Help with Runaway Diesel Engine and Leaky Turbo

[jcroon]

I recently found out that my 2002 VW Golf TDI is leaking oil into the engine via the turbo. The mechanic says that there's no repair - only replacement of the turbo.

The issue is that the leaky turbo can cause a 'runaway engine' effect which occurs when the engine suddenly increases in rpm and draws the engine oil out of the turbo seals and feeds off that oil, raising the rpm, drawing even more oil out. Once the runaway gets started, the feedback cycle increases until you shut the engine off by cutting fuel or air or all the engine is burned up and the engine seizes. (more info if interested: http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/stop-runaway-diesel-engine-how-to.htm)

So basically, it sounds like you're suddenly strapped to a rocket that you can't stop.

My question is: do I trade in my VW (190,000 miles) and get $2000 for it or risk driving it? Is there any way to know how long I have before the runaway would occur? Has anyone encountered a runaway before - if so, how hard is it to stop?

Any help very much appreciated!

 

[csstevej]

First off welcome to the club!
Second thing is how much oil are we talking about, wet IC pipe or cups of oil?
Are you using quite abit of oil?
These turbos do leak.

Search for runaways if you want more info. Is your car an auto or manual? If its a manual put the car in 5 th gear and dump the clutch and step on the brake to stall it AND DO NOT ATTEMPT TO START IT AGAIN till problem resolved and IC cleaned of oil, also turn the key off but do not remove the key so your steering wheel doesn't lock if this occurs while driving.
If its an auto only chance is to shut the car off and hope the anti shudder valve chokes of the air supply quickly.

Unless the turbo fails suddenly I would think that you would start to notice your oil consumption increasing.
Some turbos fail early possible due to incorrect oil, low oil pressure, others have 300xxx plus miles on them.

 

[Sbeghan]

Where in NC are you located?

 

[richmondvatdi]

My understanding, as cssteve says, is a runaway requires two issues simultaneously:
1. enough oil through the turbo seals to run the engine and
2. an anti-shudder valve that does not work.

Which begs the question: Is there a quick way to (regularly) test the anti-shudder valve to be sure it is functioning? Does the fact that the engines shuts off when you turn the ignition off tell you the a/s is working?

 

[csstevej]

My understanding, as cssteve says, is a runaway requires two issues simultaneously:
1. enough oil through the turbo seals to run the engine and
2. an anti-shudder valve that does not work.
Which begs the question: Is there a quick way to (regularly) test the anti-shudder valve to be sure it is functioning? Does the fact that the engines shuts off when you turn the ignition off tell you the a/s is working?

Not quite true, you only need excessive amount of oil leaking past turbo seals for the engine to be self sustaining, no fuel is needed at this point engine is strictly running on engine oil and is uncontrolled/ungoverened.

Some people don't have ASV, they removed the EGR valve and have put in a race pipe for better airflow.

The ASV makes the shutdown......less shaky for the lack of a better word.....engine won't shudder as much when the key is turned off.
I believe it wasn't designed to be used as a runnaway preventer, Rember the ASV is only closed for a couple of seconds when the key is turneed off then it opens again.

 

[csstevej]

As far as testing the ASV you can get a mityvac and hook the hose to it and pull a vacuum and make sure it moves smoothly and hold a vacuum. Also when you turn the key off you don't get excessive shudder. Have someone turn the key off while you are watching and see the time it actual stays closed.

 

[jcroon]

Wow - thanks for the responses! I've been out all afternoon looking at new cars (like the new Golf TDI...), but I would much prefer to not have to shell out the $25k on a new one.

There were a few questions...

I'm in Durham NC.

It's an automatic 2002 Golf TDI.

I haven't actually looked to see how much oil is leaking, but I've only had to top it off with extra oil once in between oil changes (albeit, it was really low).

Is the rate at which the oil level decreases an indicator of how close the turbo is to breaking or only an indicator of the decay in the seal? What's a bad rate?

Thanks -
James

 

[Nutsnbolts]

If you're consuming 1 quart of oil every 5000 miles, then it's still fine.

Changing the turbo is far less expensive than getting a new car. It would be the route that I would go, provided the transmission is still in good operating condition, or has been replaced already. Do a search for 01M (that's your transmission) failures...

-Rich

 

[Sbeghan]

I am in Durham too, contact me and I'll take a look at the car for you. I would recommend keeping the car and simply changing out the turbo (if that's what's wrong).

 

[KLXD]

If you do decide to go new I'm pretty sure you can do better than $2k even if it has a bad TC.

 

[Sbeghan]

If you do decide to go new I'm pretty sure you can do better than $2k even if it has a bad TC.

Ahhh, don't tell him that. I was going to buy it off of him.

 

[moterhead]

Turbo is about 1000 dollars plus labor id replace itvur tdi is just getting broke in my car has leaking turbo seals if it runs away and its a 5 speed pull the ebrake and hold the brakes it will stall out

 

[motorhead2]

I owned and drove a 1980 VW Dasher diesel wagon for 19 years. I had run-away issues with the 1.5ltr diesel. It usually happened after pulling a long grade. The engine only had 48hp stock and when it started to run away it felt like it gained another 25hp.
THE ONLY WAY TO STOP A RUN AWAY was to put the brakes on and slow the car down to a point where it would stop running on its own oil.
The problem that started mine to run away was excessive blow by. This was exacerbated by the fact that the 1.5 diesel had a small crankcase venting passage that ran from the block through the head. They kind of fixed it with the 1.6 by enlarging the vent passage.
Have you looked at a used turbo for your car?

 

[jcroon]

So, I take it that you all think I'm crazy for considering unloading a 190k TDI with only a leaky turbo.

If that's the case, where do you recommend that I find a cheap, reliable, non-high performance turbo?

Thanks

 

[csstevej]

Yes to the first .
And check the for classifieds here. A lot of members sell their parts here from either upgrades or from cars they are parting.
I just picked up a turbo for a couple of hundred and has approx 140xxx miles on it.

If not used the vendors here carry stock turbos at a good price with the latest mods .

 

[2footbraker]

Even if you stop a runaway quickly, there is a very good possibility you will have bent rods. Happened to me a couple years ago.

 

[d2305]

http://idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=117&products_id=388

 

[moterhead]

Idparts.com

 

[jessabug]

What mechanic are you using?

 

[ecodean]

Take your car to jimbote in Sanford and have him check it out. If it needs a turbo, buy a new turbo for about $900 and have jimbote
install it. Used turbos are a gamble unless you know the seller or know how to check the condition yourself.

 

[No More Buffalo]

Pretty sure jimbote got out of the game. I remember a post a few months ago to that effect.

 

[moterhead]

I could put a turbo on it im in hickory nc

 

[Sbeghan]

Is jimbote out of the game? If he is I'm willing to do work in the triangle until my job goes full time.

 

[No More Buffalo]

Looks like my memory was a bit off (but not totally wrong)

Hey Guys I apologize for not returning messages or getting back soon enough....even my regulars have a hard time getting their cars in the shop (i guess they have learned to be patient)...the shop I'm currently working from has a one car @ a time policy ...very simple, very easy to understand and honestly I prefer it that way....lets me focus on the task at hand and lets me have somewhat of a life, because of this I have an almost zero come back rate (lots of happy return customers mind you ) ...and although I am looking at options for building/renting a shop to expand my business, for the moment, I'll just have to keep one person happy @ a time

So give him a call, but it sounds like he might still be kinda swamped. That quote is from June of '12.

 

[jessabug]

Apex Tuning in Raleigh is a great shop. Been taking my cars there for years now. They are on the list too

 

[Sbeghan]

Apex Tuning in Raleigh is a great shop. Been taking my cars there for years now. They are on the list too

Apex tuning is oddly, closer to Wake Forest. Good guys, they know what they're doing.

 

[No More Buffalo]

Eh? They're actually on the east side of Raleigh, in Knightdale.

 

[DubNation]

if you decide to sell it let me know!!!


and if your relaly worried about a runaway you can do what i am doing this summer on my build, ill have to find the link but its called a Guillotine, required on pulling truck. but it garuntees the engine will shut off..even if u have it pegged full throttle (runaway scenario)

 

[halocline]

So, I take it that you all think I'm crazy for considering unloading a 190k TDI with only a leaky turbo.

If that's the case, where do you recommend that I find a cheap, reliable, non-high performance turbo?

Thanks

Just buy a new garrett VNT15 (the OEM turbo) for your car. It'll cost under $1K. Labor should be under $500. Do not buy a cheap turbo, especially from one of the many sites in NC.

Don't buy a used turbo or a rebuilt, unless you want to do this all over again. But first you should think about two things; 1) Are you sure you need a new turbo, and 2) does your car have the original auto trans?

The one real problem that lots of people have with the ALH TDI is the auto transmission. If yours has 190K miles on it, it's likely to need replacement at some point. That's a lot more expensive, maybe $4K. Something to think about.

 

[ItAintRodKnock]

Ahhh, don't tell him that. I was going to buy it off of him.

X2 !!!!

I wouldn't do it directly from tdiclub, but from Craigslist I do keep my eye out those those uneducated tdi owners.