How many mg per stroke can a stock ALH engine inject?

[JossuTossu]

I'm working on a remap for my ALH, so i figured I'd ask you guys, what is the fuel limit you guys have hit with the stock ALH engine? Thank you in advance!

 

[KERMA]

4.9 volts is the maximum. -ish

 

[adamss24]

As above, you saturate the voltage map at about 5 volts hence why everyone fit larger nozzles to go beyond what the max settings can muster!!

 

[tdi_my live]

With 10mm Pump, 4500rpm=4,9Volt=53mg/str
If you want drive 4,9Volt at 3000rpm, you can inject 69mg/str with 10mm Pump, but than you reach at 4500rpm 4,99 Volt

With 11mm Pump, 4500rpm=4,9Volt=60mg/str
If you want drive 4,9Volt at 3000rpm, you can inject 80mg/str with 11mm Pump, but than you reach at 4500rpm 5,54 Volt

 

[JossuTossu]

With 10mm Pump, 4500rpm=4,9Volt=53mg/str
If you want drive 4,9Volt at 3000rpm, you can inject 69mg/str with 10mm Pump, but than you reach at 4500rpm 4,99 Volt

With 11mm Pump, 4500rpm=4,9Volt=60mg/str
If you want drive 4,9Volt at 3000rpm, you can inject 80mg/str with 11mm Pump, but than you reach at 4500rpm 5,54 Volt

69mg/st @3000rpm? Wow that's a lot higher than I expected, that's almost double the stock ammount. Anyway thank you guys!

 

[tdi_my live]

This is about the injection quantity.
The series turbocharger from the ALH cannot process this amount.

 

[Mongler98]

Bottom line were getting at... dont bother tuning or trying to get more power from stock hardware on these engines and most of the early TDIs up till the 2010+ ish.
Swap nozzles and turbo.
It's not so much the amount of fuel as it is the spray pattern and atomization of said spray pattern.
All things being exact equal with the exception of upgraded nozzles along with decreasing QA to keep EGTs down on a no tune engine..... you will see more mpg and more power depending on how you drive.
Worn old nozzles vs much better spray and not necessarily more of it.
It's a complicated tune map that the ECU has. This is why some members cant wrap their heads around why electric IPs and ECUs are better than a mechanical or M-pump

 

[JossuTossu]

This is about the injection quantity.
The series turbocharger from the ALH cannot process this amount.

Yeah, I figured as much. I've raised the boost by around 0.2bar, so it burned 50mg/str cleanly, no smoke. Now I have to figure out how much I can raise the fuel without raising the boost any more... The smoke limiter on the new map i'm working on keeps the AFR at 15:1, so i guess I'll see how it goes...

 

[JossuTossu]

Bottom line were getting at... dont bother tuning or trying to get more power from stock hardware on these engines and most of the early TDIs up till the 2010+ ish.
Swap nozzles and turbo.
It's not so much the amount of fuel as it is the spray pattern and atomization of said spray pattern.
All things being exact equal with the exception of upgraded nozzles along with decreasing QA to keep EGTs down on a no tune engine..... you will see more mpg and more power depending on how you drive.
Worn old nozzles vs much better spray and not necessarily more of it.
It's a complicated tune map that the ECU has. This is why some members cant wrap their heads around why electric IPs and ECUs are better than a mechanical or M-pump

That is true, but I luckily have a PD115 engine laying around that I wish to swap in, so I don't want to dump too much money into the ALH engine...

 

[adamss24]

Knowing pd engines they have a much shorter power band than ve engines, if anything the rods and pistons from the AJM are a good upgrade to the VE engine…pd is easier to upgrade on stock hardware- nozzles don’t require upgrade unless going over 260bhp. The ve is harder to keep in check with larger nozzles and 11mm pump but it has a much broader power band and top end is bulletproof compared to pd engines. AJM is mild upgrade to your ve engine, either go pd130/150 or stay VE !

 

[JossuTossu]

If you don't mind me asking, what causes the PD powerband to be worse than the VE powerband? I thought the Pumpe Duse would be better at higher rpms than the old VE's

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Bottom line were getting at... dont bother tuning or trying to get more power from stock hardware on these engines and most of the early TDIs up till the 2010+ ish.

What??
I've been around for before and after dynos from years ago where ALH TDIs went from 90ish WHP to 125 WHP with a tune only, all stock hardware. Tuning is about a lot more than fuel, but fuel can be increased via tuning as well.

 

[Mongler98]

What??
I've been around for before and after dynos from years ago where ALH TDIs went from 90ish WHP to 125 WHP with a tune only, all stock hardware. Tuning is about a lot more than fuel, but fuel can be increased via tuning as well.

I did not say you can't, but that it's better to go with a better spraying nozzle. They are cheap.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Apples and elephants. Tunes do much more than adjust fueling. I'm sure you're aware of that .

 

[Mongler98]

Apples and elephants. Tunes do much more than adjust fueling. I'm sure you're aware of that .

100% with you in that. I was just referring to just manually increasing the injection.
Essentially what OP was getting at is a overy complicated but better way to do an evry mod.
We all know how bad the evry mod is. That's why I was concerned that just increasing the injection map is a generally bad idea if that's all that done!
Maybe I missed something but that's what my impression this thread was about.......
#1 best power to $ is nozzles.
#1 best overall power mod per $ is a tune.

 

[JossuTossu]

hahah in my defence I'd like to think I didn't just do an evry mod. I reworked the boost map in accordance with the new fuel map, readjusted the smoke limiter, driver wish map and now thanks to you guys reworked the N146 Pump voltage map, again raising the fuel and a teeeeny bit of extra boost (now at 1.24bar/18psi). I just didn't know how much I could raise the fuel, so I figured I'd ask. But indeed, if i go further, nozzles are the first thing I'll order, Mongler brought out some good points about them I didn't consider before..

 

[huebi]

Knowing pd engines they have a much shorter power band than ve engines, if anything the rods and pistons from the AJM are a good upgrade to the VE engine…pd is easier to upgrade on stock hardware- nozzles don’t require upgrade unless going over 260bhp. The ve is harder to keep in check with larger nozzles and 11mm pump but it has a much broader power band and top end is bulletproof compared to pd engines. AJM is mild upgrade to your ve engine, either go pd130/150 or stay VE !

On an AFN engine you can use the rods of the AJM/ATJ engine. They have the old smaller bottom end matching the AFN. Instead of the AJM/ATJ pistons with only 9 mm piston top land I would prefer to combine the rods with the pistons of the AVF/ARL with 12 mm piston top land. These pistons have the coolest piston ring area compared to all other piston in the 2V engines. It's not fun to get the oil spray nozzles adjusted to point the spray directly into the coolant hole at the bottom of the PD pistons. But it's really worth it. Another good combination could be an AVF engine lower end with an ALH/ASV cylinder head with all the stuff needed for the VP37 injection pump. Just use the ARL cylinder head screws because they are made of higher strength steel (12.9 instead of 10.9).

 

[adamss24]

That would be an extreme engine build ! I would only use rods from AJM or just go aftermarket forged rods, much cheaper ! Granted the AVF/ASZ/ARL is the strongest bottom end you can fit to a VE style head but it’s lots of work for little gain.
On my ve mk2 golf with ALE engine I used pistons from ibiza 1.9 tdi engine and AJM rods , sputter bearings and a sdi cam…coupled with 11mm pump from AHH engine, bosio race 520 nozzles fitted to AEL 140 Bhp injectors and a Saab 2.3 turbo and I have a very, very potent little car which can stretch its legs and show a pair of clean heels to many modern souped up machines ! Fuel consumption has remained largely unchanged but the grin factor has doubled !

 

[adamss24]

Pd150 headbolts and black lifters are also a good upgrade to stop the head from lifting !