Help requested in valuing this 2005 Passat Wagon

[kiva822]

Hi folks

We have been looking for a 2003 jetta wagon but became interested the 2005 Passat. From what I read, it's a bit safer (traction control, crash ratings) than the '03 jetta and, as we all know, has a bit more room

Anyway, I am looking at one and am having a hard time figuring what it might be worth. The seller is aware of TDI club (and may even read this)

It has not had the BS upgrade done. In my initial inquiry about the BS, he made sure to talk about others running on the original chain with 200k. From what I gather here, I MUST do this soon, so, given that, is it fair to just take BB and subtract the BS repair?

With 59k on it, it seems a curious time to sell. Is there *any* chance of a dealer doing the BS job, now or in the future? he says he has an extended warranty that he is paying $200/mo on...have no idea what that's about or if it is transferrable. Seems pretty steep..

He is the 2nd owner and can confirm proper oil usage.

Also, would I be better off finding one with 100-125k, getting it cheaper, and having the work done on that one?

any and all suggestions appreciated.

Also, as a side note, we may be able to get a 2005 L.L. Bean Outback....anybody want to comment on that car vs. the 2005 passat wagon TDI? Just MPG difference...or more in reliability and safety?

kiva

 

[ScottW]

He deleted his ad...after reading your inquiry? What was he asking for it? Wagon or sedan?

To answer one of your questions, yes there is a chance at having the dealer perform the BS operation. Depends on manufacturing date, mileage, and if there is apparent noise in the front lower cavity of the engine.

 

[kiva822]

hmmmm....

He deleted his ad...after reading your inquiry? What was he asking for it? Wagon or sedan?

To answer one of your questions, yes there is a chance at having the dealer perform the BS operation. Depends on manufacturing date, mileage, and if there is apparent noise in the front lower cavity of the engine.

hmmm.....hope it was kosher for me to talk about it here. I would think so, wouldn't it? He seemed like a really nice guy and knowledgeable.

Anyway, it was a wagon. 2005 w/ 59k. Bluebook for $16,500.


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thoughts? It would help me for future ones...

 

[tditom]

if you can afford it, i'd go with the 59K mi over twice that. i have no idea what a reasonable price would be. i'd check the listings here, going back a year.

from everything i've read by the gurus here, its only a matter of time before you need the BS done. i'd factor that into your offer.

 

[kiva822]

if you can afford it, i'd go with the 59K mi over twice that. i have no idea what a reasonable price would be. i'd check the listings here, going back a year.

from everything i've read by the gurus here, its only a matter of time before you need the BS done. i'd factor that into your offer.

thanks. We could afford it, so would like to get a lower mileage one.

Do I just take blue book and knock $2k off for the BS?

 

[tditom]

I wish i could help you with pricing. i'm not sure that blue book numbers apply. $2K sounds right for the BS job, tho.

here is a good shopping tool, if you are willing to look nationwide:
http://www2.jaxed.com/cgi-bin/mash.cgi?cat=cp&itm=vw+passat&loc=&fil=tdi&ys=2004&ye=2005&ps=&pe=&pgs=200&submit=++++go++++

p.s.- another help: http://foobert.com/carhunt.html

 

[tditom]

re. your query about subaru vs VW.
safety and reliability would probably be equivalent.

dealership support- generally speaking, i don't know if you could expect worse than VW. there are some exceptions, tho.

 

[johnboy00]

My two cents:

First, Don't ever post a link to an ad here. Although it probably had no effect on this sale, since the ad disappeared within 4 hrs of your first post and at night, posting an actual ad can make a reasonably or lower priced vehicle disappear to another buyer. Post only the vehicles details without any information about the location.

Second, Do your research and know what you want to pay. Wagons are rare and can be tough to find. A vehicles value is highly dependent on what you are willing to pay for it. Without the BS work some might want to discount by $3k, but you have to realize that doing that might never get you in the seat of one of these. So the question is how bad do you want/need it? For instance, If this vehicle would save you $200/month in fuel and it takes you a year to find one, you'll waste $2400 to get a $3k discount.

Finally, be ready to bite the bullet and make an offer quickly. This is especially true if the price seems fair. Make it contingent on an inspection and find someone local to inspect it if necessary. In most areas of the country, you can find a member here that will do that for around $50 That is money well spent even if the deal falls through.


Good luck

 

[kiva822]

My two cents:

First, Don't ever post a link to an ad here. Although it probably had no effect on this sale, since the ad disappeared within 4 hrs of your first post and at night, posting an actual ad can make a reasonably or lower priced vehicle disappear to another buyer. Post only the vehicles details without any information about the location.

Second, Do your research and know what you want to pay. Wagons are rare and can be tough to find. A vehicles value is highly dependent on what you are willing to pay for it. Without the BS work some might want to discount by $3k, but you have to realize that doing that might never get you in the seat of one of these. So the question is how bad do you want/need it? For instance, If this vehicle would save you $200/month in fuel and it takes you a year to find one, you'll waste $2400 to get a $3k discount.

Finally, be ready to bite the bullet and make an offer quickly. This is especially true if the price seems fair. Make it contingent on an inspection and find someone local to inspect it if necessary. In most areas of the country, you can find a member here that will do that for around $50 That is money well spent even if the deal falls through.


Good luck

thanks for the guidance. I deleted the link in the above posts. I was able to find out that he's just not selling it anymore...loves it too much

I'm just a bit hesitant about overpaying. Read some other threads about people being pissed about paying top dollar, then being pissed bout having to drop $3k into it.

I will continue to read in order to figure out what they are worth.

What is the best method for finding a TDI person to check it out? What forum should I ask that question in? This individual was not in a city with a 'trusted' mechanic from the list...

kiva

 

[johnboy00]

Kiva,

You're way ahead of most people already since you started here before buying. At least you know what you will be up against as far as BS is concerned.

Post in the regional forums to find someone. In general, it won't be trusted mechanic, they are often to busy, but there are likely 100 + members here, who would bend over backwards to help you out for little or no money. Of course, you may need to ask around to confirm someone's suitability to the task.

I had a Chicago area member check out a Golf for me, last year, and I was thoroughly impressed by the write up he sent me. He even took and sent out an oil-sample for me.

 

[kiva822]

Kiva,

You're way ahead of most people already since you started here before buying. At least you know what you will be up against as far as BS is concerned.

Post in the regional forums to find someone. In general, it won't be trusted mechanic, they are often to busy, but there are likely 100 + members here, who would bend over backwards to help you out for little or no money. Of course, you may need to ask around to confirm someone's suitability to the task.

I had a Chicago area member check out a Golf for me, last year, and I was thoroughly impressed by the write up he sent me. He even took and sent out an oil-sample for me.

ok, that really helps. I guess I should further reveal my ignorance and ask why you would want an oil sample?

Also, if he has run bio in it before, is that a problem?

kiva
(matt..i think i'll start signing my real name...kiva was my Malamute

 

[johnboy00]

Especially true for the 2004+ PD engines, but useful for all engines, an oil sample can reveal high metal wear rates indicative of wrong oil usage or possible impending Cam failure. The test is only useful if the oil hasn't been changed recently.

BTW, it is important on 2004+ vehicles that the proper 505.01 oil has been used. Lack of documented oil changes with the correct oil is cause for concern.

 

[ScottW]

In my opinion, the price would have been too high for me. Well over a year ago I paid just about $3000 less for a 2005 wagon with half the mileage from a dealer. The BS had not been done.

If possible, I would always prefer low mileage verse something with over 100K miles even if it is a diesel.

Budget some money for the BS upgrade. I believe these TDI's will be cost effective long term vehicles.

As the economy degrades, vehicle pricing will erode. The used car market is not what it once use to be.

 

[kiva822]

In my opinion, the price would have been too high for me. Well over a year ago I paid just about $3000 less for a 2005 wagon with half the mileage from a dealer. The BS had not been done.

If possible, I would always prefer low mileage verse something with over 100K miles even if it is a diesel.

Budget some money for the BS upgrade. I believe these TDI's will be cost effective long term vehicles.

As the economy degrades, vehicle pricing will erode. The used car market is not what it once use to be.

man, that seems like a smokin' deal. Do you remember what PP blue book was at that time? I've only had the radar up for a week or so on the passat, so we'll see.

 

[deming]

hmmm.....hope it was kosher for me to talk about it here. I would think so, wouldn't it? He seemed like a really nice guy and knowledgeable.

Anyway, it was a wagon. 2005 w/ 59k. Bluebook for $16,500.
-----------
thoughts? It would help me for future ones...

I have an 05 Passat GLS TDI Wagon with 57,000 miles and it has the "real driver" VW extended warranty. Panzer Plate, Zero Start Coolant heater and I have used Motul 5w40 505.01 full synthetic motor oil. A very well maintained and we are the original owners. If I were to sell my car, the price would be $17,000 ish with all the paperwork and that would be with the extended VW warranty. Yes, it will need the balancer shaft update and you will have to use the extended warranty and pay some out of pocket $$ for timing belt etc. These are still very rare cars in wagon form! Hard to find, especially with low miles.

Have you priced out a Jetta TDI sportwagen? No deals there!

The Subaru Outback Wagons---
Nice cars and the Subaru AWD is nice. We have also owned and continue to own the Subaru Wagons, which we use in the winter here in the midwest. Our Passats have NEVER seen a winter! Subaru makes a pretty decent car. The XT Outback Wagon 2005-2009 with the Turbo motor really honks. The Base 2.5 engine is a DOG, unless you get a 5 speed manual, which makes the car somewhat tolerable. Beware, the Outbacks eat gas, because they are AWD. They are well built, reliable, excellent in snow. Some of them are known for popping head gaskets in the high mileage range. Premium fuel requirement for the XT.
Newer OB's have the CVT transmission. Poor resale compared to the Passat TDI.
Timing belt motor just like the Passat.

Gas mileage is tough compared to the Passat TDI Wagon. A typical Subaru Wagon will see low 20's for fuel economy. The Passat TDI wagon is a 36-42 mpg car. Both have excellent crash tests. Another choice is the AWD Ford Edge or the Honda Pilot for AWD and utilitarian purpose.

Thanks
Deming

 

[kiva822]

I have an 05 Passat GLS TDI Wagon with 57,000 miles and it has the "real driver" VW extended warranty. Panzer Plate, Zero Start Coolant heater and I have used Motul 5w40 505.01 full synthetic motor oil. A very well maintained and we are the original owners. If I were to sell my car, the price would be $17,000 ish with all the paperwork and that would be with the extended VW warranty. Yes, it will need the balancer shaft update and you will have to use the extended warranty and pay some out of pocket $$ for timing belt etc. These are still very rare cars in wagon form! Hard to find, especially with low miles.

Have you priced out a Jetta TDI sportwagen? No deals there!

The Subaru Outback Wagons---
Nice cars and the Subaru AWD is nice. We have also owned and continue to own the Subaru Wagons, which we use in the winter here in the midwest. Our Passats have NEVER seen a winter! Subaru makes a pretty decent car. The XT Outback Wagon 2005-2009 with the Turbo motor really honks. The Base 2.5 engine is a DOG, unless you get a 5 speed manual, which makes the car somewhat tolerable. Beware, the Outbacks eat gas, because they are AWD. They are well built, reliable, excellent in snow. Some of them are known for popping head gaskets in the high mileage range. Premium fuel requirement for the XT.
Newer OB's have the CVT transmission. Poor resale compared to the Passat TDI.
Timing belt motor just like the Passat.

Gas mileage is tough compared to the Passat TDI Wagon. A typical Subaru Wagon will see low 20's for fuel economy. The Passat TDI wagon is a 36-42 mpg car. Both have excellent crash tests. Another choice is the AWD Ford Edge or the Honda Pilot for AWD and utilitarian purpose.

Thanks
Deming

The outback we could get is the 3.0 LL Bean model. Total gas hog. The deal would be really good, which would buy a lot of gas (we could get it for $10k vs. $15k or so for the Passat). Right now, though, I drive a POS Nissan pickup and I wouldn't mind upgrading...

thanks for your feedback...very helpful...

 

[kiva822]

I wish i could help you with pricing. i'm not sure that blue book numbers apply. $2K sounds right for the BS job, tho.

here is a good shopping tool, if you are willing to look nationwide:
http://www2.jaxed.com/cgi-bin/mash.cgi?cat=cp&itm=vw+passat&loc=&fil=tdi&ys=2004&ye=2005&ps=&pe=&pgs=200&submit=++++go++++

p.s.- another help: http://foobert.com/carhunt.html

thanks for these, btw..i knew about foobert, but not the other....!

 

[whizznbyu]

Suby's coming out with a flat 4 diesel very soon. Doubt very much if you'll see it in in the US since Big Oil controls how many diesel cars (not trucks)are sold; CEO's bonuses come first priority.

 

[ScottW]

Not really...dealer was originally asking $17,499.99. I paid $13,800 out the door. One owner (yep, one owner, little old man with anally correct oil service records at 5K). Sometimes people become more desperate to sell their vehicles than others.

Also check www.autotrader.com, www.cars.com, and ebay (there are some on there now).

The value of any vehicle depends on what people are willing to pay for it.

man, that seems like a smokin' deal. Do you remember what PP blue book was at that time? I've only had the radar up for a week or so on the passat, so we'll see.

 

[deming]

Cars.com and autotrader.com are great websites.

All depends on condition, service history, miles etc.
TDI Wagons are somewhat more sought after than the sedans and usually fetch a higher price. Be careful, because price is not always the end all be all!

I know people who bought cars simply based on the "good deal" price principle only to have something pop up later. Like a salvage title or previous body damages that had not been disclosed. OR they see three or four service receipts at a dealer and they assume the work and service was top notch. Then a few months after ownership they find a couple of Jiffy Lube receipts tucked under the seat. These are not cheap cars to servie and repair so make sure you have some warranty if at all possible.

If you can find a good privately owned (one owner) TDI and verify everything that would be the ideal. Run a Carfax and an NICB report before you buy. Just know that the Bal Shaft issue will need to eventually be addressed and corrected by someone like MoGolf or Oilhammer.

Read you forums and educate yourself really well before you buy.

 

[kiva822]

Cars.com and autotrader.com are great websites.

All depends on condition, service history, miles etc.
TDI Wagons are somewhat more sought after than the sedans and usually fetch a higher price. Be careful, because price is not always the end all be all!

I know people who bought cars simply based on the "good deal" price principle only to have something pop up later. Like a salvage title or previous body damages that had not been disclosed. OR they see three or four service receipts at a dealer and they assume the work and service was top notch. Then a few months after ownership they find a couple of Jiffy Lube receipts tucked under the seat. These are not cheap cars to servie and repair so make sure you have some warranty if at all possible.

If you can find a good privately owned (one owner) TDI and verify everything that would be the ideal. Run a Carfax and an NICB report before you buy. Just know that the Bal Shaft issue will need to eventually be addressed and corrected by someone like MoGolf or Oilhammer.

Read you forums and educate yourself really well before you buy.

Hi

NICB...National Insurance Crime? What would that report tell me?

Thanks for the assistance. I think I'm getting the hand of how to search for one and what questions to ask. There was one in MI today that was perfect, but I missed it. Sometimes feels like catching wind in a box....at least when it comes to getting a 'good' deal. I could spend 15-17k on one pretty easily..but when you see a couple go for $13k with 50k miles, it makes me stop and want to wait a bit..

So, in the event I do find one from a single owner, private seller, out of my area, is the process usually like this:

(1) make contact and ask typical questions. If answered to satisfaction and the deal is smokin hot, just offer a price.

(2) Agree upon price and then see if somebody can go check it out. Then, make adjustments, if needed, based on inspection.

(3) Buy plane ticket, cash in hand, and go.

Seems like maybe there is a 'make deposit' step or something I'm missing?

the main questions I'm asking each seller are:

a) original owner / 2nd owner, etc.

b) do they have evidence via receipts of proper oil used in the vehicle

c) previous work done and, if applicable, receipts (particularly timing belts)

d) are they aware of the balance shaft issue

e) any warranty work

f) any collision or body work performed

g) clean title?

am I missing something? I figure if the answers to these question are sufficient, it's time to make a deal. Problem is, the only unsold ones I've made contact on yet are $17k who knows...maybe it's just worth close to that to have a solid history..

thanks for your time...

matt

 

[deming]

Matt,

The NICB National Insurance Crime Bureau is a great organization.
Usually they will let you run the VIN for FREE and it would be something I would suggest considering. I.e-- Maybe the car was flooded in the spring floods in North Dakota. The dealer or seller cleaned it up and took it to another state or the auction house in another state and the Title does not show the damage or Flood.

NEVER buy a car without running a CARFAX and the NICB report.
Get and verify service history.
Do not buy a car without driving it and inspecting it VERY carefully.
I never buy anything (CAR or large ticket item) over the phone or Internet site unseen.

If you are not prepared to board a plane or train and go take a personal and careful look at the car you want, then you probably should just buy a new Honda Accord from a Honda dealer and call it a day.

Call them up and talk to the seller. Ask some hard questions.
See if they know the car or if they are completely clueless.
Is this the first TDI they have owned?
If you like what you see and like what your hear then jump on a plane and go see the car. If you have to drop a small credit card deposit then so be it. You can dispute any charges if you need to with your credit card company. If they will not hold the car for a few days for you to come and take a look, then so be it. It was not meant to be.

If they sell it while you are in flight; they better be prepared to refund
some airfare. I.e Work out the transaction as much as possible over
the phone.

CASH is King and get your banker on board.
Direct bank to bank transfers work well.

Do they own the car outight or do they have a Lien to pay off?
Ever involved in any accidents or mishaps?
Who does yopur routine service work?
Have the brakes and tires been replaced?
Did you buy the car new or preowned?
What kind and type of oil was used for the oil changes?

Make sure they used 505.01 oil and can prove it to you!!!!

If they have not been using 505.01 oil then walk or RUN away.

 

[kiva822]

Matt,

The NICB National Insurance Crime Bureau is a great organization.
Usually they will let you run the VIN for FREE and it would be something I would suggest considering. I.e-- Maybe the car was flooded in the spring floods in North Dakota. The dealer or seller cleaned it up and took it to another state or the auction house in another state and the Title does not show the damage or Flood.

NEVER buy a car without running a CARFAX and the NICB report.
Get and verify service history.
Do not buy a car without driving it and inspecting it VERY carefully.
I never buy anything (CAR or large ticket item) over the phone or Internet site unseen.

If you are not prepared to board a plane or train and go take a personal and careful look at the car you want, then you probably should just buy a new Honda Accord from a Honda dealer and call it a day.

Call them up and talk to the seller. Ask some hard questions.
See if they know the car or if they are completely clueless.
Is this the first TDI they have owned?
If you like what you see and like what your hear then jump on a plane and go see the car. If you have to drop a small credit card deposit then so be it. You can dispute any charges if you need to with your credit card company. If they will not hold the car for a few days for you to come and take a look, then so be it. It was not meant to be.

If they sell it while you are in flight; they better be prepared to refund
some airfare. I.e Work out the transaction as much as possible over
the phone.

CASH is King and get your banker on board.
Direct bank to bank transfers work well.

Do they own the car outight or do they have a Lien to pay off?
Ever involved in any accidents or mishaps?
Who does yopur routine service work?
Have the brakes and tires been replaced?
Did you buy the car new or preowned?
What kind and type of oil was used for the oil changes?

Make sure they used 505.01 oil and can prove it to you!!!!

If they have not been using 505.01 oil then walk or RUN away.

thank you. This is hugely helpful. A recent development is that it looks like I'm going to purchase a forum member's Jetta. Original owner, meticulous, etc. I think that, being new to TDI, it is in my best interest to buy something from a dedicated TDIclub member and original owner, rather than risk the unknown. I'm sure I'll make mistakes in the transaction, but they will, hopefully, be minimal. I know it's not fullproof, but I think it helps.

I will be printing out this list for future reference

thanks!!

matt

 

[leicaman]

thank you. This is hugely helpful. A recent development is that it looks like I'm going to purchase a forum member's Jetta. Original owner, meticulous, etc. I think that, being new to TDI, it is in my best interest to buy something from a dedicated TDIclub member and original owner, rather than risk the unknown. I'm sure I'll make mistakes in the transaction, but they will, hopefully, be minimal. I know it's not fullproof, but I think it helps.
I will be printing out this list for future reference
thanks!!
matt

I think you've made a wise decision. I would not buy a used B5.5 unless I knew it had all the right paperwork AND had all the right upgrades done right by a guru. That car you are looking at while nice, might be one gigantic money pit if the sellers fib all over the place on its condition report.

I joined the club before I bought my B5.5 back in 2004 brand new. So yes I have stuck some $ into it, but by knowledge gained from this club, I expect my total ownership experience (except VW's lack of accepting the balance shaft problem) to be first rate. So far it has.

Good luck with your Jetta.

 

[deming]

Good Luck with the JETTA TDI Wagon.

Nice looking little car. I always wanted one with the 1.8T 17" wheels and 5 spd stick.

Welcome to the club and make sure you read up and stay in touch with us.

Deming

 

[PlaneCrazy]

I had a Jetta TDI wagon. Great car. Really miss it; 800 miles to a tank if you nursed it along at 62 mph. My wife rolled it. Walked out without a scratch but the car was totaled, as it traveled over a stump before rolling, which wiped out just about everything underneath the car. If it had stability control, the accident would never have happened.

You can retrofit stability control on some Jettas. Search the forums here. The irony of the accident, was that I was corresponding with a guy on the forum about buying the bits and pieces to do the upgrade, and was hesitating due to the complexity and cost. If you can, do the upgrade.

 

[Smokerr]

thanks for the guidance. I deleted the link in the above posts. I was able to find out that he's just not selling it anymore...loves it too much

I'm just a bit hesitant about overpaying. Read some other threads about people being pissed about paying top dollar, then being pissed bout having to drop $3k into it.

I will continue to read in order to figure out what they are worth.

What is the best method for finding a TDI person to check it out? What forum should I ask that question in? This individual was not in a city with a 'trusted' mechanic from the list...

kiva

Something to be kept in mind. If YOU (you and anyone who is direcly affted by the decision) are happy with the price, then it makes no difference what someone else thinks of it.

Granted, there are realistic limits, so no, you are not going to pay 24k, and you are also not likely to get a pristine bargain and pay 10k for it either.

So, what you are looking at is someting in the 12 to 16K range. Its not about the money in your face, its the long term cost to get there as mentioned, if you spend $2400 waiting for the bargain (which may not be a bargain) then...........

Far better paying the 16k if they won't bargain but the car has a proven oil history, care etc, than getting a bargain at 10k that they lie to you and you find yourself putting in another 4k and still have the other issues to deal with. That all means its in the shop, mistakes can be made.

So, list out the things you need to know (right oil used), glow plug status, boots and or axles replaced, and then be willing to pay the price you can get, not the 10k that everyone wants.

What I can say from personal experience is that no, we did not get the Passat at any kind of discount. Offsetting that we got a good loan rate. So, yes we paid list when others would not have, but it replaced a serious fuel using SUV, and began to make 50 to 60% of the payments on fuel savings alone. And it was and is damned fun to drive and it made a big difference in my outlook on the world, I hated to go anywhere. Now its, shoot, what do you need or want, and I am gone, or come on and we will visit the brother of friend for a bit. I.e., money is a factor, but its not ALL about money.

And I can say that with a bit of effort, it can replace an SUV (wagon).

And if you want a wagon, be prepared to pay a bit more, they are rare and they are in demand because they are more flexible (usable) than a Sedan.

If you find one that fits, have it ready to go and get your money down, you could well miss what works for you long term waiting for that perfect deal based purely on price. Does it happen, yep, but odds are it won't happen to you!

 

[sleze]

Hopefully I am not jinxing myself here but I have 95k with the original balance shaft chain and have had no problems. Just FYI.

 

[daedalus]

I see that Kiva is in CA. Is Harv still in the game out there?

Kiva, if the answer is yes you should contact him. He is apparently well-respected on this forum and may have the car you want.

 

[kiva822]

I see that Kiva is in CA. Is Harv still in the game out there?

Kiva, if the answer is yes you should contact him. He is apparently well-respected on this forum and may have the car you want.

Hi

Not sure who Harv is (username?)...but we ended up with a '03 Jetta Wagon. Very happy! A 2nd TDI doesn't seem in the cards for us, due to our uses, but we really lust after a passat as well...

matt