Help Please Engine randomly stalls

muhibmc

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Location
Toronto, ON
TDI
Previously > 2006 Jetta TDI BRM 5MT [Silver], 2000 Jetta TDI ALH 5MT [Blue] , 2005.5 Jetta BRM DSG [Grey]
ver the past couple of weeks this problem developed.

Car details:
2005.5 VW jetta TDI
377000km
DSG (serviced 5000km ago)
DSG Flywheel replaced 60000km ago >> no unusual noises
New Timing belt+Camshaft kit 9000km ago
Alternator pulley replaced 10000km ago

the engine will randomly stall only when idling regardless of whether it is in Park or Drive. Every time it stalls, im able to start it right back up without hesitation. ocasionally after i start it back up the rpm is a bit higher closer to the 900 mark then returns to its usual +/- 850 once i put it in gear. sometimes the engine with stall a couple of times throughout the day and sometimes it will go days without issue. when the engine is running there is absolutely no loss of power or unusual behavior, it functions as if nothing is wrong.

i have VCDS and it did register a code for G28 engine speed sensor intermittent signal once after i reset it it hasn't reappeared
No other relevant codes for engine or transmission

ive opened up the entire engine wiring harness from just behind the driver side headlight chassis mount @ under the battery tray, up to the cylinder head, looking for any breaks but have found none.

i have the ASV and the EGR valve unplugged to eliminate those as potential issues and also confirmed the egr valve is not stuck open....didnt make a difference.

my timing Torsion was at -1.0 before but now i have it right on the money at 0.0. however i did notice that if i tap the accelerator it momentarily goes to -0.5 but returns to 0.0 once the car is at idle...the stalling still happens

one thing that i noticed in vcds its that the g28 sensor shows the rpm fluctuating between 819-840 rpm at idle only in park/neutral. when its in gear drive/reverse the g28 readings are stable. it still does this after i reset the torision to 0.0

Another thing to note is that the engine did have a slight shake/shudder every couple of seconds at idle in neutral or park only. its absolutely stable in drive, this issue was there since i purchased the car 2 years ago however since i swapped out the fuel filter and intank lift pump the idle is much smoother but after driving with the engine fully warmed up to 90* the idle shake comes and goes, once again only while the transmission is in park/neutral...this is even after i reset the timing to 0.0

to rule out fuel delivery issue i changed out the fuel filter to a new one and 2 nights ago swapped in a new oem lift pump. i can hear it priming the fuel system with the key on and with the engine running with the back seat off i can confirm that it is functioning...stalled twice right after it was installed, first time it stalled was after the first drive when i was pulling up to my driveway (coasting), second time it was idling in park right after the first stalling episode.

im thinking i should change out the g28 but after reading multiple threads its my understanding that the g28 sensor rarely fails. mostly its wiring related.

so where does that leave me?

what is the correct way of testing the wiring harness for faults. do i have to simply just check for continuity from the ecm main connector to the pigtail connector on each sensor to check for any breaks or unusual resistance?

also should be looking for breaks/chaffed wires anywhere else besides the harness that runs across the front of the engine and transmission?
 

newlitemotorist

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Location
Indiana
TDI
06' Jetta TDI dsg, 445,000 miles and counting!
Check your crank position sensor and harness leading to it.

The engines ECU uses the signal from the crank sensor for engine start-up (fuel related? not positive on this) and to determine fuel supply requirements to maintain engine idle speed. If the signal is lost, and the engine is returned to idle speed (zero throttle), the engine will stall since it will not know how much fuel to supply.

If there is a short somewhere within the harness, you will experience sporadic stalling while stopped and/or no starts depending on whether the wires are shorted or not. This could explain why it stalls one time, and seems to be fine the very next time.

A bad or failing lift pump will cause stalling since it does not allow fuel flow from the tank unless it is on or working. If this is failing I would think it should not matter what engine speed you are at for stalling to take place.

I discovered my harness issue with my 05 passat tdi simply by moving the harness around near the cps with the engine running. I found I was able to stall the engine at will with certain movements.

Keep us posted!
 
Last edited:

muhibmc

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Location
Toronto, ON
TDI
Previously > 2006 Jetta TDI BRM 5MT [Silver], 2000 Jetta TDI ALH 5MT [Blue] , 2005.5 Jetta BRM DSG [Grey]
i tried my best to have the engine stall on purpose, with the harness exposed i had a 2nd person sit inside the car with the engine running watching the speedometer looking for any sporadic lights or tachometer movement. while i shook and bent the harness from anywhere i could get my hands on it, even as close to the crank position sensor g28 as possible but absolutely nothing from it not even a unrelated soft code or a hint of damaged wires. the engine ran fine.

what does this mean?
 

newlitemotorist

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Location
Indiana
TDI
06' Jetta TDI dsg, 445,000 miles and counting!
Next thing I would try is testing the cps (g28) sensor. If it shows inconsistent values via vcds I would just change it. That is how my map sensor behaved when it went had.
 

muhibmc

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Location
Toronto, ON
TDI
Previously > 2006 Jetta TDI BRM 5MT [Silver], 2000 Jetta TDI ALH 5MT [Blue] , 2005.5 Jetta BRM DSG [Grey]
does anyone know if i can reach the crank position sensor connector without removing the oil filter housing bracket??

I want to test for continuity at the connector, before i replace the sensor.
 

MyAvocation

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 9, 2004
Location
Hoffman Estates, IL
TDI
2017 Passat SEL TSI
I would forego the CPS continuity test, since (a) you have VCDS and (b) attempted to disrupt it by hand.
Since I don't want to recommend throwing more parts at it, maybe you can swap CPS with a buddy, or get one from the boneyard.
 

muhibmc

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Location
Toronto, ON
TDI
Previously > 2006 Jetta TDI BRM 5MT [Silver], 2000 Jetta TDI ALH 5MT [Blue] , 2005.5 Jetta BRM DSG [Grey]
can anyone provide more information on how i can correctly test the harness/crank position sensor?

since i replaced the lift pump and the fuel filter ive driven it about 300km, it stalled once when at full operating temperature, after a 30min drive i pulled into my drive way and let the car idle in park for about 1 minute then it died. imediately restarted but the idle was higher at about 900rpm. What does this mean?

also today while driving the engine kicked hard as though it lost power for a split second then recovered. i was taking a right turn the transmission downshifted into 2nd followed by a hard kick/stumble then resumed to drive as normal. for the rest of my 20 minute commute no issues through any gears.
 
Last edited:

GreenLantern_TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Location
Iowa
TDI
2015 GOLF SEL
It definetly sounds like a chaffed harness. Remove the entire airbox. Youll see some grounding posts. Clean all your grounds. The engine harness usually chafes by the starter. Remove the protective sheath and start looking for bare or broken wires.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Sounds like a harness problem to me. Any unexplained BRM strangeness anymore that I see gets a new harness, and it seems to fix it every time. I don't even bother to waste the time trying to find the exact "bad" spot in the harness, it just isn't worth the effort and when you are charging the customer for your time you for sure don't want to spend someone else's money chasing your tail when that money could be better spent on a new harness.

They are not all that expensive (as far as harnesses go) and are not all that difficult to replace. I do also replace the coolant flange on the head, as I take it off to do this job (makes it easier) and I replace the tandem pump gasket as I also take that off (again, makes it easier).

You'll also need to remove the two breakaway bolts on the ECU anti-tamper bracket, but this is not too bad to get at as the firewall piece comes out on the A5s so you have plenty of room.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
They look the same to me, and everything gets put back as original. I suppose you could open up the fluting and wrap the wires inside with cloth tape, then put the fluting back on if you are concerned about it not lasting another ~decade as it is.
 

muhibmc

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Location
Toronto, ON
TDI
Previously > 2006 Jetta TDI BRM 5MT [Silver], 2000 Jetta TDI ALH 5MT [Blue] , 2005.5 Jetta BRM DSG [Grey]
@oilhammer

From your experience does the harness chafe occur mostly(or limited to) inside the ribbed protector that runs along the front of the engine.

Or is is common to see damaged wires inside the plastic harness holder bracket that holds multiple harnesses under the battery tray that runs to the back of the engine cabin then up behind the firewall.

Also do you have any insight as to why when the vehicle stalls then when i restart it the rpm at idle begins higher at around 900 and holds even though the engine is full warmed up?

Thanks for helping!
 

muhibmc

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Location
Toronto, ON
TDI
Previously > 2006 Jetta TDI BRM 5MT [Silver], 2000 Jetta TDI ALH 5MT [Blue] , 2005.5 Jetta BRM DSG [Grey]
Since I put in the lift pump there was a total of 4 stalling episodes. I hooped up Vcds tonight. I have the Asv and the egr valve unplug that's why there are related codes in the engine module.

The only code that has me scratching my head is for j527 module- no signal. From what I read this is a major module to power the engine so do I have a lead here??? Take a look below at the scan

VCDS Version: Release 11.11.3
Data version: 20120401

Thursday,10,December,2015,20:41:58:32264

Chassis Type: 1K0
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 1C 25 36 42 44 46 52 56 62 72

VIN: 3VWNT31K06M612376 Mileage: 377600km/234629miles

00-Steering Angle Sensor -- Status: OK 0000
01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: Malfunction 0010
1C-Position Sensing -- Status: Malfunction 0010
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
36-Seat Mem. Drvr -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: Malfunction 0010
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: Malfunction 0010
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 038-906-016-BEW.lbl
Part No SW: 03G 906 016 AC HW: 028 101 223 9
Component: R4 1,9L EDC G000DG 7551
Revision: --H01--- Serial number: VWZ7Z0E1716267
Coding: 0050078
Shop #: WSC 00003 384 00128
VCID: 64CDB249A7409E9

2 Faults Found:
001031 - EGR Potentiometer (G212)
P0407 - 000 - Signal too Low
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 376563 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 00:53:43

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 798 /min
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Lambda: 2.7 %
Mass Air / Rev.: 260.0 mg/str
Mass Air / Rev.: 420.0 mg/str
Bin. Bits: 00000000

008214 - Intake Manifold Flap Position Sensor (Bank 1)
P2016 - 000 - Short to Ground
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 376563 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 00:53:43

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 798 /min
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 14.29 V
Mass Air / Rev.: 420.0 mg/str
Duty Cycle: 95.1 %
Bin. Bits: 00000000

Readiness: 1 2 0 0 1

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 02E-300-0xx.lbl
Part No SW: 02E 300 042 H HW: 02E 927 770 AD
Component: GSG DSG 041 0905
Revision: 04004010 Serial number: 00000501140081
Coding: 0000020
Shop #: WSC 44551 111 44551
VCID: 1835D6B92B888A9

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1K0-907-379-MK70.lbl
Part No: 1K0 907 379 P
Component: ASR FRONT MK70 0105
Coding: 0017025
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 3F875D256E669D1

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 1K0-820-047.lbl
Part No: 1K0 820 047 EG
Component: Climatic PQ35 084 0404
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 6DDBD76D748ADF1

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 3C0-937-049-23-H.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 937 049 C HW: 1K0 937 049 C*
Component: Bordnetz-SG H34 0803
Revision: 00H34000 Serial number: 00000000057601
Coding: A4018E02400418000014000000140000002073035C
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2F670D65BE066D1

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K1 955 119 B Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
Component: Wischer VW350 012 0401
Coding: 00065493
Shop #: WSC 00000

1 Fault Found:
00979 - Lamp for Low Beam; Right (M31)
010 - Open or Short to Plus

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 1K0-909-605.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 909 605 E HW: 1K0 909 605 E
Component: 1T AIRBAG VW8R 024 6300
Revision: 03024000 Serial number: 0037KD01EEF1
Coding: 0012628
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 2E591061B90C649

Part No: 1K0 959 339 B
Component: BF-Gewichtsens. 006 0003

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 1K0-953-549-MY8.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 953 549 AC HW: 1K0 953 549 AC
Component: J0527 010 0045
Coding: 0012041
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 73EFC11512AE091

Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX
Component: E0221 007 0050

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-17.lbl
Part No: 1K0 920 871 D
Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT 3HL 2120
Coding: 0020307
Shop #: WSC 07020 993 56052
VCID: 2B5F19758A1E111

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 1K0-907-530.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 907 530 E HW: 1K0 907 951
Component: Gateway H09 0110
Revision: 09 Serial number: 27001051120485
Coding: 3F7F03400F1002
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 2953E37D80E2031

1 Fault Found:
00483 - Control Module for Auxiliary Air Heater
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100100
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 254
Reset counter: 10
Mileage: 345808 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 21:56:45


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 1C: Position Sensing Labels: 1Kx-919-xxx-1C.lbl
Part No SW: 1K5 919 965 HW: 1K5 919 965
Component: Kompass 002 0001
Revision: 00002000 Serial number: 0371356TNN2M03
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: F8F576398BC8EA9

4 Faults Found:
00466 - Control Module for Steering Column Electronics (J527)
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100100
Fault Priority: 3
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 44
Mileage: 351829 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 11:00:06

01317 - Control Module in Instrument Cluster (J285)
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100100
Fault Priority: 3
Fault Frequency: 2
Reset counter: 48
Time Indication: 0

01299 - Diagnostic Interface for Data Bus (J533)
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100100
Fault Priority: 3
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 48
Time Indication: 0

01316 - ABS Control Module
015 - Cannot Be Tested at this Time - Intermittent - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 10111111
Fault Priority: 3
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 48
Time Indication: 0


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-25.clb
Part No: 1K0 920 871 D
Component: IMMO 3HL 2120
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2B5F19758A1E111

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 36: Seat Mem. Drvr Labels: 3C0-959-760.lbl
Part No SW: 3C0 959 760 A HW: 3C0 959 760 A
Component: Sitzverstellung 0601
Revision: 00002000 Serial number: 00000000000000
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2B5F19758A1E111

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver Labels: 1K0-959-701-MIN2.lbl
Part No: 1K0 959 701 K
Component: Tuer-SG 024 2339
Coding: 0001269
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 36693801415C5C9

2 Faults Found:
00943 - Heated Exterior Mirror; Driver Side (Z4)
012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit
00928 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Driver Side (F220)
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist Labels: 1Kx-909-14x-44.clb
Part No: 1K1 909 144 H
Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl.3 1502
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 30650E19A338729

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 1K0-959-433-MAX.clb
Part No SW: 1K0 959 433 AT HW: 1K0 959 433 AT
Component: KSG PQ35 G2 010 0101
Revision: 00010000 Serial number: 00000000000000
Coding: 1A100F880106083F6D060F0FA0088F0490A540
Shop #: WSC 00066 123 12345
VCID: 820114D1DD14B09

Part No: 1K0 951 605 C
Component: LIN BACKUP HORN H02 1301

Component: NGS n.mounted

Component: IRUE n.mounted

3 Faults Found:
00931 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Rear Right (F223)
003 - Mechanical Failure
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01110011
Fault Priority: 4
Fault Frequency: 3
Reset counter: 91
Mileage: 0 km
Time Indication: 0

00930 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Rear Left (F222)
003 - Mechanical Failure
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01110011
Fault Priority: 4
Fault Frequency: 2
Reset counter: 133
Mileage: 0 km
Time Indication: 0

00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01110010
Fault Priority: 4
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 89
Mileage: 351829 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 10:59:59


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass. Labels: 1K0-959-702-MIN2.lbl
Part No: 1K0 959 702 K
Component: Tuer-SG 024 2339
Coding: 0001269
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 377735054656A51

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio Labels: 1K0-035-1xx-56.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 035 180 A HW: 1K0 035 180 A
Component: Radio DE2 008 0115
Revision: 00008000 Serial number: VWZ4Z7E3026244
Coding: 0042400
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 1E39C0A1C9ACF49

2 Faults Found:
01044 - Control Module Incorrectly Coded
000 - -
01303 - Telephone Transceiver (R36)
004 - No Signal/Communication

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 62: Door, Rear Left Labels: 1K0-959-703-GEN2.lbl
Part No: 1K0 959 703 D
Component: Tuer-SG 021 2416
Coding: 0000144
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 31630B1DA8327B1

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 72: Door, Rear Right Labels: 1K0-959-704-GEN2.lbl
Part No: 1K0 959 704 D
Component: Tuer-SG 021 2416
Coding: 0000144
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 32610411AD34409

No fault code found.

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 

Airplane MD

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2001
Location
Birdsboro, PA
TDI
'06 Jetta pkg 1
So what happened?

I'm having a similar issue and came across you're thread. Did you ever resolve it short of selling the car? I've been trying to solve this VERY intermittent issue on my '06 5 Speed for some time now. Any insights would be greatly appreciated.
 

qedharper

New member
Joined
Aug 22, 2016
Location
Snellville, GA
TDI
2005 Passat TDI
I discovered my harness issue with my 05 passat tdi simply by moving the harness around near the cps with the engine running. I found I was able to stall the engine at will with certain movements.

I know its been a few years, but I am curious as to where specifially you found your harness issue and what you did to fix it for this intermittent stumble and die issue at idle. I too have a 05 Passat TDI and finding like issues with the BHW engine reported in any forum is getting rarer than hen's teeth as time passes. Any help/ reply would be appreciated.
 
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