High mileage Buyback

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

not to mention the engines likely see less revolutions per lifetime, compared to a gas vehicle driven the same

Thanks for the info

Question about the much higher compression ratio on diesel vs gassers?

How does the higher ratio affect the life of engines?

 

[MonsterTDI09]

Another consideration why I am replacing with a gasser......diesels aren't what they used to be.. Now we have to worry about DPFs cracking, HPFP failures, dead turbos, Adblue heaters.......all expensive repairs that are not all easy DIY projects. Diesels and associated emissions stuff has gotten too complicated and fragile.

It's still cheaper to fix them. Than to buy a new car. I have 110k without any problems.The DMF is just starting to rattle that's it.

 

[TMartin]

I have 330,000 miles on my 2010 JSW, so I am way off the end of the mileage penalty chart. VW is willing to give me $9500 for it. Just for laughs and giggles I had a dealer tell me what he'd value it as a trade-in. He said I'd be lucky to get $2000. I consider VW's offer to be more than fair, but I keep going back and forth over whether I want to sell it or keep it. I don't see any other cars out there right now that appeal to me.

 

[ranger pete]

Mileage is just one factor in the remaining life of a car. Age, maintenance and type of miles driven is just as important. I drive a lot for work. The large majority of this is interstate and rural state hiway. I drive a rental (company's choice). If I could drive my own and take the mileage expense, I would likely get a 6 speed tdi. In 4 years I would have a 4 year old car with over 200K miles. I am certain the level of wear would be less than say a 6 year old tdi with 80K owned by someone with a 15 mile commute into Boston every day.

I guess what I am saying is, if you have a high mileage, but young TDI that has been well maintained, you are likely better off keeping it. If you have a 7 year old TDI with 70K hard miles and in not the greatest shape, cosmetically, you ought to take the money and run.

 

[GoFaster]

I have 330,000 miles on my 2010 JSW, so I am way off the end of the mileage penalty chart. VW is willing to give me $9500 for it. Just for laughs and giggles I had a dealer tell me what he'd value it as a trade-in. He said I'd be lucky to get $2000. I consider VW's offer to be more than fair, but I keep going back and forth over whether I want to sell it or keep it. I don't see any other cars out there right now that appeal to me.

You can still get almost another 2 years out of the car before the end of the buyback period, if you still trust driving it that long!

Personally, for something with that much mileage on it, I would take VW's offer and run, and schedule the buyback for just before you figure the next major maintenance will be needed.

I completely understand the "what to replace it with" dilemma. But ... If you like the VW wagon, the current one with the 1.8 TSI gas engine is still a pretty fuel-efficient choice and it drives about the same as what you have. If you insist on diesel and you want something wagon-ish not too much bigger, hang in there until you see what the upcoming Chevy Equinox is like. If you insist on manual transmission then your choices are limited ... but the current Golf wagon 1.8 TSI is one.

 

[HBarlow]

Thanks for the info

Question about the much higher compression ratio on diesel vs gassers?

How does the higher ratio affect the life of engines?

Not at all because diesel engines are designed with more robust components to handle the stresses. I wonder if that is the case with all the gas engines that suddenly have turbochargers. Are they new or redesigned engines to handle the additional bearing load and stress of a turbocharger - or just the same old engines with a turbo added?

 

[GoFaster]

You aren't going to find an engine from any manufacturer that did not pass that manufacturer's durability-testing - and that includes some torture testing that most owners would never do to their own cars.

The VW EA888 turbo gas engines in all the current (e.g. Golf Mk7) models were designed to be turbocharged from the outset.

If you go back in time to the origins of VW's four-cylinder gasoline and diesel engines ... the gas and diesel engines used the same block castings. This was not a failure, because those were designed to be strong enough to be diesel engines from the outset. The VW "2.slow" gas engine is well known to be durable ... when the assembly plant didn't screw up by installing piston rings upside down. (some of them had a reputation for being oil-burners because of this)

It's rare nowadays for internal major mechanical failures to happen "on their own" and not be because of things like: owners neglecting oil changes, owners never checking the oil level, owners neglecting the oil-pressure warning and continuing to drive until the engine stops with a rod out the side of the block, missed shift / over-revving (the rev limiter will be of no help if the owner selects 2nd gear at highway speed and the manual transmission back-drives the engine at that speed), neglecting to change the timing belt (where fitted), etc.

Of course, engineering and manufacturing screw-ups can and do happen - but these are rarely dependent on whether the engine is a gasoline or diesel engine. A modern diesel engine with compliant emission controls has a lot more stuff going on around the engine, each with their own potential failure points ...

Many, many cars go to the scrap heap these days with fully functional engines in them. In my part of the world, it's usually rusted out underneath. Actually a lot of the time the basics of the car are still OK, but the broken air conditioning, worn out brakes, worn out tires, inoperative power window, dull paint etc on a 15 year old car add up to a repair cost that is more than the car is worth and no one wants to buy the car with those things wrong with it, so off to the junk pile it goes ... still driveabile and functional, but worthless.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

You aren't going to find an engine from any manufacturer that did not pass that manufacturer's durability-testing - and that includes some torture testing that most owners would never do to their own cars.

The VW EA888 turbo gas engines in all the current (e.g. Golf Mk7) models were designed to be turbocharged from the outset.

If you go back in time to the origins of VW's four-cylinder gasoline and diesel engines ... the gas and diesel engines used the same block castings. This was not a failure, because those were designed to be strong enough to be diesel engines from the outset. The VW "2.slow" gas engine is well known to be durable ... when the assembly plant didn't screw up by installing piston rings upside down. (some of them had a reputation for being oil-burners because of this)

It's rare nowadays for internal major mechanical failures to happen "on their own" and not be because of things like: owners neglecting oil changes, owners never checking the oil level, owners neglecting the oil-pressure warning and continuing to drive until the engine stops with a rod out the side of the block, missed shift / over-revving (the rev limiter will be of no help if the owner selects 2nd gear at highway speed and the manual transmission back-drives the engine at that speed), neglecting to change the timing belt (where fitted), etc.

Of course, engineering and manufacturing screw-ups can and do happen - but these are rarely dependent on whether the engine is a gasoline or diesel engine. A modern diesel engine with compliant emission controls has a lot more stuff going on around the engine, each with their own potential failure points ...

Many, many cars go to the scrap heap these days with fully functional engines in them. In my part of the world, it's usually rusted out underneath. Actually a lot of the time the basics of the car are still OK, but the broken air conditioning, worn out brakes, worn out tires, inoperative power window, dull paint etc on a 15 year old car add up to a repair cost that is more than the car is worth and no one wants to buy the car with those things wrong with it, so off to the junk pile it goes ... still driveabile and functional, but worthless.

From the middle of the 4th paragragh I was laughing so hard, the tears in my eyes and head-belly moving uncontrollably up and down so hard I could not read the next word. Took me 3-4 attempts to finish. the post.

Thanks, I needed that

 

[TMartin]

GoFaster, thanks for your input. I'm aware of the coming Equinox and I'm certainly aware of the things that may possibly go wrong. The one big part of the equation is the fact that I have no car payment. I don't see anything available in the $9500-$11000 range that I want. The car has been pretty good to me. The engine runs strong, the manual trans. is bulletproof in my opinion. Many of the usual problem parts have either been replaced, upgraded or eliminated. If I keep it I'll probably upgrade the HPFP. It's been so dependable for the last year or so, I'm tempted to try for half a million miles.

 

[tarasin921]

Your car is devalued by excessive miles. That's not VW's problem.

VW is simply paying you what the car was worth in September of 2015 plus additional compensation.

No, they're not. In September 2015, my car had 70k miles on it. Now it has 110k. I'm taking a hit for the 40,000 miles I drove over the past year.

I get that if the whole scandal hadn't happened, I wouldn't make out as well if I sold the car privately or even on a trade. But I never planned to sell the car or trade it. I was going to drive it until my corporate reimbursement termed (5 year life cycle ending in 2018) and then have my kids drive it til they get out of college. I wouldn't have a problem with the car having little to no value at that point because it would be pushing 300k miles and have served its purpose.

 

[jhinsc]

I am going to participate in the buyback but I am kind of discouraged they are penalizing me so much for driving it. I have a 2012 Jetta sedan with 193k miles on it and the mileage "penalty" is killing me but I will still probably go for the buyback... Others in similar shape???

Are you saying you're discouraged for the fact you have high miles which directly impacts value, or just bummed because you're not getting as much as others with much lower miles? You certainly received benefit from the high fuel mileage over the 193k miles - look at how much you saved on fuel costs versus a gas model. Besides longevity, isn't it a factor of why you bought a TDI? I'm sure you saved a substantial amount.

 

[Blue_Hen_TDI]

This is so not true. Gasoline engines may not last as long as diesels, but properly maintained they'll get close. 300K+ miles is easy in a gasser.
And all the other stuff wears out just as fast in a diesel as a gasser. Brakes, bushings, suspension, interior...it all ages.

Yeah, I was about to say the same thing. You can't compare the best diesel case to the worst gas case and lend credibility to your argument.

100K miles is not some lofty goal for a gasoline-powered vehicle; maybe for a Detroit product in the late 70s/early 80s. But yeah, it's 2016. LOL

 

[Scratcher]

It used to be the case that Diesel engines lasted longer than Gasoline but that gap has become almost closed in recent years with superior engineering and materials being used in engine construction. The only real world advantage to owning a diesel is, oranges for oranges, MPG returns; but even that gap is closing due to the EPA getting their teeth into diesel. I've been a diesel freak my whole driving life but since moving to the US from the UK, where almost every domestic use vehicle is available as a diesel variant, it has become glaringly obvious that environmentalists have won the day in America, with their increasing pressure on diesel ownership. Once the war on diesel is won it won't be long before vehicle manufacturers will be forced to make more 4 cylinder low CC engines. Its already started with the little Fiats, Nissans, Minis and Smart cars we are seeing running around more.

 

[k1xv]

No, they're not. In September 2015, my car had 70k miles on it. Now it has 110k. I'm taking a hit for the 40,000 miles I drove over the past year.

I get that if the whole scandal hadn't happened, I wouldn't make out as well if I sold the car privately or even on a trade. But I never planned to sell the car or trade it. I was going to drive it until my corporate reimbursement termed (5 year life cycle ending in 2018) and then have my kids drive it til they get out of college. I wouldn't have a problem with the car having little to no value at that point because it would be pushing 300k miles and have served its purpose.

So, never register to have your car fixed or bought back, stick to your original plan, and your expectations would be fully realized.

Problem solved!!!

 

[thorpatterson_ritz]

why should mileage have anything to do with buy back! They should be scrapping these cars not reselling them to another 3rd world country. And why should we a consumers back the penalty for mileage. This thing has dragged out so long any semi travel is going to go over limit of 12,000 per year.

Other thing is VWclaims gives no explanation in their offer as why amount is less then value first quoted. Mine is $1,500 less and there is no way to figure out why as far as I can figure. Not even looking at mileage adjustment table as it doesn't add up.

This whole thing is a farce and we customers got the short end.

 

[DanB36]

why should mileage have anything to do with buy back!

Because mileage affects value. It's really pretty simple, and you know that already.

They should be scrapping these cars not reselling them to another 3rd world country.

They can't sell them anywhere (third-world country or otherwise) without fixing them.

 

[k1xv]

Gee, I didn't see it as a penalty. I got extra value added on for having a lower than average odometer reading for my year car.

Why do you guys who drove the wheels off your car want to take my low mileage bonus away from me? What a bunch of socialists!!!

 

[fastpete]

Mines a 13 Jetta 145K looks like im getting 15,000 total im pretty happy.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

why should mileage have anything to do with buy back! They should be scrapping these cars not reselling them to another 3rd world country. And why should we a consumers back the penalty for mileage. This thing has dragged out so long any semi travel is going to go over limit of 12,000 per year.

Other thing is VWclaims gives no explanation in their offer as why amount is less then value first quoted. Mine is $1,500 less and there is no way to figure out why as far as I can figure. Not even looking at mileage adjustment table as it doesn't add up.

This whole thing is a farce and we customers got the short end.

much as I enjoy my loath of vw....

I will get a 100 % free ride for 3 + years in the buy back of $25,275.53

and that induces

cost of purchase
Delivery from out of state dealer
all TT&L for 3 or 4 years
all maintenance for 3+ years
all fuel for 3+ years (I do not drive much)
That is if I do not WRECK it or it is stolen
and a little left over.

Weather and my decrepit body willing, tomorrow I am going to fill it and drive to Mom's house

 

[HBarlow]

You aren't going to find an engine from any manufacturer that did not pass that manufacturer's durability-testing - and that includes some torture testing that most owners would never do to their own cars.

The VW EA888 turbo gas engines in all the current (e.g. Golf Mk7) models were designed to be turbocharged from the outset.

If you go back in time to the origins of VW's four-cylinder gasoline and diesel engines ... the gas and diesel engines used the same block castings. This was not a failure, because those were designed to be strong enough to be diesel engines from the outset. The VW "2.slow" gas engine is well known to be durable ... when the assembly plant didn't screw up by installing piston rings upside down. (some of them had a reputation for being oil-burners because of this)

It's rare nowadays for internal major mechanical failures to happen "on their own" and not be because of things like: owners neglecting oil changes, owners never checking the oil level, owners neglecting the oil-pressure warning and continuing to drive until the engine stops with a rod out the side of the block, missed shift / over-revving (the rev limiter will be of no help if the owner selects 2nd gear at highway speed and the manual transmission back-drives the engine at that speed), neglecting to change the timing belt (where fitted), etc.

Of course, engineering and manufacturing screw-ups can and do happen - but these are rarely dependent on whether the engine is a gasoline or diesel engine. A modern diesel engine with compliant emission controls has a lot more stuff going on around the engine, each with their own potential failure points ...

Many, many cars go to the scrap heap these days with fully functional engines in them. In my part of the world, it's usually rusted out underneath. Actually a lot of the time the basics of the car are still OK, but the broken air conditioning, worn out brakes, worn out tires, inoperative power window, dull paint etc on a 15 year old car add up to a repair cost that is more than the car is worth and no one wants to buy the car with those things wrong with it, so off to the junk pile it goes ... still driveabile and functional, but worthless.

It is certainly true that auto manufacturers perform durability testing on their cars prior to release but typically they test to the warranty period because the manufacturer underwrites the cost of repairs while the warranty is in effect. New cars usually have a 36 month and/or 36,000 mile warranty. That's not much durability.

VW's family of cars has about the same warranty but most us know from experience that our TDI engines routinely run 200,000 miles with only routine maintenance as long as we use clean diesel fuel. Yes, there are a few anomalies to that record but I remain skeptical about the cause of HPFP failures.

Are modern turbocharged gasoline engines as durable? I don't know.

 

[Blue_Hen_TDI]

Powertrain warranty on VW vehicles is 5 years/60,000 miles.

Regarding modern turbocharged gasoline engines, I have owned two: 2014 Focus ST and 2016 VW GTI. No issues of note with either, powertrain-wise (meat and potatoes type stuff). I did have a wiring harness recall on the ST and I had an ignition coil go bad on the GTI (which I replaced in my driveway for $30 - F going to a dealer), but those were both electrical rather than metal hardware issues. The first gen Ecoboost 2.0 and the VW EA888 seem to both be solid turbo gas engines.

The earliest revision IHI IS20 turbo on the Mk7 GTI was known to have some failures that appear to have gone away for the most part with subsequent revisions. VW was very good about replacing the early failures under warranty, even in some cases on heavily modified cars.

One thing that does seem to be an issue with all GDI engines is carbon fouling. Catch cans and periodic cleaning (walnut blasting, etc) seem to be the remedy there. Hell, BMWs foul so badly that they were the walnut blasting pioneers for everyone else, and have made the service more common and less expensive.

 

[GoFaster]

Durability testing is done for waaaaay longer than the bumper to bumper warranty period. If nothing else, they have to meet the emissions control durability requirements and that's at least 120,000 miles and in some cases 150,000.

Do some research, please. The manufacturers do torture testing that you wouldn't believe. The process is not perfect; some faults creep through when there are circumstances that were not foreseen (e.g. the intercooler freezing situation on the commonrail TDI). But there is no manufacturer that is intentionally building engines that fall apart the day after warranty expires. Much more common is the car in the junkyard with a perfectly functional engine that no one wants.

 

[bizzle]

Great, modern gasoline engines can last a long time. That has nothing to do with the original point I made.

The fact of the matter is the used market (we are talking about "book" values since that's what VW used) does not accurately reflect high-mileage diesel vehicles' valuation. In fact, this isn't even a diesel vs. gasoline issue. Those methods don't value *any* niche market vehicle accurately because of how those values are derived.

 

[atomicfront]

It is certainly true that auto manufacturers perform durability testing on their cars prior to release but typically they test to the warranty period because the manufacturer underwrites the cost of repairs while the warranty is in effect. New cars usually have a 36 month and/or 36,000 mile warranty. That's not much durability.

VW's family of cars has about the same warranty but most us know from experience that our TDI engines routinely run 200,000 miles with only routine maintenance as long as we use clean diesel fuel. Yes, there are a few anomalies to that record but I remain skeptical about the cause of HPFP failures.

Are modern turbocharged gasoline engines as durable? I don't know.

I am sure they test for more than 36k miles. You don't want all your cars failing at 40k miles. You wouldn't be in business that long if they did. And many cars are waranteed for long than 36k miles. My BMW is 4 years 60k miles. And tons of BMW's end up being CPO to 100k. I don't know of too many people's cars failing before 100k no matter what the brand.

 

[TDIinMA]

I put about 124K miles on my 2011 JSW in a little over 6 years.

VWGoA is now offering me about $16,300 for my troubles.

Can't complain.

 

[MonsterTDI09]

I put about 124K miles on my 2011 JSW in a little over 6 years.

VWGoA is now offering me about $16,300 for my troubles.

Can't complain.

They are offering you $5,100. To sell your trouble free car.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

Durability testing is done for waaaaay longer than the bumper to bumper warranty period. If nothing else, they have to meet the emissions control durability requirements and that's at least 120,000 miles and in some cases 150,000.

Do some research, please. The manufacturers do torture testing that you wouldn't believe. The process is not perfect; some faults creep through when there are circumstances that were not foreseen (e.g. the intercooler freezing situation on the commonrail TDI). But there is no manufacturer that is intentionally building engines that fall apart the day after warranty expires. Much more common is the car in the junkyard with a perfectly functional engine that no one wants.

emission control is a gov load of stuff.

yes, some persons doggie road kill their vehicle with tens of thousands of miles left in the drive train

which brings us back to the buy back with no "condition" CONDITIONS on the buy back amount --

 

[VeeDubTDI]

They are offering you $5,100. To sell your trouble free car.

They're actually offering him $5,682 + clean NADA value as of 14 months ago, minus $425 for mileage, minus $140 for having a manual transmission. If he let them take it today, his total payment would be $15,767 to sell or $5,117 to fix.

(According to the information I entered into the buyback calculator based on what I know about his car.)

 

[MonsterTDI09]

They're actually offering him $5,682 + clean NADA value as of 14 months ago, minus $425 for mileage, minus $140 for having a manual transmission. If he let them take it today, his total payment would be $15,767 to sell or $5,117 to fix.

(According to the information I entered into the buyback calculator based on what I know about his car.)

My restitution payment is $5,100. Blue book valve is 8,725

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

My restitution payment is $5,100. Blue book valve is 8,725

Question please

Blue book dealer retail?
Blue Book Trade value?
Blue Book private sale?