Help - what's that ticking sound?!

[thechoochlyman]

I'm pleased to say my cylinder bore is well within spec. Cylinder 4 measured right on 3.131, and my telescopic gauge rode up and down the wall of cylinder 3 making snug contact with the wall the entire time. At the very tippy top where I honed it the most it measured 3.132, which is well within the .004" out of round tolerance.

 

[thechoochlyman]

Got the head reassembled yesterday after reaming the guides and lapping the valves.

Someone mentioned to me that perhaps the valve seats are too wide. I was unaware this could be a problem so I researched it a bit. I guess replacing/machining the seats would have been ideal, but I think it'll be fine for who's driving it.

 

[ToddA1]

Nice looking mating surfaces. Drill lap them or did you use something in the shop arsenal?

-Todd

 

[thechoochlyman]

Nice looking mating surfaces. Drill lap them or did you use something in the shop arsenal?

-Todd

I did it the old fashioned way with the little plunger that you spin in your hands. Lol

 

[ToddA1]

Impressive…. I don’t have the patience for that, which is why I use the drill. I see no pitting… how long did that take to get all of them uniform, or did you only show only the best one?

-Todd

 

[thechoochlyman]

Impressive…. I don’t have the patience for that, which is why I use the drill. I see no pitting… how long did that take to get all of them uniform, or did you only show only the best one?

-Todd

They all turned out the same. A couple of them only took one 30-second round of spinning, others took 2 or 3. But overall I was impressed with how little effort it took. The seats all appeared to be in great shape.

 

[GTiTDi]

Head is now off. Doesn't seem to be anything too fishy happening here, but here's a few photos.

All cylinders have some amount of cross hatch remaining. Cylinder 2 looks a little worn, but not severely.

View attachment 126975

Cylinder 1

View attachment 126974

View attachment 126976

View attachment 126978

This piston has a tiny dent on the front. None of them have any signs of cracking.

View attachment 126979

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The head looks great. Just going off my dial Caliper all the valves seem to have the same amount of protrusion. Before I send the head off to anybody I want to remove the valves to inspect them and the guides for wear.

I just started reading this thread and could tell your tick was from wiping out #3 piston

 

[thechoochlyman]

So I went ahead and bought the new piston from AutohausAZ. It got here quick and looks great. Now I'm primarily waiting on my connecting rod bushings to continue. I'm currently working on cleaning out the ring grooves on my other pistons, a couple of them were stuck REALLY hard.

 

[GTiTDi]

I'm just OCD like that. lol Somebody gave me a hint of doubt and I couldn't help but look while I was here.

ACTUALLY... it's probably a good thing I did, because I found something not so good in cylinder 3.

View attachment 127214 View attachment 127215

The oil ring on this piston is COMPLETELY stopped up. And you can tell just how badly scarred the side of the piston itself is. The cylinder wall doesn't look great, but it could certainly be worse. I can feel the ridge with my fingernail. I think a new piston and some time with a honing tool could correct this, but I'm not the expert here.

View attachment 127216

Tell me what you guys think.

1Z pistons don't have a wrist pin bushing or very deep oil channels. I have an identically damaged piston from my 1Z after a hard pull on the highway at 100-120mph, rocketchip stage 3 tune and stock GT15 teenyweeny heat pump(turdbo).

 

[GTiTDi]

So I went ahead and bought the new piston from AutohausAZ. It got here quick and looks great. Now I'm primarily waiting on my connecting rod bushings to continue. I'm currently working on cleaning out the ring grooves on my other pistons, a couple of them were stuck REALLY hard.

NO NO NO you need to get a full set of matching pistons, the 1Z pistons should all be removed and discarded! Use ALH pistons! Even a good set of used ALH pistons are better than those crap 1Z pistons! When I melted my 1Z down I got used ALH pistons and dressed and polished the stock rods. https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?threads/how-to-prevent-meltdown.328936/post-3528343

 

[burpod]

NO NO NO you need to get a full set of matching pistons, the 1Z pistons should all be removed and discarded! Use ALH pistons! Even a good set of used ALH pistons are better than those crap 1Z pistons! When I melted my 1Z down I got used ALH pistons and dressed and polished the stock rods. https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?threads/how-to-prevent-meltdown.328936/post-3528343

i've been trying to suggest it would really be a mistake at this point to not just hone and re-do all 4.... :| it's so little work and you're right there

 

[thechoochlyman]

So just out of curiosity I did a quick search on AutohausAZ. I'm getting the same part number for both AHU and ALH pistons. I've already determined that I have an AHU and not a 1Z, so it looks like I already have the better piston design. Anyone care to confirm this for me?

 

[Steve Addy]

So just out of curiosity I did a quick search on AutohausAZ. I'm getting the same part number for both AHU and ALH pistons. I've already determined that I have an AHU and not a 1Z, so it looks like I already have the better piston design. Anyone care to confirm this for me?

Did you actually look at the block to verify that it was AHU? You may have only gotten a replacement cylinder head....

What about the original piston brand? AHU used either Malhe or Alcan pistons. ALH used only Mahle pistons. 1Z I don't remember looking for it.

Steve

 

[thechoochlyman]

I

Did you actually look at the block to verify that it was AHU? You may have only gotten a replacement cylinder head....

What about the original piston brand? AHU used either Malhe or Alcan pistons. ALH used only Mahle pistons. 1Z I don't remember looking for it.

Steve

I haven't, but the new piston I bought is visually identical to the others. I've really been trying to find out what the actual difference is between the 1Z and AHU/ALH pistons but so far I'm having no luck.

 

[Steve Addy]

I


I haven't, but the new piston I bought is visually identical to the others. I've really been trying to find out what the actual difference is between the 1Z and AHU/ALH pistons but so far I'm having no luck.

I would check the block to see what that says, that will be definitive on the issue of what engine you have. I would not base my assumption about what engine I have on the size of the valves unless that was confirmed by the engine code on the block.

As for the pistons, I had read years back on some source that's probably gone now, that the 1Z pistons were not as robust as the AHU pistons were. I can't recall the specifics, but it could have been related to that which was mentioned earlier by GTITDI.

As for finding evidence in the parts catalog I doubt that you will find any, the history of changes gets wiped out over time until there's only the most recent specification, so what may have originally been shipped installed in your engine, and the part number for it, might not be recorded anywhere anymore, who knows.

But I still would only accept that you have an AHU if your block says it, otherwise you have a 1Z with a replaced cylinder head would be my guess.

At any rate, there is some merit to getting some used ALH pistons and going that route.

Steve

 

[thechoochlyman]

1Z pistons don't have a wrist pin bushing or very deep oil channels.

Well this is probably the only difference that can be found in the two types. Easiest way to tell would be looking for a wrist pin bushing in the piston.

 

[GTiTDi]

Well this is probably the only difference that can be found in the two types. Easiest way to tell would be looking for a wrist pin bushing in the piston.

I could tell yours lacked the wrist pin bushings and has small oil reliefs plus if yours has 8mm valve stems it is most definitely a 1Z

 

[GTiTDi]

i've been trying to suggest it would really be a mistake at this point to not just hone and re-do all 4.... :| it's so little work and you're right there

he should also ditch the heat pump while he's at it

 

[thechoochlyman]

I could tell yours lacked the wrist pin bushings and has small oil reliefs plus if yours has 8mm valve stems it is most definitely a 1Z

Mine has 7mm valve stems.

he should also ditch the heat pump while he's at it

Heat pump? You mean the EGR system I immediately removed when I bought the car 8 years ago? lol

 

[GTiTDi]

Mine has 7mm valve stems.



Heat pump? You mean the EGR system I immediately removed when I bought the car 8 years ago? lol

no, the GT15/K03

 

[GTiTDi]

I'm just OCD like that. lol Somebody gave me a hint of doubt and I couldn't help but look while I was here.

ACTUALLY... it's probably a good thing I did, because I found something not so good in cylinder 3.

View attachment 127214 View attachment 127215

The oil ring on this piston is COMPLETELY stopped up. And you can tell just how badly scarred the side of the piston itself is. The cylinder wall doesn't look great, but it could certainly be worse. I can feel the ridge with my fingernail. I think a new piston and some time with a honing tool could correct this, but I'm not the expert here.

View attachment 127216

Tell me what you guys think.

definitely 1Z pistons...maybe the head was replaced somewhere along the line, maybe they slapped AHU heads on the last of the 1Z blocks in the early 97 Passats

 

[thechoochlyman]

no, the GT15/K03

I'd love to, but it's gonna have to wait for the next round of stimmys from the Federal government.

 

[thechoochlyman]

By the way, I'm curious to know what people are doing for torque spec on the connecting rod caps. Is it 22 ft/lbs only or 22 + 90 degrees? Coat lightly with engine oil before installing?

Also, is it common practice to oil the head bolts before torquing?

 

[oilhammer]

Connecting Rod Bolt:
- Always Replace.
- Tighten in two stages:
- First stage, tighten to: 30 Nm
- Second stage, turn: an additional 90° (1/4 turn).
- Oil threads and contact surfaces.

 

[thechoochlyman]

Bottom end is back together and I got the head set back on the block last night.

I verified that the old pistons were the 1Z design with the smaller oil holes. They did manage to last 300,000 miles though, and with the amount of cleaning I did on them I'm sure they'll next until next time. At least the cylinder that DID give up on me has the newer design.

Here's connecting rods 1 and 3, you can see how much the bushing in #3 had worn from the piston being chewed up on the side.



I made a .010" undersized bushing at the shop to press the wrist pin bushings out.





First time honing a wrist pin bushing, but I did get them both within tolerance - at least in the center. It's a little more loose on the ends on the bushing, but I'm still gonna send it. No more than .001" total clearance. About .0005" clearance in the middle of the bushing. I think it will wear in fine over time.







I have no doubt that my engine is going to run better after cleaning the rings on the other three cylinders like I did. The middle rings were all stuck really bad on the thrust side and full of carbon buildup. I set them all 120 degrees apart with no gaps parallel to the wrist pins. Hopefully I'll get running again this weekend.

 

[thechoochlyman]

After a solid 9-hour day (including picking up my kid from school and eating lunch) this saga is finally coming to a satisfactory end. I knew today would probably be pretty straightforward just because it was all final assembly, and fortunately I wasn't too far off base.

Made use of my brother-in-law's new Craftsman torque wrench for the head bolts.



Had a major "oopsie" that included a few choice swears while installing the injectors. For some reason the documents I had specified 52 ft/lbs for the bolts which is WAY too tight. Before I even got close the bolt broke clean off. Fortunately for me I used liberal amounts of anti-seize, and it easily backed out with nothing but a flat-head screwdriver.





As I arrive at the hardware store I'm on the verge of tears as I'm certain they won't have an M8x50 grade 8.8 bolt. But they did; relief washed over me in an awesome wave.

I found an old post from Frank06 (Thanks again Frank!) detailing how to seat the injector seals with a hammer and torque to 20 lbs, so that's what I did.



Glad to see that my prototype coolant flange is still holding up well after about seven years - with no leaking in the interim.



Because my original didn't have a circle milled around the overflow barb for a wrench, I EDM'd a hex in my barb to tighten it with. lol





For my next trick I laid down a towel to clear out the injector lines before hooking them to my clean, new injectors. (Thanks, Frank!)



With great anticipation I cranked my engine over again for the first time, and it fired right up sounding as good as it ever did. I only forgot two minor details - the spring clamp on one of the intake pipes, and the turbo feed oil line was loose.

I've gotta call my insurance tomorrow to have coverage reinstated (might as well save that $40 when possible), but so far everything seems great. Only time will tell I suppose, but I'm very happy to be up and running again! The V6 B5 is nice, but I really missed my baby.

 

[ToddA1]

See that, I knew you would be able to get it done.

-Todd

 

[Windex]

No more ticking?

 

[thechoochlyman]

No more ticking?

Nope, all gone.

 

[Steve Addy]

Nope, all gone.

Good to hear!

Oddly enough someone texted me yesterday about the hold down bolt torque amount, 20NM or 15 lbs ft.

Steve