Hot Rod Drag Week with a 2000 TDI Bug

[COMP461]

Ok we are starting off late , very late

I’m a drag racer with extensive experience with magizine projects and extensive experience in diesels . I will get the little project car on Sunday . There are 5 weeks letf before I need to have this car at Hot Rod Magazines Drag Week, with its two big brother diesel powered Hot Rods , one a Chevy Duramax diesel powered Mustang and the other a Chevy Duramax powered 68 Z28 Camaro .


My last Drag Week venture was Project X diesel ., I ran this project at run Land Speed racing events , Hot Rod Drag week, for 3 years and NHRA National Events at Denver and Dallas . Project X diesel has a run of 37 magazine articles before putting it to bed . OK enough about me ,

I would like a little of everyone’s input .
The car is a 2000 VW TDI beetle with 200,000 miles
I’m going to grind up a cam, I have done over 1000 cam for other diesels
port the head ,
put on a straight exhaust
Use a dieselzilla tuner with custom times
Injectors, pump and Turbo upgrade from Industrial Injection
Strip all the weight possible off
Clutch
I will build a intake manifold
Mickey Thompson drag radials
Nitrous Express Progressive system
A 100 lbs Girl will drive
So give me a few pointers

oh an it need so run 12's

 

[COMP461]

here are some of the manifols we have built , and will be simular to the one I will design for the little Bug

 

[hatemi]

Hi. Wahat fueling mods are you using? Are the nozzles worthy of a drag car with NOS or just some regular off the shelf stuff? ARe you still using VE pump or do you plan on converting it to a inline pump of some sort? Whats your aim on the powerband. I mean how high will you rev it, and where do you want the max power to be.

For a drag car I can actually recomend one turbo beforehand. GT3267 with the smalest trim. You could also convert it to a smaler AR turbine housing. It will start to kick at around 3000rpm and after that its just a blast. EMPs will be lower than IMPs at least under 2.5bar of boost That combined with NOS your powerband would be from 2000 to 6000rpm

 

[Farfromovin]

I think you're on the right track already. Ported head, ground cam, more air, more fuel. Diesel basics right? Now, you didn't mention anything about the rods. Stock rods will start bending quick after 200 whp or so. Best of luck.

p.s. if you make a log intake similar to your picture for the ALH engine, you should consider making about 50 more of them. They'll sell like hotcakes!

 

[shadowmaker]

Fueling will be the hardest part with it. VE pump has its limitations and I wouldn't use it with a drag car. Turbo that hatemi suggested is good, but with adequate fueling + NOS you can get away with much bigger one. Gt37v or even wg-style HX40 super should do fine...

500hp @7000rpm with full power off the line.

 

[TDI_Convert]

Considering it's not a posi diff, any thoughts to changing it to have the power go thru both wheels? You might want to look at upgrading axles. Change rubber in the dogbone to stiffer poly. Auto or manual? The manuals aren't made to speed shift for any length of time, but if a manual, put a short shift kit on it. Custom intercooler and piping as well I assume.

You're going to be a busy boy for the next 5 weeks! How much time you giving yourself for testing to see where all the bugs are?

 

[COMP461]

Thinks the car is a standard transmission , so I know I will need a clutch , . I will not be allowing any NOS on this car at all we will use something much better.


If you look at the picture of my dragster , you will know why I don‘t use NOS , I helped to design the boost reference progressive controller that works so well on my other projects
If you want some of the intake manifold magic you can get them at ZZ custom Fabrications , here is their website , http://www.zzcustomfabrication.com/home.htm 940 337 4275 I have a few thoughts on what the manifold should look like , we will waterjet a flange , and possibly have round tube running up to a plenum . Not sure yet.

my friend, David Lots Daughter Samatha will be driving , she just earned her dragster lic a month a go .

this is my dragster manifold from ZZ at NX going thru flow testing

ok start pointing me in the right direction

and here is some more of Greg at ZZ's work

an the link to drag week rules



http://www.hotrod.com/dragweek/hrdp_0903w_2009_drag_week_rules_schedule/index.html

 

[hatemi]

The fueling available will determine the needed air. If youre going for 3-400hp then something like he351wgt could do the trick. It will be slow on low revs but you can keep your revs above 3500 at every time if you raise the limiter to 6k+.

 

[shadowmaker]

Thinks the car is a standard transmission , so I know I will need a clutch , . I will not be allowing any NOS on this car at all we will use something much better.


If you look at the picture of my dragster , you will know why I don‘t use NOS , I helped to design the boost reference progressive controller that works so well on my other projects
If you want some of the intake manifold magic you can get them at ZZ custom Fabrications , here is their website , http://www.zzcustomfabrication.com/home.htm 940 337 4275 I have a few thoughts on what the manifold should look like , we will waterjet a flange , and possibly have round tube running up to a plenum . Not sure yet.

I just got the impression from you saying that you are going to use NX Progressive System on it. Also your dragster is full of NX stickkers on it + you are also not using compounding. I thought it has to relay to some other oxidizing method to go with "low" boost pressure.

Without NOS or any other oxidizer it would be best to use vnt/vgt machanism as it allows bigger wheels inside the turbo. Gt32v, gt35v or the Holset hatemi suggested. That will give you wider power range and help take off from the line.

Your intake manifolds seems to flowing, but have you researched how evenly they distribute the air? As air is cooling things down, with high injection quantities you'd want your air to be distributed as good as it can. That's why some members here are building dual plenum intakes. Here's my take on the matter (2.5TDI 5cyl):

My desing has long/narrow runners as I'm focusing to low and middle rev area. Compound turbos hopefully take care of the high revs.

 

[mrchill]

If you want it to hold together. Build an engine first. Lots of internal mods will make more reliable power even on a drag car......in fact. Especially on a drag car.

 

[TDIMeister]

I'm not aware of a GT32V. Can you tell us the application it comes from?

 

[COMP461]

This will be a single turbo with Nitrous Oxide , NOS = Nitrous Oxide System .
We are shooting for 250 hp to start for this race , there is no time to go to the next level.
I believe that fuel is the easy part , Air in the limiting factor ,
Also what do these little Bugs weight and how much can you get off them

 

[Rub87]

what fueling mods did you have in mind?

if you have sufficient NOS, 250 hp will be quite easy if the engine is built strong enough.. then you get a big turbo, and fix the lack of bottomend torque with NOS, and when then turbo finally spools.... ^^

 

[shadowmaker]

I'm not aware of a GT32V. Can you tell us the application it comes from?

Sorry, I have no idea, but I have three of those in my shelve. One new and two used. It's the same medium core than gt35v and gt37v, so they are huge. Otherwise they would make an excellent high performance turbo for 1.9TDI IMO, or even 2.5TDI.

COMP461:

Just make big valve head with nice top oriented cam + use way too BIG turbo to go with it (as you can get away with it using nitrous). Use VE pump with 12mm or even 14mm head and lift pump + LARGE nozzles. Be sure that every cylinder gets even amount of nitrous and air with your custom intake. 250whp should be easy. CR reduction is necessary if you are running over 2,5bar boost (which you should do of course).

12mm pump should go up to ~350bhp when properly modded and you should get max power around 5500-6000rpm. 14mm should do even better (with less revs maybe).

Girdle + rods + temperature control here and there should keep the engine in one piece. Custom pistons maybe (though I'll be running original ACV pistons with my setup and they don't even have cooling gallery on them.)

 

[shizzler]

If you are really trying to run 12 secs at well over 100mph, you might want to consider aerodynamic mods as well. It will seriously be like having an extra 10 HP at the end of the track, and keep the car more stable.

A big wing / deck extension on the back might look stupid to some, but will actually lower drag considerably.

Look forward to seeing some timeslips in 5 weeks.

 

[COMP461]

so what do these cars weigh , and how much can be taken off ,

I need thought on the gear box , shifter spool, or limited slip .

CV joints

shocks and springs for best traction


Clutch

bumper structure

air bags

ABS

I am going to keep the AC for now ,






I have not even looked at the little car it is being driven in my direction as we speak, so what

pictures would be really great on any of the parts

 

[newguy]

Awesome project! As for the transmission - you will need the LSD. I put in a Peloquin unit and it was awesome in my Jetta.

http://www.peloquins.com/products_new.html

There is a guy here on the TDI club that put a huge wing on the back of his Bug and got phenominal MPG's. Ernie is his name.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/12/14/ernie-rogers-tweaks-a-vw-bug-to-get-65-70-mpg/

and

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/516/Fuel_Economy_2.pdf

So if you make the car more aero dynamic - it will go faster!

Good luck and I'm looking forward to seeing the results!

www.driven-1.com is my car blog...

 

[Spulen81]

They weigh about 3000lbs. Depends on how far you want go.. I would consider swapping the engine into an older generation VW, they are much lighter.

Easy stuff:
-seats are kinda heavy with side air bags, etc
-under carpet sound deadening.
-dash/airbags/hvac
-the doors and hatch are really heavy on these things.. you can gut them, etc.

You are going to want a diff.. if you break and axle with a spool its not fun and they are really hard to steer with slicks. The diff is more important for strength than traction off the line if you suspension is right. The factory diffs have rivets holding on the ring gear that like to fail and eject.

This place has a spool, diffs, etc.
http://www.aptuning.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=700&Itemid=14


I would get some decent adjustable coil overs so you can adjust the corner weights. You generally want MUCH stiff springs in the rear. I can't really offer too much on the suspension specifics, I've never raced a MK4 chassis VW before.

 

[chimmike]

+1 on getting ALL the sound deadening off the car. That'll be at least 150lbs, maybe more. remove swaybars (don't need those to go straight), seats, chamfer holes in areas like the pillars (you're going to have a full racing cage in it anyways, right?) remove all emissions components, stock fuel tank (for a fuel cell), lexan windows, etc.

be careful with throwing wings on there. Unless you're an aerodynamicist and have a wind tunnel, you could be playing with fire and making things worse.

 

[Diesel_Benz]

Can you please post some pictures of that GT32V?

 

[mojogoes]

Quote " I am going to keep the AC for now "

You can't be serious after mentioning all the suposid mods etc for this drag project and you want to keep the AC..............get real!!

 

[shadowmaker]

Can you please post some pictures of that GT32V?

Gt32v on the left, gt3571v on the right. You'd expect it to be the other way around.

 

[TDIMeister]

Well the compressor size is not of particular interest, since the designation GTxx refers to the frame size and therefore the size of the center section and turbine is more relevant. Ignoring the compressor, the one of the left does appear to have a smaller turbine. I want one

Shadow, can you post a pic of the identification plate? Does any of your turbos have a dual-entry turbine flange?

The compressor on the left simply has a larger A/R ratio. But the one on the right has a ported shroud.

 

[shadowmaker]

Well the compressor size is not of particular interest, since the designation GTxx refers to the frame size and therefore the size of the center section and turbine is more relevant. Ignoring the compressor, the one of the left does appear to have a smaller turbine. I want one

Shadow, can you post a pic of the identification plate? Does any of your turbos have a dual-entry turbine flange?

The compressor on the left simply has a larger A/R ratio. But the one on the right has a ported shroud.

None of these have identification plate.

The gt37v I'm going to use in my van has dual entry turbine, but it still isn't divided turbine housing...

Both have ported shrouds. The left one just has a better desing...

Here's a picture from behind.

Gt3571v ~20kg, gt32v ~25kg.

 

[Rub87]

what turbine exducer is on the gt35v? me want one too =), is this the same frame size as those gt30v's I hear nothing but good things from hybridized with a nice 67mm comp wheel or are these bigger?

 

[TDIMeister]

The turbine on the right appears to have a sliding ring instead of moving guide vanes for VTG. Nice! Unfortunately I have not been able to cross reference any GT32V or GT35V in any of Garrett's product listing for VGT turbines. It doesn't make any much sense, but they jump from a GT25V to a GT37V with seemingly nothing in between.

 

[shadowmaker]

This is getting OT... But that's just as I consider gt32v too small for a drag 1.9TDI with steroids.

Don't remember turbine exducer. Have to measure it.

Gt30v frame is smaller, WAY smaller...

On topic:

With gt35v you can go up to ~4PR and that's all the 12mm pump can deliver. You just need nitrous for take off...

If you haven't raced a FWD before, just make sure your rear stays high and front stays low. NO WEIGHT TRANSFER! you'll also want to avoid toe-out caused by torque.

 

[shadowmaker]

The turbine on the right appears to have a sliding ring instead of moving guide vanes for VTG. Nice! Unfortunately I have not been able to cross reference any GT32V or GT35V in any of Garrett's product listing for VGT turbines. It doesn't make any much sense, but they jump from a GT25V to a GT37V with seemingly nothing in between.

Both are "true" vnts. The left one is a more modern AVNT. Just like this gt42v.

 

[COMP461]

Wow, a lot of information.
The reason to keep the AC is this car has to make the drive 5 tracks 5 days 1500 miles . We get around 4 hours at each track to get a good run , and then it’s the average of the 5 days.
On suspension set up , your saying I need to lower the front , and make the read stiff , as in springs or shocks, I might use electric shocks on the rear then, to make it locked up solid on the launch
The car will be here in the morning

 

[VarmintSlayer]

They weigh about 3000lbs. Depends on how far you want go.. I would consider swapping the engine into an older generation VW, they are much lighter.

I like this idea of the older vw, how bought an old gasser thats set up for drag racing for a swap http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=807264

P.s Kerma's Evil Beetle is around 250hp on nos iirk, I don't think it is near the times your hoping for. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2332974&postcount=65

I'm sure your experience will help alot.

Good luck!