How is Mobil diesel fuel?

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SkyPup

Guest
light some up and smoke it sometime!


If it starts hard, smokes, clanks, and sounds like a TurboCummins, most likely it is crummy. The chances of it being good are about 1 ot of 5,000. If it starts instantly, idles so smooth you can't tell it is running, does not clank, and does not smoke, plus there are no fish swimming in it and Ric Woodruff has not personally endorsed it, then you know it has got to be good.
 

JeffT

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 4, 1999
Location
Diesel is diesel is diesel!
Skypup, I will agree that the diesel available around here COULD be very different from the stuff you can buy in FL. It probably does come from a different refinery and may be superior or inferior in quality to the stuff you can buy in CT.

However, if you travel from gas station to gas station (in FL or CT), all supplied by the same port, all serviced by the same jobbers, then that diesel is the same, no matter the brand. That is unless it is a specific type of fuel with very specific claims. Otherwise its the same swill regardless of its brand. No differences between Citgo, Mobil, Shell, etc, unless you're buying 50 Cetane premium.
 

Universe

Active member
Joined
Nov 24, 2000
Location
Danbury, Ct , USA
I can't speak for the diesel in any other part of the country. I know that in Ct the vast majority of diesel comes in on huge barges and is pumped into holding tanks right on Long Island Sound. All the distributors pump from these tanks. If they add there own formulas to the mix after I have no idea. There are no refineries here and all the diesel is the same unless its trucked in from elsewhere. Ammoco may be diferent, it runs better in my trucks and my car. I only know of one dealer close to me and no one speaks english there. The fuel is hands down the best though. If you are in Ct and not running this fuel I believe the stuff in your fuel oil tank, the texaco tank, the mobil tank etc. Is the same exact fuel.
 
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SkyPup

Guest
The HESS plant in the Virgin Islands is the largest refinery supplying 80% of US East Coast diesel fuel middle distillate supply, what happens to that after it arrives on shore and is sold is another matter, I have reams and reams of information on this but too much to post here.

Here is another nice spiel on ULSD (ultra low sulphur diesel) so that you begin to get an idea of the difficulty involved coordinating all the refiners that supply the entire nation (that does not include all the middlemen, jobbers, wholesalers, etc.) but it is alot more complex and complicated that what you think as evidenced by the tens of thousands of pages of information on the public record at the USEPA regarding this issue. Please read this and THEN let me know what you think (remember there are about 150 refiners supplying fuel to about 60,000 sellers):

U.S. EPA’s latest twist – proposing to require 80% of U.S. highway diesel production in mid-2006 to be ultra-low-sulfur diesel (ULSD with a 15 ppm sulfur cap) – drives debate as the diesel rule nears finalization, perhaps this week.

In meetings with EPA and the White House Office of Management & Budget (OMB), U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) now counter-proposes a 50% ULSD phase-in, and is getting moral support from the White House Council of Economic Advisors (CEA), which also favors a phase-in of ULSD as a lower-cost pathway.

DOE earlier proposed a 20% initial phase-in, but is telling EPA it would accept a 50% initial phase-in if accompanied by ULSD retail availability requirements and possible economic incentives. EPA and DOE heatedly disagree on cost implications of ULSD phase-ins.

Meantime, a broad coalition of environmental groups, automakers, engine makers, emissions control developers and independent refiner Tosco now urge that the White House and EPA stick to a "fully implemented" ULSD roll-out in 2006, rather than a smaller-scale, lengthier phase-in favored by DOE.

"Any phase-in approach that results in a two-fuel system would jeopardize the environmental benefits of the rule; delay sales of the new cleaner diesel engines; require unnecessary multibillion dollar capital investments by the nation's diesel refiners, transporters and sellers; and
result in a needless burden on the nation's truck operators and 58,000 retail fuel sellers," the letter to President Clinton from the greens/autos/emissions control makers says.

Under the latest EPA proposal, refiners in each of the five regional Petroleum Administration Districts (PADs) in the U.S. would have to
supply 80% ULSD in mid-2006. In practical terms, those refiners choosing to make ULSD would likely switch to 100% ULSD production, then sell sulfur credits to non-ULSD refiners, including refiners in other PADs. Non-ULSD refiners could continue to make today’s 500 ppm sulfur cap highway diesel, and sell it to non-catalyst-equipped highway vehicles for three extra years.

EPA figures that roughly 60 U.S. refineries (about half the U.S. total), representing about 80% of highway diesel volume, would supply the required ULSD.

Those 60 refineries aren’t necessarily just the larger refineries, industry and government analysts agree. While many smaller refineries are seen as facing a tougher cost hurdle to produce ULSD, market factors – such as higher-margin ULSD market opportunities – may entice some of them to play in the ULSD market. Or, some of them may enter toll processing or other cost-sharing schemes with neighboring refiners, to reduce their total cost and capital risk for ULSD.

In the fourth year of EPA’s latest phase-in proposal, refiners who want to continue to play in the highway diesel market would have to make or sell 100% ULSD, rather than today’s conventional diesel fuel. Those quitting the highway market might play instead in the off-highway diesel market unless EPA requires similarly costly sulfur reductions in off-road diesel during this decade.

DOE argues that a smaller and slower ULSD phase-in, possibly combined with certain retail availability requirements, likewise could achieve EPA’s air quality goals, but at lower total cost to consumers, and possibly avoid a ULSD supply/price crisis in mid-2006. As new, fuel-sulfur-sensitive "clean" trucks replace older "dirty" trucks in future years, marketplace demand would gradually drive refiners to replace conventional diesel with ULSD, DOE argues.

‘Price Convergence’ Theory

Similarly, the White House Council of Economic Advisors (CEA) argues
that if refiners produce excess ULSD in the early years of phase-in, then they’ll have to cut prices (and margins) on ULSD to compete with conventional diesel sales. However, they could recoup part of this loss by selling sulfur credits to non-ULSD refiners, CEA figures. These refiners in turn would try to recoup sulfur credit costs by raising prices on
conventional diesel, which would tend to make ULSD and 500 ppm sulfur highway diesel prices converge.

So, CEA’s "price convergence" argument aims to trump EPA arguments and vehicle/engine maker/environmentalist worries that truckers and car owners would wreck sulfur-sensitive emissions control systems by buying cheaper, 500 ppm sulfur diesel fuel during a phase-in. But that argument doesn’t seem to generate much enthusiasm among groups defending EPA’s position.

"Obviously there are legitimate economic reasons why EPA might want to ease requirements for some small refiners – a step that could be taken without subjecting the whole nation to a dual-fuel scheme," Clean Air Trust said in a statement. But the Trust also ripped what it called "faceless bureaucrats" at DOE who are "launching a nasty, behind-the-scenes campaign to disrupt the EPA’s plan to eliminate most of the sulfur from diesel fuel by mid-2006."

Using less inflammatory language, but just as adamant in backing EPA’s 2006 ULSD plan, were several green groups and auto/engine makers in their joint letter to President Clinton.

"Our organizations believe that the only logical approach to making this shift is a single, national fuel containing sulfur capped at 15 ppm, fully implemented in mid-2006," said the letter signed by Natural Resources
Defense Council, U.S. Public Interest Research Group, American Lung
Association, Sierra Club, Clean Air Network, Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, Tosco, International Truck & Engine, Manufacturers of Emission Controls Association, California Trucking Association,
STAPPA/ALAPCO (state air pollution officials), NESCAUM (Northeast state air pollution officials), BMW, DaimlerChrysler, Fiat, Ford, GM, Isuzu, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Porsche, Toyota, Volkswagen and Volvo.

Public Overwhelmingly Favors Diesel Clean-Up

Meantime, American Lung Association released results of a new national survey showing overwhelming public support for dramatically cleaner diesel fuel and emissions standards.

Some 85% of Americans favor requiring diesel vehicles to use the best-available pollution control technology even if it costs more money, the ALA survey found.

A similar ALA poll earlier this year also found strong national support for cleaner diesels, and such support has increased by 10 percentage points since then.

The support cuts across party lines, U.S. geography and demographic groups. More than 80% of Republicans favor tough diesel pollution regulations, along with 87% of independents and 90% of Democrats, the poll shows.

Only 21% of voters said they believed claims made by industry groups
that cleaner diesel fuel could cost 20 cents/gallon more than today’s diesel fuel, the survey found.
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
Look who's signing off on the Low Sulphur Diesel Fuel Reg - Very Interesting! It is this coalation against on other group, the refiners!


"
"Our organizations believe that the only logical approach to making this shift is a single, national fuel containing
sulfur capped at 15 ppm, fully implemented in mid-2006," said the letter signed by Natural Resources
Defense Council, U.S. Public Interest Research Group, American Lung Association, Sierra Club, Clean Air Network, Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, Tosco, International Truck & Engine, Manufacturers of Emission Controls Association, California Trucking Association, STAPPA/ALAPCO (state air pollution officials), NESCAUM (Northeast state air pollution officials), BMW, DaimlerChrysler, Fiat, Ford, GM, Isuzu, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Porsche, Toyota, Volkswagen and Volvo."
 

Universe

Active member
Joined
Nov 24, 2000
Location
Danbury, Ct , USA
one thing is for certain, I never realized the many variances in diesel fuels until I bought my tdi. My trucks run the same (seemingly) on anything you put in them. Long term effects are yet to be seen but one has over 150k on it and I've beat the heck out of it along the way. The tdi motor is the most refined and quiet but also the most finicky about what I put in it. Its just as well if all we bought was the good diesel maybe they'll stop making the bad.
 

JeffT

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 4, 1999
Location
Diesel is diesel is diesel!
All diesel fuel comes out of the same spigot unless they make specific claims as to a specific cetane number, "premium" or other special additives. Otherwise Mobil diesel is the same as any other.

For further example, Mobil Premium gasoline is different than Amoco Premium, but their regular and mid-grade gasolines are probably the same.
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
All diesel fuel in the USA does not come out of the same spigot, it is highly variable based on which one of the numerous refineries it comes out of. There are quite large variations, in fact alot of diesel fuel doesn't even meet minimum standards and is worse than crap to begin with. JeffT's comment is way off base.
 

JeffT

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 4, 1999
Location
Diesel is diesel is diesel!
Universe, yes I agree Amoco may be different, especially since they claim that their diesel is a better premium grade. I don't have any Amocos around me.

Are you talking about the Amoco on 84 near Danbury? That station I believe is serviced by Amoco from NY, not from CT.

Where are you buying Amoco?
 

Universe

Active member
Joined
Nov 24, 2000
Location
Danbury, Ct , USA
The Amoco I use is off exit 10 of I84 in Newtown Ct. The station in Danbury doesn't sell diesel. The Newtown store is the only one I've found close to me that has the premier. I used Mobil in my TDI once and could tell the difference right away. The Newtown Amoco may very well get there diesel from a Ny distributor but I am not sure.
 

JeffT

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 4, 1999
Location
Diesel is diesel is diesel!
Yeah, that's the Amoco I was thinking of. It probably has the best diesel in the state. When I'm over that way (very infrequently) I try to stop there. Everything else around here is the same for me.
 

Veep

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 12, 2000
Location
New Britain, CT
TDI
Golf GLS, 2000, Silver
Over here in central CT, our choices include Mobil Diesel+ (runs fine in my tdi but costs in the $1.70's), Citgo, (in the $1.50's but my mileage drops a little) and Hess. (in the mid $1.60's and the best of the three in my car) The Hess is marketed as a "premium low sulphur" on the pump, and also marked "winterized". Amoco stations are non-existant over here, let alone any with premium diesel

------------------
2000 Golf GLS TDi 5spd Silver on Black
 

Alchemy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2000
Location
N/A
TDI
None thanks to dieselgate
I fill up on Mobil diesel most of the time, and have had good results. Whatever Citgo does to their fuel to make it into junk is beyond me. I usually fill up at the Mobil on highway 57 in Adell.

For best results, order some Cetane booster from Turbo Steve... The darn stuff works great in the winter!



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2000 Jetta GLS TDI - Luxury Package - Atlantic Blue - Beige Leather - 5 Speed
 

Switca

RIP, Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Mar 29, 1999
Location
Flat lands of Delaware
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SkyPup:
If it starts hard, smokes, clanks, and sounds like a TurboCummins, most likely it is crummy. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you implying that the concafeny of noise that eminates from under the hood of my 96 Dodge Ram 2500 and the toxic cloud of smoke from it's tail pipe is bad?

I'll have you know my neighbors think it's a religious experience when I fire that monster up at 6AM when it's cold...

"Good Heavens! What's that noise?!"
 

JeffT

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 4, 1999
Location
Diesel is diesel is diesel!
I always use Mobil, mainly cause its the only CC I have. Its just the plain old diesel. Never use anything else unless I have trouble finding a Mobil.

In the northeast there's a mobil on every Interstate and in most towns.
 

JeffT

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 4, 1999
Location
Diesel is diesel is diesel!
Steve, I don't use any. Last year I used Power Service and also Red Line Catalyst. This year I'm keeping it real. I'm a purist and will stay that way till I get burned anyway!

I've been driving diesel VWs since 1985 and have never used any additives until I started visiting this forum last year.

[This message has been edited by JeffT (edited December 19, 2000).]
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
MOBIL FACTS speak for themselves, numerous stations provide numerous grades of diesel fuel to a wide variety of cities, towns, etc.. Each distributor provides a different quality of diesel fuel with different additives depending on which particular station you fill up at.

JeffT's wishful daydreams regarding all the Mobil diesel fuel being identical are his own daydreams on this matter.
 

JeffT

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 4, 1999
Location
Diesel is diesel is diesel!
And Skypup's rants about how "all the diesel is different, unique and beautiful in its own way man!!" is the remnant flashback of an ingestion of 100 psilocybin fungi in 1968. Or was it 1967??

Diesel is diesel, at least in the Northeast man!!!

[This message has been edited by JeffT (edited December 19, 2000).]
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
JeffT, how could possibly be running VW diesels for the last 15 years and NOT have a clue that all the diesel fuel stations were supplying different varieties of diesel fuel to you? What gives man, you sound like Ric Woodruff


Ignorance is Bliss!
hehe, at least Ric thinks so!
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
hehehe!
My mushroom tea leaves are telling me the facts about diesel fuel, contrary to what "Ectasy" you've been flying around on!
lol
 

Turbo Steve

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 11, 2000
Location
.
JeffT:

Have you ever purchased a bad tank of fuel?

If not, consider yourself extremely fortunate because Ric only has had one bad tank (actually one good tank) of fuel in 15 years and says the 2TF was very good too.
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
WOW, this stuff sounds GREAT. Too bad JeffT hasn't know anything about it for the last 15 years
They even tell you where to purchase it from what distributors in what city in what state, outstanding!

Hey JeffT, how blissful is that IGNORANCE???
lol

Mobil Diesel PowerPlusTM

Premium #2 Diesel Fuel

Mobil Diesel PowerPlus is a high quality, low sulfur diesel fuel formulated with synthetic additives to meet National Conference of Weights and Measure's
specifications for premium diesel fuels. Mobil Diesel PowerPlus will out perform ordinary diesel fuels meeting ASTM D975 specification 2-D low sulfur.

Mobil Diesel PowerPlus performance includes:

"Superior" rating on Cummins L-10 detergency test

30% Improved Lubricity

Up to 4% Fuel Economy Improvement

Up to 5% Increase in Available Horsepower
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
This Mobil #2 Premium is WIDELY available in JeffT's backyard. JeffT, time to stop playing in the sandbox and treat your TDI to some to some first class fuel. You can thank me for informing you about it later!
hehe
 

JeffT

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 4, 1999
Location
Diesel is diesel is diesel!
In fact I have never found any premium diesel at any of my local stations. I have always looked around for it too. There was one station's pumps that "said" premium, but it was also 40 cetane, so I passed.
 
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