Help with battery issue on 2008 town and country

Claudio

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Location
IL
TDI
09 Jetta SW
Hello

i keep finding my wife's town and country dead.

It usually happens every 3-4 weeks.

Alternator has been replaced and wasn't the problem.
Battery was replaced with a bigger one, and was not the problem.
I replaced the radio myself with the latest model revision available as i read that there was a TSB about radio issues with the first revision that could drain the battery, but it was not the problem.
Here is the bullettin: i just replaced the radio, not all the other parts. http://www.braunlift.com/productinforoot/prodmanuals/TSB/Chrysler-TSB/08-2-1-Electrical.pdf

IT used to happen every 2 weeks when i discovered the problem, after replacing the battery and the radio it happened again today after almost 6 weeks.

If you jump the car it starts right away.

Any suggestion? I took it to the mechanic and they could not find anything, they suggested to take it to the dealer as they might have more experience, but i am afraid on how much it would cost me to have them spent hours troubleshooting. I am almost at the point of buying a new car, i have 3 little kids (older 5 years old) and cannot absolutely afford to have them in a non reliable car especially in the cold
 
Last edited:

greenskeeper

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Mar 10, 2003
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USA
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1998 Jetta TDI

millerman61

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'13 Jetta TDI Premium w/Nav, DSG. Bought back on 12/23/16
I would check for an amp draw with a multimeter when you have it off. If there is a draw then something is still getting power that shouldn't be.
 

Claudio

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Location
IL
TDI
09 Jetta SW
I would check for an amp draw with a multimeter when you have it off. If there is a draw then something is still getting power that shouldn't be.
i will try this when the weather is better
 

Tdijarhead

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Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
I have a grand caravan, one of those power outlets on the front console next to the ash tray is always hot even with the key off. Do you have something plugged in there, a radar detector, gps, cellphone charger, or maybe a hair dryer that never gets disconnected?
 

Claudio

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Location
IL
TDI
09 Jetta SW
I have a grand caravan, one of those power outlets on the front console next to the ash tray is always hot even with the key off. Do you have something plugged in there, a radar detector, gps, cellphone charger, or maybe a hair dryer that never gets disconnected?
thanks but no, i have a phone charger on the one that is connected to the key
 

Intech

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2005
Location
S. Central Pa USA
TDI
2003 Jetta GLS, 1999.5 Golf 2 dr
Hello

i keep finding my wife's town and country dead.

It usually happens every 3-4 weeks.

Alternator has been replaced and wasn't the problem.
Battery was replaced with a bigger one, and was not the problem.
I replaced the radio myself with the latest model revision available as i read that there was a TSB about radio issues with the first revision that could drain the battery, but it was not the problem.
Here is the bullettin: i just replaced the radio, not all the other parts. http://www.braunlift.com/productinforoot/prodmanuals/TSB/Chrysler-TSB/08-2-1-Electrical.pdf



IT used to happen every 2 weeks when i discovered the problem, after replacing the battery and the radio it happened again today after almost 6 weeks.

If you jump the car it starts right away.

Any suggestion? I took it to the mechanic and they could not find anything, they suggested to take it to the dealer as they might have more experience, but i am afraid on how much it would cost me to have them spent hours troubleshooting. I am almost at the point of buying a new car, i have 3 little kids (older 5 years old) and cannot absolutely afford to have them in a non reliable car especially in the cold
Something is obviously draining your battery, and you seem to have touched all bases. What, to me, is confusing, is the time lapse, especially if the car is used regularly, meaning, an intermittent drain, which can be a real PITA. The first thing that I would suggest, is when the car is parked, and the key is removed, get a fuse puller, and pull one fuse at a time. When you get a small spark, that would indicate a current draw. Check that circuit, and see if it should be drawing power. If that doesn't solve your problem, install a decent voltmeter across your battery, and keep an eye on the voltage as you are driving. If you get a negative spike, even a small one, try to determine what device just fired up in the car, and check that item out. After driving the car, check the battery voltage, use a digital DVM, not analog, and check it again about an hour later. Do that until you see a small drain, and check that out. I know that this is a giant PITA, but that's exactly what some electrical problems can be. It's cheaper than replacing the car. Good luck
 

Claudio

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Location
IL
TDI
09 Jetta SW
Something is obviously draining your battery, and you seem to have touched all bases. What, to me, is confusing, is the time lapse, especially if the car is used regularly, meaning, an intermittent drain, which can be a real PITA. The first thing that I would suggest, is when the car is parked, and the key is removed, get a fuse puller, and pull one fuse at a time. When you get a small spark, that would indicate a current draw. Check that circuit, and see if it should be drawing power. If that doesn't solve your problem, install a decent voltmeter across your battery, and keep an eye on the voltage as you are driving. If you get a negative spike, even a small one, try to determine what device just fired up in the car, and check that item out. After driving the car, check the battery voltage, use a digital DVM, not analog, and check it again about an hour later. Do that until you see a small drain, and check that out. I know that this is a giant PITA, but that's exactly what some electrical problems can be. It's cheaper than replacing the car. Good luck
thanks. i got a meter but it has been very cold in the past 2 weeks and have not had a chance to work on it. In the past 2 weeks it hasn't happened, but every time we start the car is like a Russian roulette! :)

i was planning to put the meter in series with the battery, check the drawn with the car off, and start pulling fuses as you suggested. hopefully next week it will be warm enough for me to try!
I have read something about the instrument cluster that can cause the drain because it has some wire that can get disconnected and cause a short, but mine seems to work fine.
 

Hyde7278

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2012
Location
Central Mich
TDI
2001 Golf GL
Does it have power third row folding seats. If so there's a software flash for the control module. The module doesn't go to sleep so it draws power and kills the battery. I can send you the tech bulletin if you need.
 

Claudio

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Location
IL
TDI
09 Jetta SW
hello Hyde7278, no it is the basic version of the van, it is powerless :D
 

micah360

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Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Location
COLORADO
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI
I had a similar issue with my 2011 VW Routan (clone of the Caravan/Town and Country). It would just not start sometimes here and there. It was VERY annoying. I took it to the dealer and of course they couldn't find anything wrong. I also have 3 kids so I feel your pain.

I sold the van a few months later.
 

Claudio

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Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Location
IL
TDI
09 Jetta SW
yeah i am about to sell it too, cannot leave with the fear of having my wife, a new born, a 6 and a 4 years old strained somewhere at subzero temps...
also saturday it was a little bit warmer so i took my meter and checked the amps...everything seems fine: shut down the car and the drainage is 0.1A for a few minutes, than goes to 0.01...basically nothing, watched the meter for 15 minutes and never changed from 0.01....
 

weebl

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Jan 18, 2009
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Edmonton, AB
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2004 Golf (BEW)
yeah i am about to sell it too, cannot leave with the fear of having my wife, a new born, a 6 and a 4 years old strained somewhere at subzero temps...
also saturday it was a little bit warmer so i took my meter and checked the amps...everything seems fine: shut down the car and the drainage is 0.1A for a few minutes, than goes to 0.01...basically nothing, watched the meter for 15 minutes and never changed from 0.01....
Hmm, perhaps the terminals and/or battery cable?

A few years ago, I had a battery go bad on me, with severely corroded terminals, damaging the OE ends of the power cables so badly, I had to get replacement terminals. The replacement terminals I picked up turned out to be problematic. I had what appeared to be a flat battery shortly afterwards on the new battery. Turns out the new terminals just could not clamp on tight enough and worked loose with vibration. Took some effort, but I found a better type, and the problem disappeared.

Check the terminals to ensure they are clamped on tightly, and also check your battery cables, to ensure there are no issues, such as corrosion or that the ground cable isn't loose.
 

Claudio

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Location
IL
TDI
09 Jetta SW
Hmm, perhaps the terminals and/or battery cable?

A few years ago, I had a battery go bad on me, with severely corroded terminals, damaging the OE ends of the power cables so badly, I had to get replacement terminals. The replacement terminals I picked up turned out to be problematic. I had what appeared to be a flat battery shortly afterwards on the new battery. Turns out the new terminals just could not clamp on tight enough and worked loose with vibration. Took some effort, but I found a better type, and the problem disappeared.

Check the terminals to ensure they are clamped on tightly, and also check your battery cables, to ensure there are no issues, such as corrosion or that the ground cable isn't loose.
thanks for the suggestions, terminals appears to be clean and tight. in fact when the battery die, if you jump start the car, it starts right away and the battery is indeed dead
 

whitedog

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Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
That fuse box next to the battery? That is more than just a fuse box. It is called an IPM or Integrated Power Module and they are known to go bad. You can get one from a junkyard but make sure they will take it back in a month if it doesn't work.
 

Claudio

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Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Location
IL
TDI
09 Jetta SW
That fuse box next to the battery? That is more than just a fuse box. It is called an IPM or Integrated Power Module and they are known to go bad. You can get one from a junkyard but make sure they will take it back in a month if it doesn't work.
yes i was thinking to try to replace that as well, i saw some for sale on ebay
 

Zambee500

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2005 Passat TDI GLS, 2014 NMS Passat TDI SEL Premium
You said yours is "powerless" but does it have Video Entertainment System (VES)?

Also I believe the WIN (wireless ignition node?) module is under recall, and that thing affects all sorts of electrical things seemingly unrelated to ignition. Everything from the radio head unit cutting out the volume to the AC blower going inop. Problem is Chryco is short on parts with all the recalls on it, as I understand.

Double-check the cables/terminals. as weebl suggested. I had that happen many moons ago after replacing the battery and finding a dead battery a day or two later. The mechanic came back to the obvious that it was the cables & terminals, but all the corrosion was inside and not really that visible until it was cut apart.
 

Claudio

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Location
IL
TDI
09 Jetta SW
You said yours is "powerless" but does it have Video Entertainment System (VES)?

Also I believe the WIN (wireless ignition node?) module is under recall, and that thing affects all sorts of electrical things seemingly unrelated to ignition. Everything from the radio head unit cutting out the volume to the AC blower going inop. Problem is Chryco is short on parts with all the recalls on it, as I understand.

Double-check the cables/terminals. as weebl suggested. I had that happen many moons ago after replacing the battery and finding a dead battery a day or two later. The mechanic came back to the obvious that it was the cables & terminals, but all the corrosion was inside and not really that visible until it was cut apart.
no it is the basic version, no dvd player, standard radio etc.

It is the ignition switch that is under recall, they say it can pop up back on ACC by itself under certain conditions (like bumpy roads).

how the corrosion on a cable can cause the battery to drain? I could understand a short, but i do not see the reason for corrosion or loose connection to drain the battery
 

whitedog

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Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Corrosion and dirt across the top of the battery can provide a short. A very small short, but a short and it can drain the battery. Yours is intermittent so that's not it.

But a bad connection could keep it from charging.
 

Zambee500

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Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Location
Atlanta, GA
TDI
2005 Passat TDI GLS, 2014 NMS Passat TDI SEL Premium
But a bad connection could keep it from charging.
Exactly. Or to expand on that, a bad or intermittent connection can cause it not to fully charge resulting in the battery slowly dying over an extended period of time.

The WIN module is indeed under recall because of propensity to unexpectedly shut off the engine and losing power, which is a safety issue if it occurs while driving around corners/curves or at highway speeds. The safety issue is the reason for the recall. My point was this Chrysler WIN module also affects lots of other seemingly unrelated electrical issues, such as the radio head unit and AC system. I pointed out the examples of the radio not working properly, and cutting off the front AC blower. The WIN module can also be the reason for random dash lights and CELs going off when they shouldn't be or acting weird. All unrelated to the ignition.

A replaced WIN module has been known to fix these sorts of undiagnosable (sp?) electrical gremlins in the 5th Gen Chryco minivans.

Not saying it's any of these items, but just things to look at. If you can get the WIN module replaced under recall, then why not go ahead and do that?
 

Claudio

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Oct 30, 2009
Location
IL
TDI
09 Jetta SW
oh yes i agree, last time i called about the ignition switch they said they did not have the parts yet, like 3 or 4 months ago, and i would receive another letter when the parts will be available. still waiting...
 

Claudio

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Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Location
IL
TDI
09 Jetta SW
anybody can find the diagram of the alternator wiring? I agree it could be the connection between the alternator and the battery that sometimes it does not work, and would like to put new cables but i need to know how many (does it goes straight to the battery or to the fuse box or starter first) and the size (i believe is a 160amp alternator so it should be AWG # 4)
 

Claudio

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Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Location
IL
TDI
09 Jetta SW
i cleaned up all the cables, spry the anti-oxydant on them, battery charge fine now....and the damn clockspring broke!!!!

Always something with this car!!!!!
 

993er

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Joined
Oct 10, 2013
Location
Canada
TDI
None
Any suggestion? I took it to the mechanic and they could not find anything.
You took it to a "parts replacer" who is incapable of diagnosing anything, which is typical.

I am assuming you drive this vehicle daily, so the only way your battery can go dead in a few weeks is if the alternator is not charging as it should. Install a voltmeter and check to see what the charging voltage is. You can get the the type that installs in the cigarette lighter socket if you do not want to go through the trouble of going all out.

 

Claudio

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Location
IL
TDI
09 Jetta SW
thanks i will get one of those. I usually check with my battery charger that has a digital percentage of charge and last i checked it was 94% after a 1h trip so now that i cleaned the contacts and spry the anty-oxydant the alternator seems to work fine.

I just ordered the clockspring...$207 new on ebay...will install myself...dealer asked me $482+tax to replace it
 

Tdijarhead

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Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
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2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
Just curious , how did the clock spring break?
 

993er

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Oct 10, 2013
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Canada
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None
thanks i will get one of those. I usually check with my battery charger that has a digital percentage of charge and last i checked it was 94% after a 1h trip.
I don't trust those indicators (or colored red / green indicators) that are supposed to make you feel good. Get a cheap digital multimeter, one with a 10A DC setting at Walmart and actually measure the battery voltage directly at the battery.

With the engine running you should get 14.0 to 14.4V.

I have one of these that I keep in one of my vehicles.

 

Claudio

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Location
IL
TDI
09 Jetta SW
Just curious , how did the clock spring break?
no idea. i was driving nd the ABS and ESP lights came on, but the car was driving fine and braking fine.

did some research and found it could be the clockspring or the speed sensor, i turned the steering wheel and it is "clicking" while steering which is a symptom of a bad clockspring
 
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