How can I most easily remove the sludge from the intake manifold?

[Jerry Freeman]

Is there a good way to decarburize/clean out the built-up sludge without removing the intake manifold?

Thanks in advance for your help with this.

 

[super1]

Is there a good way to decarburize/clean out the built-up sludge without removing the intake manifold?

Thanks in advance for your help with this.

If you do it with the manifold and installed, which is not recommended you run the risk of getting carbon deposits into your engine, which could be catastrophic

 

[Jerry Freeman]

That's very helpful. The question is for a friend who has a 1999 Beetle TDI. When I did my 2000 Jetta TDI, I removed the intake manifold and did the propane torch/compressed air barbeque burnout technique. It was wonderful fun and worked great. I also blocked the EGR system to keep the manifold from sludging up again.

Is there another method besides the burnout technique that my friend could do with the manifold out of the car?

 

[super1]

That's very helpful. The question is for a friend who has a 1999 Beetle TDI. When I did my 2000 Jetta TDI, I removed the intake manifold and did the propane torch/compressed air barbeque burnout technique. It was wonderful fun and worked great. I also blocked the EGR system to keep the manifold from sludging up again.

Is there another method besides the burnout technique that my friend could do with the manifold out of the car?

Does he not wanna remove his intake??
You can take it off and send it to like a machine shop that has a hot tank, but I think the burnout method works the best fast and cheap

 

[Jerry Freeman]

I'll tell him. He was hoping he wouldn't have to remove the intake but he can do it. He's an ASE master technician with a fully equipped professional shop.

He's new to TDIs and I've been helping him. The 1999 Beetle TDI sat in a garage for ten years until a few weeks ago when he took his tow truck down to Long Island where the car was sitting and brought it here to Connecticut. I was impressed how fast he sorted through a bunch of problems and got it running, the main problem that was keeping it from starting being a bad crank sensor.

But he complains that the car still smokes badly and lacks power. I advised him to decarburize the intake manifold and see how it runs after that. Am I on the right track?

 

[super1]

I'll tell him. He was hoping he wouldn't have to remove the intake but he can do it. He's an ASE master technician with a fully equipped professional shop.

He's new to TDIs and I've been helping him. The 1999 Beetle TDI sat in a garage for ten years until a few weeks ago when he took his tow truck down to Long Island where the car was sitting and brought it here to Connecticut. I was impressed how fast he sorted through a bunch of problems and got it running, the main problem that was keeping it from starting being a bad crank sensor.

But he complains that the car still smokes badly and lacks power. I advised him to decarburize the intake manifold and see how it runs after that. Am I on the right track?

I think the 1999s are the same but he should be able to take ASV valve out and look inside the intake manifold just to see how much carbon is in manifold

 

[Jerry Freeman]

That is true, and simple for him to do. Do you think I'm on the right track thinking a sludged-up intake may be contributing to the smoking and lackluster performance?

 

[csstevej]

When was the TB last done……. I’d start there especially if it’s been 10 years and start from there. Smoking can be from the TIming being severely retarded , what does it smell like ?

 

[Jerry Freeman]

To your point, though ...

The amount of carbon in my 2000 Jetta's intake wasn't very much but there was a thin layer throughout. It's been a long time and I don't remember clearly, but I think maybe 1/8 inch or so. Nonetheless, there was a significant improvement in performance after I did the burnout procedure.

 

[Jerry Freeman]

I don't know when the timing belt was last done but he said it looks good and the engine seems correctly timed.

 

[Jerry Freeman]

He doesn't want to get too invested in the car until he can get a good sense of how it will run. Certainly the timing belt should be replaced, but I don't think he's likely to replace it right away unless there's an immediate problem with the timing belt. I think after we get it running closer to its potential he'll be ready to go ahead and replace the timing belt. We're talking about tunes, nozzles and clutches, rear sway bar, TT rear control arm bushing. If we can get to the place where he's ready to go all-in, I think we'll have a new TDI enthusiast.

 

[csstevej]

Looking good means nothing…….if it’s ten years old I’d be looking at doing a full TB kit , anything that touches the tb gets changed……water pump , tensioner , rollers….
Start fresh , it’s not the belt that fails it’s something else in the tb path.

 

[Jerry Freeman]

That's good advice and I'll pass it along to him. But he's not going to do any of that until he gets it running better. He's still on the fence about this car. The immediate question is, do you think we're on the right track thinking it might smoke less and run better if we de-gunk the intake?

 

[csstevej]

Just a heads up if the TB belt or a component fails i, it’s gonna cost a lot more that just a TB kit……. Your replacing the head at a minimum depending on where or how the car was be driven and rpm it happened , could also have bent rods……. Just some advice……. I’ve had to replace my DD head and two bent connecting rods due to PO’s mechanic fubared the TB.

 

[csstevej]

I recently sold my 01 golf with 447,xxx miles on it and it’s still trucking.
At 392,xxx miles the HG blew, still had the original crosshatch makes on the cylinder walls.
Put a good head on and new HG and all was good.

 

[Rob Mayercik]

I recently sold my 01 golf with 447,xxx miles on it and it’s still trucking.
At 392,xxx miles the HG blew, still had the original crosshatch makes on the cylinder walls.
Put a good head on and new HG and all was good.

I had a new head put on my 02 Jetta's engine last summer at 504K miles, mechanic said it still had the factory honing marks too. 14K miles in with the new head and runs fantastic.

 

[Jerry Freeman]

I understand about the consequences of a failed timing belt. Regarding the cylinder honing marks still visible after 400,000+ miles, I've seen photos here of another example exactly like what you are describing. These cars are amazing.

 

[Jerry Freeman]

When was the TB last done……. I’d start there especially if it’s been 10 years and start from there. Smoking can be from the TIming being severely retarded , what does it smell like ?

Oh, I didn't see this. I'll tell him. I don't know what the smoke smells like, haven't been near the car when it was running long enough to notice. What does the smell tell you?

 

[Jerry Freeman]

When was the TB last done……. I’d start there especially if it’s been 10 years and start from there. Smoking can be from the TIming being severely retarded , what does it smell like ?

He has professional diagnostic software. I assume he can check and make sure the timing is correct, yes?

 

[AndyBees]

If I missed these points, my apologies.

So, when does the engine smoke? What color is the smoke (white or black). White generally means too little air. Black means too much fuel.

Has the Engine/Car been scanned for DTCs using VCDS? I'd start there. Look for the timing. Look at the injection balance. A bad injector can cause smoke and other issues.

I recently acquired an 01 Jetta with 477k miles on it. The compression on all 4 cylinders were very close and about center of spec. The car is rough looking but everything works, including the AC. I installed a known good Injection Pump. It runs great. My point is, these are great engines.... even when neglected. But, as others are saying, looking the other way when it comes to the Timing Belt and the associated components is neglect.

Likely, if the Timing is set correctly, the smoking may go away.

Lastly, a plugged Intake down to the size of a quarter at the EGR assembly will most likely not be noticed. The engine doesn't need much air at idle and the Turbo will push all the air it needs through the small hole. Take it off to clean it...................... and, clean the intake runners in the head one cylinder at a time with the valve closed. A pic and vacuum cleaner followed with any cleaner of your choice and then followed with a tooth brush and Dawn liquid and water. Of course, you need a means to suck out an liquid followed with compressed air to blow-out any loose stuff. Working over the back of the engine is a pain in the ass and back. The reason the Intake Runners need to be cleaned is there is a "bridge" of baked crud between the Intake and Head. Once that bridge is broken, well, that baked stuff can and will break off and go into the cylinders........... you do not want that to happen.

EDIT: The MAP sensor also senses air temp. If it goes bad, it generally defaults to 400f below zero which will cause it to run rich..... black smoke. A scan will tell you if the MAP is faulty.

 

[Jerry Freeman]

He doesn't have VCDS. He is an ASE master technician running a well-equipped professional shop and uses whatever diagnostic software would be standard in the business. I'm sure he can access any diagnostic trouble codes. I believe you are saying he should note the color of the smoke (for clues to too rich or too lean) and look at

1. Timing
2. Injection balance
3. MAP sensor

Anything else he should look for?

 

[STDOUBT]

More than a few "ASE master technicians" have destroyed these engines because they didn't take the time to learn their quirks.
Unless he has a hard number of miles that timing system has seen, replacing all those components is job #1.
This is like the first 3 commandments in the TDI Bible.
EDIT: of the three times I cleaned an intake, the most pleasant and quickest was scraping as much out as I could with metal implements, then using a carwash pressure washer to get the rest out.
Have your ASE guy read Andy's post above^

 

[TedDidIt]

the most pleasant and quickest was scraping as much out as I could with metal implements,

I know the burn out method is super fun, but from what I understand it could damage the flap bearings. I didn't do this on mine, but if you do... Be sure the flaps are secure on the shaft after, or totally removed. Then I guess you block up the place where it used to be, JB or whatever.

If you intend to keep EGR, don't burn. If you want to get clicks on a you tube, well have at it!!
good luck

 

[rbuddi422]

Yes sir, I'd just got done doing mine with homemade tools to scrape, then I'd used propane and burnt the remainder out, followed by more scraping. However, given the large amount of black nasty that comes from that, in hind site I wish I would've taken it to the machine shops hot tank. Hot tank would do a better job, leaving you less apt to ingest anything that might be hanging inside and loose.

Trust me, I have a wife that wanted to kill me during my intake cleaning episode, as all the light switches and door handles in the house were blackened doh! One tiny spec of that crap will do a number on your light colored carpets. Orange hand cleaner is essential.

 

[AndyBees]

The OP is inquiring for a friend who has a 99 New Beetle with an ALH engine.
The Intake doesn't have any flaps.
The EGR assembly should be removed before removing the Intake.
There are three bolts that hold the EGR Cooler/Heater on the back of the Intake. Remove those bolts and let the Cooler/Heater assembly flop over toward the firewall. Also, the exhaust tubes must be removed.

This being a New Beetle, that part of the firewall below the windshield will need to be removed. That will make the job easier.

I've done one burn out........... no more!

After scraping, I bolt on a cap with gasket where the EGR goes. Then, I lay the Intake so it will hold liquid. I fill it with Awesome and let it soak... repeat numerous times.

 

[Jerry Freeman]

Thanks, everyone for all this VERY helpful information. I will advise my friend to remove the intake and take it to a shop with an immersion hot tank. He certainly can do that and it seems to be the most straightforward way to go.

Your coaching about the importance of doing the timing belt, etc. as a priority is much needed support, as he wouldn't be likely to take my word for it without my being able to print and show him your explanations about why it's so important. That's extremely helpful. Thank you.

I will tell him that after consulting with you it looks like sludge in the intake is NOT likely to be a key reason for the smoking and poor performance. I will tell him you advise to note the color of the smoke (for clues to not enough air or too much fuel) and look at

1. Timing
2. Injection balance
3. MAP sensor

What else should he look for?

And again, thanks SO much for your help with this.

 

[mk3]

a plugged intake will make it have poor performance and can lead to smoking because not enough air gets in. My car had this situation many years ago.

 

[Jerry Freeman]

OK. I'll add "plugged intake" back to the troubleshooting list and tell him to open the EGR/ASV connection and inspect for sludge.

 

[wonneber]

Yes sir, I'd just got done doing mine with homemade tools to scrape, then I'd used propane and burnt the remainder out, followed by more scraping. However, given the large amount of black nasty that comes from that, in hind site I wish I would've taken it to the machine shops hot tank. Hot tank would do a better job, leaving you less apt to ingest anything that might be hanging inside and loose.

Trust me, I have a wife that wanted to kill me during my intake cleaning episode, as all the light switches and door handles in the house were blackened doh! One tiny spec of that crap will do a number on your light colored carpets. Orange hand cleaner is essential.

Guess you didn't close all the windows & doors?

 

[Jerry Freeman]

I think he's saying residue on his hands and clothing got onto whatever he touched in the house. An important danger to know about, I would say.