Hole in transmission casing

[hatrick32000]

Hello everyone. I hope I can find some advice on here regarding my serious issue besides the emissions nonsense. I will try and keep my story short.

A year and a half ago I purchased a 2010 jetta tdi with 50k miles on it. Two days after I bought it I heard the infamous "marbles in a can" type noise coming from my engine. After doing a quick research, I figured out that it was my flywheel going bad. The dealership agreed to fix it for me free of charge. So everything was working fine until recently I started hearing sort of a "hollow" type noise when starting my car or almost like an exhaust leak sound. I was in denial and figured all diesels are a little rough when starting. I drove the car all the way to Maine last week from CT and drive it 60 miles a day with no problems. Last Tuesday I drove the car to work, drove it home, drove it to the gym, then went to start it leaving the gym and it just made a crazy howling type noise but wouldn't turn over. So then I tow it to the dealer and this is what they found underneath my car.






Now I am not too familiar with the DSG transmission with the DMF setup, but I find it hard to believe that I can have a gaping hole like that in my transmission and be able to drive it like that for however long it was like that for. I never noticed any transmission fluid and the dealer said that the reason my transmission failed was because I lost fluid. Again I'm a NEWB when it comes to transmissions, but the tranny fluid isn't in the location where the flywheel is located is it? I'm not sure exactly where that hole is in relation to the flywheel though. I tried to explain to them that the car was working fine and all of a sudden it just wouldn't start. Did something happen to the starter possibly? I did not hit anything or bottom out, which was what they told me happened. I would have to jump the car on to a piece of rebar to make a perfect hole like that. I researched a lot and found other people who had one of the springs in their flywheels go bad and shoot right through the casing similar to my situation. Any help/advice is appreciated. I was quoted $5500 to fix this when my car is probably only worth about $7000 now with the emissions scandal going on.

 

[meerschm]

That looks like a new hole

Where was that little chunk?



the fly wheel is at the other end of the DSG (next to the engine)

the DSG has a shaft that always rotates with the engine speed (give or take the angle the DMF adjusts) so I suspect a bearing or two finally gave up the ghost, which is why you could not start it.


At this point, you can look for a used DSG. might save some $$.

 

[hatrick32000]

They didn't say where that piece came from. It almost looks like old JB Weld or something. I just cant see how something kicked up from the road and made such a neat hole like that. I guess anything is possible though. Does anyone know the best place to pick up a used transmission? I do not want to go through ebay if I can help it

 

[wilcharl]

I am not advocating a half-arse repair but, considering the DSG is basically condemned anyways, I would try JB Weld. When I was 16 I took my car to Pep Boys and had them replace my water pump. Somehow they cracked the flange where the water neck attaches to the head. They of course denied it and being 16 and young did not pursue it. I made a repair with JB weld. That was 19 years ago... (I still have the car) Not a cure all but I don't think in this case it would hurt.

 

[hatrick32000]

I'm so fed up with VW right now I wish it were that easy because I would somehow patch the hole, bring it to them and trade it in, but the car wont even start and that hole is in the bell housing no? Transmission fluid shouldn't be there. I almost think the residue surrounding the hole was from water getting in there then falling back out. I could be wrong though

 

[meerschm]

no

the housing around the DMF is on the other side of the DSG, where it connects to the engine.

http://www.natef.org/NATEF/media/NATEFMedia/VW%20Files/DSG-SSP.pdf

is more than you want to see, probably

 

[turbobrick240]

Looks to me like a fresh break from the inside out. I'm surprised you didn't notice it immediately. You probably destroyed the transaxle by running it dry, but it might be worth patching and refilling with cheap atf and see what happens.

 

[meerschm]

could be reading too much, but it looks to me like it was leaking for a while, and perhaps the last bit broke at the end. bright spot on the break . (between 3 and 4 o'clock on the photos)

that dark stain on the LCA looks like it has been there for a while.

(of course, it could be from an older oil leak if that happened.)

 

[hatrick32000]

I know there is probably no way this is possible and this question is probably really dumb, but since the car drove fine right up until it didn't start, do you think if I temporarily plug the hole and put more fluid in the car that it will start? I read online about how automatic transmissions wont start if the transmission has no fluid. That seems ridiculous, but I did read it somewhere.

 

[turbobrick240]

I know there is probably no way this is possible and this question is probably really dumb, but since the car drove fine right up until it didn't start, do you think if I temporarily plug the hole and put more fluid in the car that it will start? I read online about how automatic transmissions wont start if the transmission has no fluid. That seems ridiculous, but I did read it somewhere.

Yes, I would try that. You really can't hurt anything at this point. Oth, if I was going on long road trips etc., I wouldn't want a questionable trans. It looks to me like an outward break, but if the fragment was inside the trans. , that would seem to indicate otherwise. If it was an outward break, and the fragment was laying in the splash pan, your trans. is almost certainly toast and not worth the effort.

 

[turbobrick240]

Imo, your best bet is a salvage yard trans., and an indie mechanic. I see one on ebay for $650 obo.

 

[meerschm]

price starters before you try

 

[hatrick32000]

I'm almost thinking my starter went. The car was still able to go into park and neutral. If my tranny blew up, wouldn't that not be possible? At this point i mine as well plug the hole and fill the car up with a little transmission fluid just for fun. Like i said the car drove fine right up until i parked it. Could i have caused that much damage just by trying to turn the car on? I drove the car 30 miles right before i parked it and it was 100% fine and i didn't see any transmission fluid pouring out. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[engineered2win]

I'm almost thinking my starter went. The car was still able to go into park and neutral. If my tranny blew up, wouldn't that not be possible? At this point i mine as well plug the hole and fill the car up with a little transmission fluid just for fun. Like i said the car drove fine right up until i parked it. Could i have caused that much damage just by trying to turn the car on? I drove the car 30 miles right before i parked it and it was 100% fine and i didn't see any transmission fluid pouring out. It just doesn't make sense.

If your transmission input shaft is seized, you won't be able to start the engine. The trans could very well be in neutral, but it doesn't matter if the bearings or oil pump seized from lack of lubrication/cooling. Also you would have seen damage to the plastic undertray had you hit something sizable enough to crack the case.

 

[wilcharl]

Make sure it's not tranny fluid and actual Dsg juice!!

 

[Conrad -JSW]

What about the belly pan? Was there a hole in that was well?

 

[cobra390t]

hatrick32000 WHat you might be expierencing is Murphy law

When one thing goes wrong it all goes wrong , You could be right about the Starter went out and steering you in the DSG fail direction .



If it was me i would test the starter 1st , Then for insurance i would drain the DSG and measure how much fluid you got there . Worse case you are loosing $120 in DSG fluid and filter .

Now if the amount came out the DSG close to the same amount should go back in then you are golden , Refill it with fresh fluid , JB wild and chase your other starting problem .

Hack you drove it across states and over 60 miles trips , I am sure you would noticed fluid all over your drive way and on the sides of you car splashed with ATF .


You need to find a local VW guru or some one to help , I will be trying all my op before i droop either $5500 on DSG or even used one .

 

[cobra390t]

OOOH And if you look real close @ your 1st Pic where you took the PIC under the CAR if it was Indeed an ATF fluid your car wont be that clean

 

[turbobrick240]

Captain bold, did you see the hole in hattricks tranny? I think that just might be the problem! He doesn't need to drain anything, it drained itself. Chasing after starters is a total waste of time. Unfortunately, he is going to need a new/used transmission.

 

[meerschm]

The only reason I suggested pricing starters was a caution if he tries to patch and fill the DSG.

(my post was kind of terse, since I dropped a hammer on my index finger and it was a tad hard to type last night)

if it did not start, and was squealing at the last attempt, my guess is it would be shot city.

if an internal something (fluid pump, bearing....) in the DSG connected to the input shaft is shot, further playing with it could cost a new starter in addition to the DSG.

 

[jpulls11]

They didn't say where that piece came from. It almost looks like old JB Weld or something. I just cant see how something kicked up from the road and made such a neat hole like that. I guess anything is possible though. Does anyone know the best place to pick up a used transmission? I do not want to go through ebay if I can help it

Last I remember Bristol had a Euro junk yard, you could look it up online and see what they have, the name escapes me or i would post it. Best of luck!

 

[hatrick32000]

Thanks guys. One of these weekends when I get time I'm going to test the starter first. If that is shot in going to shove a rag in the hole and fill with dsg fluid . I'm hoping I get at least some luck

 

[turbobrick240]

I don't think a rag stuffed in the hole will be very effective. Good luck!

 

[hatrick32000]

I was kidding! Haha. Bad joke. I'm wondering if VW has to buy back these cars that they would even take mine the way it is.

 

[meerschm]

it would be interesting to see if that small chunk is some kind of JB weld or similar, perhaps from the DMF replacement or other prior maintenance activity. (someone caused the hole, fixed it, and filled the DSG, perhaps to spec, perhaps not)

I want to guess from the photos you had the plastic under-cover installed. and from lack of response, probably no impact damage evident through the plastic.

not sure this helps your situation in any way.

if the folks who did it, hid it, not sure why they would fess up at this stage.

I do not think there is much chance of any VW buy back helping you out.

there also was a recall of some DSGs early on for a bearing which was wearing.

might be worth a discussion at the local dealer to see if there was a recall on your car, and if so, and it was never put in, and somehow related to this failure, if they might cut you some slack related to dealer prices. kind of a long shot.

 

[Little Joe]

Where is the oil trail? How could that piece be there and no sign of major oil splatter. It is not the bellhousing....its on other side. If you drove far enough to not see any oil trail and (possibly rain washed underside of car) you were lucky to get as far as you did BUT the tranny is garbage. Complete good used replacement is best bet $ wise.

You could try your insurance company through road hazard/ comprehensive coverage. Good lluck

 

[hatrick32000]

The car actually did not have the belly pan. The dealer neglected to tell me that. I haven't even looked under the car yet but wouldn't the tranny fluid have been all over the place?

 

[cobra390t]

The car actually did not have the belly pan. The dealer neglected to tell me that. I haven't even looked under the car yet but wouldn't the tranny fluid have been all over the place?

off course it would been all over the place , Under the car PIC looks pretty darn clean for a Tranny that lost all it's Fluid

 

[meerschm]

if you look at the right side of the car, back (down in the photo) from the hole in the dsg, there is plenty of evidence of an oily fluid leak,

look at the rear LCA bracket, and compare side to side.

compare right and left side of the subframe, and the bracket that is between the subframe and the steel body parts.

look at the indent around the NOX cat, and the right side of the photo is clearly much darker than the left side.

 

[turbobrick240]

Yeah, the evidence of leaking fluid is pretty easily apparent to me. That tranny is toast.