Help select clutch BHW FHN

Lotawood

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Location
montana
TDI
2005 BHW Passat sedan
I'm getting parts for a manual swap. I have an FHN transmission/gearbox here already to replace the GMR.
I'm not sure on a clutch. I see some other threads with people deciding on a clutch.
I think I want a SMF and sounds like the heavier the flywheel the better. I see people sending their stuff to South Bend for endurance treatment.
I'm not opposed to DMF, but I don't like them as well as SMF in diesel pickups. Not very concerned with smooth and quiet on a pickup. So likely less worried in this 2005 Passat.
I see vendors selling stage 2 or 3 clutches with endurance treatment already. Those were SMF. I look for 1.8t clutch options. I see 02A, 02J and 01E offerings.

I also think I will get a stage 2 tune with 305 lb. ft. of torque. Stage 1 is 285. Not very many more dollars while I'm there with manual tune, for stage 2. Also these 5 volt glow plugs aren't working well where I'm at. So 7 volt upgrade in there as well as hard parts.

So is a South Bend Stage 2 Endurance with a 350 foot pound rating what I want? No extra shipping to get treatment. Available from my closest vendor.

I have a donor vehicle with a 1.8t gas engine; 2003 Passat. For shifter, linkage, petals, and I assume axles. Need to buy the extra transmission mount for the auto subframe.

Thanks
 

d0u8l3m

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Location
Connecticut
TDI
B5.5 Passat
Whitbread or alternative heavy SMF + a b5 rs4 clutch has been the best setup I've had so far.

I posted about it here:

 

Uberhare

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
Too many.
If anyone is doing a 6 speed and wants a 240mm setup, I have a new DMF and Sachs SRE clutch sitting here. $1500 firm (CAD)
 

Uberhare

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
Too many.
Just the clutch kit and flywheel. Starter is staying with the transmission and full swap. I bought these as an upgrade, but never needed to change the clutch like I thought I would,
 

50harleyrider

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Location
charleston,wv
TDI
2005 B5.5 TDI/geared BSM, BV43A turbo,stage 2 TDTUNING. 2005 5sp manual passat tdi stage 2 tdtuning,BSM delete. 2015 Passat TDI 6sp manual.
I'm getting ready to put a clutch in my fhn with stg 2 tune. The DMF Luk that Cascade sells is my choice. Good for 300 ft-lb and will have the smoothness of DMF. You need to call Aaron at Cascade. He's got several of these units out there and said all the guys are happy. <$500 so not too pricey either. Mine looks nice and can't wait to find time to install it.
 

Lotawood

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Location
montana
TDI
2005 BHW Passat sedan
Ok I will call Aaron.
I'm not doing my auto to manual conversion until this winter. So I'll see how 50harleyrider likes his.
I'm looking forward to no slush box. Everything else I drive is manual shift and I like it that way.
 

Uberhare

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
Too many.
Pretty much anything that is built up for more performance. None of the stock units will hold long with a chipped BHW & 5 speed. The larger 240mm 6 speed stock setup will hold though.
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
I've got I believe some 2 years now and maybe 20 to 30,000 miles on my south bend endurance treated valeo 1.8t single mass flywheel clutch kit paired stage 2 tune 5 speed converted sedan. I'm at 260,000 miles now, I think I did the b.s. delete,timing belt and 5 speed conversion at @220k, my first clutch kit didn't last 10-15k miles.



If left stock your estimation of 6 months would probably be correct but south bend does a good job giving that 1.8t single mass valeo clutch disc much more grip.

That's over double what my 1000 plus dollar clutch masters kit lasted me and it's a clutch i don't mind driving daily. I liked unsprung 6 puck clutches in my dohc vtec Honda's with solid motor mounts more than I liked that crap fx300. Did i mention the only thing worse than the near 3000 mile break in period on the clutch masters clutch was the customer service at clutch masters? Even after the break in the clutch masters clutch was a pain in bumper to bumper traffic.

Now I don't drive my car like I stole it but i have lots of city and traffic driving so I use the clutch more than a highway mile vehicle.

I've not had so much as a slip on my valeo set up.


Avoid clutch masters at all costs. Terrible company to deal with and their customer service rep is a joke. Whitbread needs to find a new clutch supplier for his very well designed flywheel. Everything about clutch masters sucks. Look at their reviews on other vehicles like camaros, they are not highly regarded as a long lasting or street friendly clutch. Matt went out of his way to get me a discount price on a replacment clutch kit but I refuse to give clutch masters another dime. I also have zero interest in changing out a clutch every 9 months to a year on a daily driver moderately priced family sedan I use to carry my kid to school in daily. Go with valeo, send it to south bend.

The hub separating from the disk is a very common failure point for the clutch masters kits. My issue however was the so called self adjusting pressure plate lost all pressure. When removed for inspection there was little to no claiming pressure, once i broke the mounting Allan head bolts lose holding the plate to the flywheel they came out with no resistance by hand. There should be clamping pressue. They blamed the failure on heat, go figure trying to limp home on a pressure plate that isn't holding is going to develop heat. I wasted shipping to them to examine it. Once it arrived a half wit named I think Louis told me warranty was only 90 days. I wouldnt have wasted my time/money shipping across country then a week for them to deny warranty had i known this. Keep in mind he already knew the purchase date well before i shipped it. Then he made it out to be an inconvenience that I made him ship it back to me.
 
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ksmoker

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Location
Central VA
TDI
05 Passat
I got my south bend stage 2 daily setup installed and back on the road last night. First impressions are great as far as drivability... feels like stock. I hope it lasts. I'm stage 2 tune and stage 3 colt cam. This is my first PD car and I'm pleasantly surprised by the power.

I will say, it did cost significantly more than I originally hoped. I thought I could re-use my SMF. Not the case.
 

Uberhare

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
Too many.

themightyquinn

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
TDI
1999 New Beetle Black
I did my DUK conversion about 10K miles ago (if that). I have a little flare of slippage in 3rd and 4th sometimes at full throttle around 2-3K rpm so Stage 1 and it seems like the 1.9TDI Sachs flywheel set that I thought would hold up to the rigors of BHW usage doesn't. I was just going to live with it, but it looks like my transmission needs to be replaced as well (non-existent detents and my shifter vibrates/pulls out of all gears without any pressure on knob). I'm trying to figure out where to go from here clutch wise and I'm not sure what will work and hold up to my pretty pedestrian driving style.

Pretty much anything that is built up for more performance. None of the stock units will hold long with a chipped BHW & 5 speed. The larger 240mm 6 speed stock setup will hold though.
I've looked at a bunch of threads and I'm unclear. Does the 240mm 6 speed setup work with a 5 speed trans (will probably replace with another DUK or FHN)? Do I need anything other than the clutch? And while I'm asking you questions, I've read through some of the 6-speed threads and am unclear what the final verdict is on the parts needed if I ultimately go for an 01E. Do I need the 5.5mm spacer? 01E (gas?) starter? Bronze pilot bearing snout? For axles will a USDM 01E set work (A6 2.7t maybe?) Thanks for your help!

Since we were mentioned - we're going through a lot of these kits, it's honestly hard to keep them on the shelf. Seems to hold up fine to a stage 2, and is your best bang for the buck.

If it would hold up it's interesting, but your listing is kind of confusing. "01E Passat TDI 1.8T" doesn't really seem to match up to any car I can think of. All 01E clutches are 240mm AFAIK, but the description and the p/n you list (02-028) seems to match up to the stock replacement 228mm 1.8T PP & clutch kit. To which I guess is added a DMF? Given my experience I'm now leery of any stock 1.8t or 1.9t clutch 228mm clutch kit, and suspicious of one holding up to a stage 2 tune when mine seems to have issues with even stage 1. I appreciate any light you can shed on this and experience people have had with this setup so far. Thanks!
 

50harleyrider

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Location
charleston,wv
TDI
2005 B5.5 TDI/geared BSM, BV43A turbo,stage 2 TDTUNING. 2005 5sp manual passat tdi stage 2 tdtuning,BSM delete. 2015 Passat TDI 6sp manual.
The LUK 1.8t DMF clutch will do you just fine and mine is smooth as silk after 500 miles.
 

themightyquinn

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
TDI
1999 New Beetle Black
I'm pretty sure the OEM 240mm options require the spacer and the starter. The Whitbread and those designed as conversions for 1.8T cars (ECS RA4, TTV 240mm) based on the distributive property should just bolt on (i.e. they don't require mods on the B5 1.8T cars).

Would love to know the answers to this for sure but all the clutch threads are kind of a mess with no-one closing the circle on the exact parts needed (spacers, pilot bearing adapters, starters, etc). It seems like at least some threads have post that were deleted or lost in the forum software changes.
 
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Uberhare

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
Too many.
I can tell you with the 6 speed the stock 240mm setup works fine with a stage 2 tune. It's only the smaller ones that have the problems.
 

Jason TDI

Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio
TDI
2005 Passat Wagon GLS
50harleyrider, I have a BHW 5-speed manual conversion with the smf Whitbread/Clutchmasters setup and it is already beginning to slip under heavy acceleration in 5th gear (stage 2 tune). Is the 1.8t dmf clutch setup from Cascade a direct bolt on replacement for my current setup, or will I need a starter, spacers, etc? Do you know if anyone has accumulated significant time/mileage with the 1.8t setup? Thanks!
 
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Windex

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
That clutch is 240mm. It should work fine, but you're going to need a different starter and the 5.5mm bellhousing spacer.
 

50harleyrider

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Location
charleston,wv
TDI
2005 B5.5 TDI/geared BSM, BV43A turbo,stage 2 TDTUNING. 2005 5sp manual passat tdi stage 2 tdtuning,BSM delete. 2015 Passat TDI 6sp manual.
my LUK 1.8t dmf is still smooth after 3000 miles. Of course I don't attempt to make it slip by flooring it at 1500 rpm in the higher gears so if you don't want problems don't do that either and it should give you good service.
 

dylphil97

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 5, 2020
Location
Winston Salem, NC
TDI
B5.5 Passat BHW sedan
my LUK 1.8t dmf is still smooth after 3000 miles. Of course I don't attempt to make it slip by flooring it at 1500 rpm in the higher gears so if you don't want problems don't do that either and it should give you good service.
How’s that holding up? It’s a 228mm so no special starter and spacer needed, correct?
My 228mm SMF and Southbend Clutch is starting to slip at 2500 rpm’s in 4th and 5th
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
3000 miles wouldn't be a good measuring stick. Neither would 10k. I've had my passat 5 speed converted since 2018. My southbound bend worked smf 1.8t went in @ sept 2019 and began to slip this past fall . Im still limping it. While I dont recall what rpm she slips, she does it when I get heavy with the skinny pedal.

Over the past month I can slip in 3rd so it's time to do the clutch and timing belt again.

Would be nice to get 4 to 6 years out of a clutch that is readily available stateside and sub 1200 bucks.
 

Windex

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
At the risk of being a broken record on the 240mm clutch, I have had exactly zero issues with mine. Zero.

I lug it from 1200 rpm up, no slip. I climb a local 8% grade in sixth with my foot down... Nothing. No slip.

I simply don't have to worry about it. I don't have to baby it, don't have to go easy on it in top gear... nothing. I just drive it, and have been for 8 years (installed in the spring of 2014) and over 300,000km... I recently had it out to replace the rattling DMF (lots of warning) and there was about 80-85% of it left, so I reinstalled it. Works just like it did before - no slip. Just the very occaisional take-up low rpm shudder which is perfectly livable and mitigated by just a little more fuel on take-off in first.

Everyone here trying to save a few bucks and hope their 228mm is the one that's not gonna slip...

How much is your time worth?
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
I certainly didn't go cheap when I went with the 240mm Whitbread clutch masters set up (fx300 I think). Over 1200 for a clutch kit that didn't make it a full year. I got a little bit of a deal on it as I traded out a some new Husqvarna Chainsaw parts to Matt at my dealer cost so he hooked me up with the clutch kit/tune and stainess clutch line prices.

I went with the south bend as I traded a local guy my burn up clutch masters pos and flywheel for the south bend set up. I de-winterize and pre launch service big boats every spring to fund my boating habit. Thanks to clutch masters a passat in service position was taking up my bay space for nearly a month. I needed my bay back immediately. I didn't have time to wait on a clutch kit from UK. Speaking of which, does darkside have a NA based location or are they also/only based in UK/Europe?

Great heavy single mass flywheel design so you could use your stock starter and no spacer.

I have a spare new 228 1.8t clutch and pressure plate. I'll likely send it off to South bend along with my flywheel to be turned. With my bhw 4 runner set to be done in 6 to 9 months I don't plan on daily driving the passat for 2 more years. If my kid gets it for his first car or the little lady decides she wants it then it will go back to an automatic. If not it will be storage for BHW spares.

And my time is worth 125 an hour. More if I can't drink a few beers while I'm under a hood.
 
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