How much ash is enough?

[lonewolf69]

Here are the results of the weights and flows.....

DPF/CAT Assembly
Received Weight: 17.65 Kg
Level 1 Weight: 16.95 Kg
Level 2 Weight: 15.75 Kg

Initial Flow: 5.4"
Level 1 Flow: 4.9"
Level 2 Flow: 2.4"
(I am assuming that this is the differential pressure expressed in column of liquid). The lower the number the better the flow.

EGR Filter:
Received Weight: 0.85 Kg
Level 1 Weight: 0.75 Kg
Level 2 Weight: 0.70 Kg

Initial Flow: 1.8"
Level 1 Flow: 1.2"
Level 2 Flow: 1.1"

Level 1: Is an air cycle that blows the soot out of DPF/CATALYST
Level 2: Is the Thermal Cycle that incinerates the ash and soot and cleans the filter.

Will post the VCDS measuring blocks 99, 100 and 241 tomorrow.

 

[meerschm]

Thanks,

Have to think about these for a bit.

 

[Henrick]

So a DPF had ~2 kg of ash in it? And the EGR filter had 150 grams? Pretty impressive I'd say.

 

[DPM]

I don't believe those figures, myself.

 

[lonewolf69]

Well, its the total of 3 units. Oxidation Catalytic Converter/DPF/NOx Storage Catalytic Converter. But here is the kicker gentlemen....after resetting the values to "0" after installation, the DPF light is still on. We checked a couple of TDIs in the garage, they all had a value of "0" for Particle Filter Offset Different. Pressure. Mine is still at -3 mbar. I wonder if I have an issue with a pressure sensor.....

 

[meerschm]

I would give it a bit. some of the values seem to take a while to reset.

a few folks who did not replace, but forced a regen, had to drive a bit till the light went out.

might take a bit for the offset to reset. there could also be an adaptation to run, but I would think it would run by itself sooner or later.

on the weight, the original weight also includes whatever soot was in the DPF, as well as around the oxidation cat. I would think there could be a fair bit.

did you have any issues getting the DPF lamp to go out? did it take a little driving?

Thanks again for sharing your experience.

 

[lonewolf69]

Have covered about 350 miles, roughly. Initially, after replacing the DPF, both the DPF light and the Glow Plug lights were "on", with the Glow Plug light blinking. My mechanic mentioned that this is normal and both will go away with driving. In 10 mins, the glow plug light went "off", but the DPF light is still "on".

More importantly, I was looking at the readings that I had taken roughly after driving 30 miles and noticed that the diff.pressure across the DPF was -5 mbar. The one important difference is that the engine was not running at that time. I don't think it matters but will take another set of readings and post.

 

[lonewolf69]

.....after installing the DPF, we ran a long adaptation to reset the values to "0".

 

[meerschm]

I would not be too surprised if it all does not settle down for a while. the emissions are pretty complicated, with the sulfur dioxide cat only getting attention every third to fifth DPF regen. (right after a DPF regen. seems like an overly long one if the only thing you notice are the exhaust temps, or speed increase at idle)

not sure when that DPF pressure adaptation gets set, but it makes sense that if the offset is non-zero, that the value of the differential pressure would show up as negative, until it gets reset.

 

[lonewolf69]

The DPF light was still on until about 2.00pm yesterday (6/1/2015), about 400 miles after installation of the cleaned DPF. Hooked up VAG com and started looking at different values. Everything now looked within range, inclusive of the pressure diffs. But the light was still "on". Decided to do a manual regen while standing. No effect. Decided to do a forced regen and drove the car for 15mins. Still no effect. Note, the engine has been running non stop until now. About 1.5 hrs. Decided to do an Emergency regen. VCDS did not accept code. So gave up on the whole exercise. But had to get my vehicle inspected as it was overdue. Drove to a nearby inspection station. Shut off the engine. Handed the keys over. The car was brought in after about 15 mins. Was curious to see if the DPF light was still on. Was surprised to see it was "off". Was excited that the vehicle will pass inspection. But was issued a "R" because the car's onboard computer was reset. Did not realize that a regen would do a reset. Does not make sense. Was asked to come back in a day or two so the OBC will have some history on the emissions. Since this, I have driven the car a total of 70 odd miles and stopped and started the engine about 5 - 6 times. DPF light is still "off". Hoping that this will be the end of this episode. will post if anything changes or in a week or so to give a status update.

 

[showdown 42]

I have a 09 TDI JSW and am constantly amazed at the issues and problems the current generation of TDIs have with emissions. It is no wonder the average person will have nothing to do with the whole process and expense. Most average drivers don't want to know about all of this stuff.

I love mine,but wonder if this is all worth the effort just to drive a high mileage car. The long term success of diesels will hinge on better equipment that is trouble free for more than 150k miles.

 

[lonewolf69]

Have put on 2K miles after installation of the cleaned DPF. No issues so far. Looks like I am good to go for another 250K miles.

 

[meerschm]

Happy News



Thanks for the update!

 

[Mattyoctavia]

My golf has 186,000 on it now, hooked up my Bosch diagnostics, measured oil ash volume is 74g. I'm not sure if this is a lot or not?? The car seems to do its own regen every 220-250 miles. 90% of my driving is high speed fairly long distance. (Around 90 miles each way)
Does it look like I will be needing a new dpf soon?

 

[meerschm]

I would think you could be good for a while.

there are probably differences between the US spec cars and yours.

(example is ours read oil ash volume in milliliters)
even though it says measured, the number comes from some computer program. not like there is a scale that weighs it.

seems to me the lesson here is that as long as regens are happening on a regular basis, and no check engine lights, you are ok.

are there local places you can have the DPF cleaned?

seems like over here, as long as the DPF does not crack, it is good for well over 200,000 miles, 250,000 more likely.

 

[Mattyoctavia]

Great! Thanks for your help an info meerschm. I was starting think a new dpf is on the cards shortly. Being a dsg transmission I know when it's doing a regen so always continue to drive when this happens. A bit anal really haha.

 

[Jeta Life]

VW used to be the people's car

I recall the diesels of the past being noisy, dirty but tough.
Today's "Clean" diesel is quieter and much faster, but much more sensitive just like today's people, we have changed like our cars.
I'm trying to understand this DPF/EGR thing but my skull is too thick, don't bother guys but please try to help me. My DPF has a high ash level (don't want to know it) the car still runs like hell, as Pink Floyd used to say and how I feel this car likes to be driven.
I love it when it cruises in the rightmost lane at 55 to 60 with Pearl Jam too. Hit those ramps hard guys you know why, the car is speaking to us. It hates city driving, stop and go oh no.
Now this DPF thing is making me paranoid, we paid a lot for these beautiful 09 machines but should we have waited for the 10s, not really fair VW, you know what you have to do. I never thought to check the tailpipe with a napkin, but I read about it here and I did that and am starting to get more and more paranoid. Is this "Clean" diesel I don't care it still runs good and I am not about to shell out 5 to 6 G's like the dealer said. I laughed at him when he told me that number.
I recall the people of the 70s and 80s loving their cars, hey I even used to get my hands dirty too, even changing the oil myself, and the Zymol waxing too. I want my kids to go to college and drive VWs too, but VW has to do the right thing if their one piece emissions design was a flaw, why should all of us have to worry. I guess we should have waited for the 10. But should we be punished and should we all keep worrying or just drive. I am just going to just keep driving even if there is a little soot in the exhaust.

 

[turbobrick240]

Hey man, pass the dube, dark side of the moon is on the radio.

 

[Jeta Life]

Thank you but I'll settle for a beer, an American one next time, later dude.

 

[meerschm]

be like the little fish in the movies

just keep driving
just keep driving
just keep driving

 

[Jeta Life]

Thanks meerschm and turbo brick
I'm getting the p0401 now so what's new right. EGR something or another. I really like this 09 jetta tdi, but it's like the 4th time in my 2 years and 8 months of ownership, the DPF light came on for the first time last week but went away after the highway drive.
You're right about driving and not worrying so much that's a good philosophy, and the thing runs great. Having read a little about the rather complex emissions on this tdi it is really an engineering marvel but with all the sensors, converters, valves etc. I wonder just wonder and I can't go straight pipe which I'm sure would alleviate this.
I bought into the VW tdi thing and love some of the diesel monsters Audi, Mercedes and BMW, the torque on those is even more amazing than this but being on a budget makes long term ownership rather than leasing still puzzling. Leasing saves maintenance costs but owning usually saves money. Based on past cars I've owned $3000 per year usually covers it.
A 25 G car should last 8 years, so what can we do right. Having purchased it certified with 63k on it was a gamble but I need to get at least 3 more years out of it, but I'll probably go for a certified GTI next, regular gas though, those GTIs are beautiful, a poor man's Porsche right. And this tdi is just a poor man's Audi.
I used to love those old Mercedes diesels too. Those past diesels like those Rabbits of the 70s and other 80s models Golfs are classics.

 

[meerschm]

So that error should be figured out and fixed.

of course if you have read, you know i would encourage you to fix it , but up to you

you would have some trouble in New Jersey with a modified system trying to pass emissions inspection.

could be you have an intermittent sensor, which may or may not be related to the DPF light.

i would get to a good TDI mechanic and see what is up. (or get a VCDS and learn fast)

You really do need the VW specific computer to get the full idea of what is going on, and if your DPF has an issue, or just got caught up in other sensor problems. if the sensors are keeping the DPF from getting the proper care and feeding, it could end up sicker than you want.


so, just keep driving, but if you see a warning light, get it fixed, then keep driving.

 

[turbobrick240]

I too have looked upon many gti's with lust. I've comitted adultery in my heart many times. Now pass me a Billy Beer! (a little Jimmy Carter humor) BTW some of those diesel Audi's are no joke!

 

[Jeta Life]

Better to not ignore warnings

Consider the beer can passed Jimmy Carter the 70s president
Right now though I do have to worry about the DPF can instead and then I can drink my lite beer and try to slowly lose this pot belly
My mechanic who usually only fixes Japanese cars is a master tech, he just put in four Bilsteins brand new ones and it rides even softer, he only charged me $850, next those 4 Pirelli Cinturato P7s seem to have good reviews, v rated not that I will drive that fast ha ha but I will have him check the VCDS he is a family man too
The Hankooks were OEM I think right, my previous owner went to Nexen CP641 and I could tell you I gave them a beating but they did not perform well in the snowy winters of New Jersey, we have had two straight tough winters and these Pirellis seem to have a better snow review, but then again it's the driver and not the tire right
Later guys

 

[showdown 42]

If I hear this discussion correctly if you don't live in a required test emission state you can eliminate the DPF when it fails and go on your merry way. I do live in such a state. I'll take the guilt of my polluting JSW.

 

[Jeta Life]

Yeah Deleting DPF and EGR not an option for all of us

So it goes, NJ's laws are too ball breaking
Reading some posts on this subject just makes for more frustration for those of us who have to deal with emissions laws
Strange how 2 people with exact same car in different states can probably tell vastly different stories
The exhaust flap warranty was extended to 120k and I just had that done by the dealer last month and they performed that ash load diagnosis and sure enough the DPF came on
I had the DSG flush done too but laughed at the notion of having to pay 5 to 6 G's on a new emissions system, just hoping the DPF regens are taking place so I continue to take the sage old advice of "drive it like you stole it" and hope for the turbo to kick in and burn all that **** out of the exhaust, what can we do we're all in the same predicament may as well go out with a bang
Unless of course VW extends warranties

 

[meerschm]

How long till you have to get your car inspected again?

a less expensive legal option to the full dealer fix is to find and buy an NOX cat from one of the later model TDIs, and then you can either get a DPF/DOC from the same source, or buy a reconditioned one for under $900. should also be able to find a mechanic who knows what is up with the diesels and charges less than the dealer per hour.

there are for sale threads here someplace.

 

[Jeta Life]

I hear ya I am not crazy to give the dealer that much they must be crazy to ask for that much

I will exhaust all options including purchasing a used one from somebody here who did the delete and is now selling the scraps, my mechanic is a street saavy guy so I'll see what he has to say

P0401 I'll try to figure out where the EGR valve is maybe it's that too, my inspection is good till late 2016 so I'm not going to panic