HELP - stalled during Diesel Purge, will not start (did not run dry)

verylongdrive

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Feb 10, 2005
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Golf,2001
I was running 2 bottles of LM Diesel purge (5/16" ID hose and a Fram fuel filter on the input line, as recommended, and 5/16" OD hose for the return line) while driving around town, calculating that I'd have at least 2-3" left in the bottle when gettign back home.

Just before turning onto our street, it shuddered twice. I figured I must be running out of fluid after all, and pushed in the clutch to coast around the turn. A moment later( before even turning) the battery light came on the steering was hard, so it had stalled right after pushing the clutch in. I coasted and then pushed it the rest of the way home, in case the just-in-case tools I had with me weren't enough to prime the pump.

Home, I found that I was far from dry (2" as expected). I tried to start it up, and could see fuel (DP, that is) moving in my temp. lines, but it will not run. (I then sucked fuel out the return line for good measure and hooked the filter etc. back up, and it makes no difference.)

It seems to fire a little, a sort of fire-crank-fire-crank-fire-crank-... noise until I give up. It sounds vaguely like when the anti-shudder valve is actuated by VAG-com to turn off the engine.
EDIT: cranking it again now, it may just be the usual cranking-unsuccessfully soun, such as when the glowplugs haven't been on long enough.

Despite the temperature, nothing is gelled up, and now that everything is cold, the glowplug light comes/stays on the way it should (does that rule out relay 109?).

The anti-shudder valve (fragile black arm that turns axle behind EGR 90 degrees) is not stuck, as far as can be seen by turning it on the outside.

What else would cause this? IS there and immobilizer of soem sort? This is an early-ish '01 (mk 20 ABS instead of the later mk 60).

I have recently bought a VAG-com, but have very little experience with it.
Is there anything of use it can see when the car is not even running?
EDIT: I read the codes, yielding only 0380 (glowplug circuit; intermittent, which I knew); I don't really know what else to look for. Injection quantity-actual looked similar enough to IQ-requested. an "engine start" field in the instruments says "permitted", so I guess the engine isn't intentionally being choked.

I'm quite out of ideas.

?
 
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verylongdrive

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There were no obvious problems prior to the stalling. It was just due for an application of DP, and an oil change.

I knew about the glowplug code (probably 1 plug; nothing that double-time glowing, good in single-digit weather anyway, couldn't overcome). And that certainly wouldn't stall it or keep it from startin when hot.

One thing that might have caused problems was changing the fuel filter several weeks ago, and not knocking the bubbles out of the Powerservce in the filter. I cranked it a total of probably 30 seconds (no more than 5 s at a time) trying to get fuel into the pump, until I remembered about the bubbles and checked the filter (finding the top quite dry).
I was afraid this might damage something, but have driven it for weeks since then without any apparent trouble. Could brief dry running of the IP cause damage that is only revealed by DP?
 

verylongdrive

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Any ideas? Anybody?

I do have a timing belt, and it appears to have some tension.

What can fail like that, while driving (2nd or 3rd gear, going about 30mph, having just accelerated a bit and now slowing slightly)?
 

verylongdrive

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Golf,2001
Articles on dieselschrauber.de mention (related to a variety of symptom, some of which eventually lead to a no-start condition) electrically controlled
1. quantity adjustment and
2. a shutoff valve.

(1) in particular is mentioned as filling up and plugging up with metal shavings, when that part of the pump is just starting to go out (and they recommend cleaning out the shavings for making it work again for quite some time). For diagnostic purposes, disconnecting (1) is recommended, which causes a limp mode of sorts.

Are US spec ALH engines euipped like this? Would unplugging leaves this part in such a state where the engine can run?


Anti-shudder valve: Some thread with good pictures of this seemed to indicate that it is actuated (the arm pulls) in order to shut the engien off, and that it might get stuck shut.

Elsewhere, propping this open after the arm is broken is mentioned, in order to start the car.

So which is it? Does it need to be relaxed (arm all the way out of bellows) or actuated (arm is pulled in, metal stop tab is up) in order for the engine to run?
 

tditom

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Sep 5, 2001
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san antonio & austin
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formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
shutoff valve is not anti-shudder valve. the former is the solenoid on the IP. The latter is the thingy on the air intake. I'm not sure about which way it should be for running the car, but will look at this when I get home tonight and report back.
 
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verylongdrive

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Is there anything else I can check (how?), or unplug to bypass?

And, as I'm now planning ahead for giving up: Can a fwd manual-trans. A4 be towed with all 4 wheels on the ground for 70 miles without causing excess wear?
 

JoeBleed

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Mar 29, 2005
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Macclesfield, NC, USA
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Jetta, 2005 A4, Reflex Silver
Are you getting any color of smoke from the tale pipe? Can you go through the bleeding procedure as if you did run the pump driy? ie crack open the injector lines one by one as well as pulling fuel all the way though the Ip and fuel filter through the return line?

I might be possibel with that little bit of liquid in the can it was slashing around enough to feed large air bubbles to the injection pump. Not the best thing for the IP but i don't think it would kill it. Just my thoughts.
 

verylongdrive

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I have pulled fuel through the IP with a vacuum pump, out the return line.

How is it done at the injectors? Turn the big hex nut at the top (just where the visible fuel line ends) a bit to the left (how much?), and then crank briefly?
 

ymz

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May 12, 2003
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Between Toronto & Montreal
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If you have already pulled the fuel throughout the system, unscrew the feed tube nuts (17 mm) from the top of Cyl. 2 and 3 - about a quarter-turn, and have someone else turn the motor over... (you should also put a charger on the battery before you try this - just to make sure there's enough "juice" to spin the motor over quickly enough)... When you see fuel spitting out during the cranking, quickly tighten down those hold-down nuts while the cranking's going on... (not too tight !!!!!!) hopefully it'll start... if not, repeat with Cyl. 1 and 4...

Good luck,

Yuri.

(PS: checking for voltage at the fuel cutoff solenoid wouldn't be a bad idea, either...)
 

Tisey06

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Jan 8, 2007
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Bay Area, Ca.
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Jetta 2000 TDI, Golf 99.5 TDI
Try changing the fuel sensor on top of the pump, it is only $10.00 at tdi parts, or it may be air in the fuel system like YMZ said.
 

verylongdrive

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Feb 10, 2005
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Golf,2001
Got car started after repeat cranking and bleeding (only after the very tiny bubbles stopped coming) of all injectors. (After the last bit of bleeding, it still took a total of at least 10 s of cranking before the slightest bit of firing was heard.)
Thanks everybody, particularly Herm who suggested the steps to take slightly before everybody else.
 

doubledls

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Jun 30, 2002
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jackson county, michigan
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Jetta, 1999.5 A4, black, 2009 Jetta 6 M, black
It takes a lot of cranking and bleeding

I actually had to bleed some of the injectors twice to get all the air out after my fuel filter plugged last week and I put in a new filter filled with fuel treatment. In doing this and seeing it done several times it takes quite a bit of cranking to get the engine to fire over and a while to get the most of the bubbles out in the fuel line.
 

tditom

Top Post Dawg
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Sep 5, 2001
Location
san antonio & austin
TDI
formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
bob-
where are you getting your fuel that plugged your filter?
-tom (your parma homeboy :))
 

Herm TDI

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Richmond, Maine...The far side of Witsend
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verylongdrive said:
Got car started .Thanks everybody, particularly Herm who suggested the steps to take slightly before everybody else.
I'm just glad that you're engine is running and that its back on the road....diesel on
 
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