaching operation on the round aluminum bolt head.



It's not pretty, but at least I can keep on muddling through the job. :D
 

dirtride

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How much if any, would this "how to" apply to an O2J LSD install?


After some research, I see that pretty much just drilling out the ring rivets applies.....

Hmm, interesting.
 
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hotshot25120

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Canada
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Im gonna replace my LSD in my mk6 o2Q transmission soon and I have some questions about the install.

First sorry for my poor english its not my primary language.

1- I will not do the shift folks do I need to remove all the gear inside the transmission or I can just open the transmission remove the old diff, put the new one back and seal the transmission.

2- I think the transmission output flange are spring hold how hard is the get them back in ?

3- I think I need to grind the transmission case a little bit for the wavetrack lsd to fit is it true ?

4- repair manual say I need to preload the dial to 1mm and reset it to calculate the diff preload how I suppose to do that ?

Thanks
 
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A5INKY

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There is a NEW better option for the shift forks now; they have all STEEL versions made by Volkswagen, to replace the steel/bronze ones...
The little clear rubber / plastic bits wear on these, making it hard to get gears. They used them on Vauxhalls and one of our mechanics said they gave nothing but problems...
Just ran across this issue with a customer car this week. Car is a 2012 Golf with only ~70K miles on it and it would not shift into first gear at all. I double checked the shifter linkage for wear and adjustment, no issues. Pulled it apart and found this:




All the shift forks are the "updated" all welded steel versions in this 02Q except for reverse. The 1/2 and the 3/4 shift forks were trashed. The center plastic bit on the 3/4 was completely gone. I replaced with OE not having any good alternatives that I could find.

I have a feeling this won't be the last "updated" 02Q shift fork replacement I do.
 
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Whitbread

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That is why I actually prefer the brass 02M forks and advise against people putting in the "upgraded all steel" 02Q forks. Brass will out wear plastic any day of the week.
 

Redneck Truck

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Just make sure you buy the 4motion version of the differential. I did mine myself and you can too.
 

v8 coupe

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I'm a bit laid up still and I'll need it with my vp4.2 fed CR140 with 300hp. Might be an animal on twisty roads.
 

blownaway

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Reviving this one. Can I safely run a used RyanP 02m for awhile without these fixes?
 
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