Help select clutch BHW FHN

Uberhare

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
Too many.
The 240mm seems to be the ticket. I used the stock USED one that came with my swap, but purchased the new setup same as Windex waiting for it to slip. It never did. I still have the new parts.
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
Yes the Whitbread is a great flywheel design. The clutch master clutch sucks.

As for the south bend, an endurance treated stock 1.8t clutch and single mass valeo kit.
 

Jason TDI

Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio
TDI
2005 Passat Wagon GLS
I’m sold on the 240mm dmf clutch to replace my Whitbread slipmasters setup. Does anyone have a complete part list for this job? It would be very helpful to have correct/confirmed part numbers going in to avoid downtime on my DD.
 

Jason TDI

Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio
TDI
2005 Passat Wagon GLS
Thanks Windex. I understand I will also need a bell housing spacer, longer transmission to engine mounting bolts, and a new euro starter for the 5-speed? Anyone know those part numbers? Is anything else required?
 

Lotawood

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Location
montana
TDI
2005 BHW Passat sedan
I think I'm going to do that 240mm DMF combo. Not sold on many 228 setups.
Richmondvatdi stage 3 South Bend DD testing sounds the most interesting.
I guess we all want to put something in that lasts plenty long. The 240 guys sound happy.
I had my auto to manual conversion delayed till next winter. The auto is fine for now. But I'm not an auto transmission guy.

I looked a little. Couldn't find. Is darkside a provider of starters and spacer? Or is there a better place to get those?
 
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vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
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PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
Sweet! I like doing business with Matt! Great guy and the tech assistance I've had with south bend has always been equally good.
 

Lotawood

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Location
montana
TDI
2005 BHW Passat sedan
Matt's setup now looks like the way to go. I prefer single mass flywheels in pickups and equipment. Thanks Matt.
Says 240 mm flywheel that still uses a stock starter and no spacer. I guess a custom made flywheel can do that? 30 lbs. sound good and heavy.
Single mass flywheel 240 mm and South bend clutch, with Whitbread. DMF 228 mm for Richmondvatdi setup with South bend clutch and LUK DMF.

Nice to have some choices.
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
I had Matt's set up for less than a year before the clutch masters pressure plate bit the dust. They usually fail at the hub springs.

Was a direct fit with the stock bhw starter.

If my 4runner isn't on the road in 9k, I'll be ordering from Matt.
 

d24tdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Location
MT
TDI
96 B4V
Nice news on this. Makes me feel like I was smart to procrastinate on replacing the clutch in my 012 swapped '04 that I let sit all winter... When I last looked in the fall, this was not yet an option.

Has anyone tried any of the new Southbend clutch options with the Whitbread flywheel so far? I am assuming the Stg 1 clutch is the most daily driver-friendly?

Lotawood where in MT are you? I'm just east of Bozeman. Don't see too many other TDIs around the state.
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
I'm going to call south bend today to see what they recommend for longitivity. I've got to address my clutch slippage this week and I'm 7k from a timing belt so it's time to pull apart a passat.
 

50harleyrider

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Location
charleston,wv
TDI
2005 B5.5 TDI/geared BSM, BV43A turbo,stage 2 TDTUNING. 2005 5sp manual passat tdi stage 2 tdtuning,BSM delete. 2015 Passat TDI 6sp manual.
The LUK DMF setup is awesome even with the stage 2 . I advise anyone going that route make sure you have the actuator rod the right length. No adjustment other than varying the length and reinstalling it. I had to play with mine a couple of iterations in length. I just used 1/4" welding rod and rounded the end.
 

d24tdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Location
MT
TDI
96 B4V
The LUK DMF setup is awesome even with the stage 2 . I advise anyone going that route make sure you have the actuator rod the right length. No adjustment other than varying the length and reinstalling it. I had to play with mine a couple of iterations in length. I just used 1/4" welding rod and rounded the end.
You are referring to the 240mm DMF though, right? That requires the bellhousing spacer and special starter?
 

Windex

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
Yes, the 240mm DMF requires the 5.5mm spacer and snub-nose, EU only starter. On the plus side, the clutch holds whatever torque you throw at it and (for me at least) has been flawless for 6 years and 300,000+ km.

So many problem threads with the 228mm setups and 240mm SMF clutches.
 

d24tdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Location
MT
TDI
96 B4V
Seems to be no question that setup is the most desirable but a lot of special parts, need to order replacement starter from Europe if it ever fails, and 5.5mm less engagement between the input shaft and the crank pilot which is already marginal. So tradeoffs either way no?

Obviously yours has been a success though. What did you do to keep the input shaft bearing happy with enough support in the pilot while incorporating the BH spacer?
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
I'm giving the southbend stage 2/Whitbread a try. Their tech guy suggested the stage 2 for longitivity. The guy I spoke to said they didnt do the endurance treatment on clutches anymore.
 

Windex

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
Seems to be no question that setup is the most desirable but a lot of special parts, need to order replacement starter from Europe if it ever fails, and 5.5mm less engagement between the input shaft and the crank pilot which is already marginal. So tradeoffs either way no?

Obviously yours has been a success though. What did you do to keep the input shaft bearing happy with enough support in the pilot while incorporating the BH spacer?
The input shaft engagement has been a nothing-burger for me. I installed the stock input shaft bearing but left it a bit proud of it's normal place in the crank. Giving about 5.0mm of engagement on the input shaft by my measurements. Not ideal, but when I had the transmission out at 300,000km past install to replace the DMF, the input shaft was flawless.
I put this down to the long input shafts with very robust bearings inside the transmission - the shaft is already well supported. I have installed a number of clutches in my time and there are a few with no input shaft (external in the crank) whatsoever.

For the EU only starter, I did order a second one just in case. It has sat on the shelf for the last 7 or so years since install doing absolutely nothing, but it's there just in case.
 

d24tdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Location
MT
TDI
96 B4V
The input shaft engagement has been a nothing-burger for me. I installed the stock input shaft bearing but left it a bit proud of it's normal place in the crank. Giving about 5.0mm of engagement on the input shaft by my measurements. Not ideal, but when I had the transmission out at 300,000km past install to replace the DMF, the input shaft was flawless.
I put this down to the long input shafts with very robust bearings inside the transmission - the shaft is already well supported. I have installed a number of clutches in my time and there are a few with no input shaft (external in the crank) whatsoever.

For the EU only starter, I did order a second one just in case. It has sat on the shelf for the last 7 or so years since install doing absolutely nothing, but it's there just in case.
Good to know. I have seen some that do not use a pilot bearing or bushing as well but I have always understood that the ones designed to work that way have a heavily beefed up front bearing for the input shaft. I figure the ones designed to use a pilot bearing probably need at least some kind of support. But it sounds like your method worked, and probably represents the ideal setup.

In the interest of cost and N. America parts availability (major problem here where I live, even getting US-spec parts can take many days, let alone items from overseas), for a daily driver type car I am probably going to try the latest and greatest Whitbread SMF/Southbend setup. Alternately a stock 228mm 1.8T spec DMF/clutch set and get the engine tuned down to BEW output or similar. I don't really understand who needs 300 ft-lb in a lightweight and slippery Passat sedan, this car would still do 100 mph on cruise control even with a stock 90hp VE type motor under the hood. Right now it has some kind of tune in it that breaks the tires loose just rolling onto the pedal in second gear and will accelerate past 100 climbing a steep pass in top gear with my foot only halfway into the pedal, no way a stock 228mm clutch will hold it thus the aggressive clutch in the car now that broke the trans... but I don't see why the 1.8T setup wouldn't work if you detuned it to limit torque to something reasonable like 180 ft-lb or less. Lots of these B5 cars rolling around the rest of the world happily with 90hp engines, really think even the stock BHW spec is overkill. Could even do one of the "clutch saver" type tunes to keep peak torque at low RPM under control but let it roll in more fuel and boost at higher RPM to extend the torque curve and get back some of the HP. Anyway that's a different discussion.

Rick - will be curious to hear how you like the Stg 2 Southbend setup if you get yours put together before I get started with mine.
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
I'll keep you guys posted. I for one like the 300 ft lbs of torque! I have the same tune in my 87 4runner

The clutchmasters set up break in was God awful. I city drive every day, did so much more back then as my sons school was in the center of the 3rd largest city in the state.
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
Whitbread stage 2 ordered. Earlier this week. Matt is on vacation but as usual his customer service is stellar. I didn't expect a message until next week. My clutch from south bend has been released and flywheel will ship when he gets back next week. He messaged me from his vacation to update me.

My customers can expect 0 from me when I'm on the boat during the weekends, they can expect even less when I'm on vacation (also on a boat but further out).

Matt is, as usual, on top of things. It may be a "designer" clutch but I like supporting other USA small business. I have faith the south bend set up will last, I'll put it to the test. I'll keep updated on how it works out.
 

d24tdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Location
MT
TDI
96 B4V
Looking forward to hearing. I just ordered a replacement DUK trans to go in place of the broken GGB in mine currently. Need to order a clutch once as soon as gets here and hopefully get mine back on the road before next winter. Hope your experience is good, if so I'll be going the same way.
 

Yetii

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2021
Location
New York
TDI
2005 TDi Passat
In the middle of my manual swap and Frans provided me with a GFL tranny (came out of a 1999 Passat TDi.) I got a 1.9tdi sachs clutch kit and was told it would hold stage 2 power. Sachs confirmed with me the clutch kit should hold about 300ftlb wheel torque. But I’m only doing a stage 1 Malone mainly for the fuel economy increase. It will be my daily driver and im not the type to bang gears or WoT in low RPMs. I have faith it’ll last a while especially knowing I’m babying the car because I wanna keep it forever. Will keep you guys updated with my journal I will be starting soon in the TDi Conversion section. Also looking forward to PickleRick’s experience with the new clutch setup.
 

MEgearhead

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2016
Location
Virginia
TDI
B5.5, 4L, 4G
I have the Sachs 228mm performance clutch/DMF from Frans and a Stage II. So far the clutch has been perfect. It holds great and is mild mannered. Break-in was a non-event. The pedal seems a little heavy, but the only other VAG I can compare with is a friend's Golf R. It a bit heavier than that, but not as heavy as the fully mechanical one in my Dad's '78 F150 when I was a kid. I think you will like that clutch.
 

Windex

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
I have the Sachs 228mm performance clutch/DMF from Frans and a Stage II. So far the clutch has been perfect. It holds great and is mild mannered. Break-in was a non-event. The pedal seems a little heavy, but the only other VAG I can compare with is a friend's Golf R. It a bit heavier than that, but not as heavy as the fully mechanical one in my Dad's '78 F150 when I was a kid. I think you will like that clutch.
How many miles on it?
 

MEgearhead

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2016
Location
Virginia
TDI
B5.5, 4L, 4G
Don't know offhand. I'd say around 5k. I don't drive it much anymore. My 17 yo son does. It sees only stop and go city driving in northern VA (not particularly kind on clutches). The first several hundred after break-in were teaching him how to drive a manual. I think Yetii already purchased the same clutch. I was only trying to offer some positive input. We'll see how it pans out. I know it holds at least as much as the tires will in 1, 2, and 3.
 

Yetii

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2021
Location
New York
TDI
2005 TDi Passat
Don't know offhand. I'd say around 5k. I don't drive it much anymore. My 17 yo son does. It sees only stop and go city driving in northern VA (not particularly kind on clutches). The first several hundred after break-in were teaching him how to drive a manual. I think Yetii already purchased the same clutch. I was only trying to offer some positive input. We'll see how it pans out. I know it holds at least as much as the tires will in 1, 2, and 3.
Appreciate the optimism and hope, as someone like me who is a huge VW fan and appreciate these cars for what they are I know that my clutch will do just fine with a stage 1. Considering how pristine the car is I wanna keep it that way so I’m not gunna be beating on this car. The car has been well taken care of by it’s previous owners and I plan to do the same. I just practically replaced everything on the engine besides the cams as I inspected them and they look perfectly fine. Let alone the previous owner just did the control arms and shocks about 20-30k miles ago and rotors, pads and tires all around about 5k miles ago.
 

MEgearhead

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2016
Location
Virginia
TDI
B5.5, 4L, 4G
For technical accuracy. The clutch I put in is what Frans calls the "Sachs racing clutch". It's part of Sachs Performance line. 999715.999961 clutch, 883082.999715 pressure plate and 2294.000.453 DMF. He also offers a less expensive Sachs clutch.
 
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