help me think - tdi replacement?

CruzinMomma

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Location
Georgia
TDI
'14 JSW TDI DSG
Hello TDI friends,

I have a 2014 JSW TDI purchased 4 months ago knowing dieselgate was well underway. I've put 10,000 miles on it. I love it. Purple sparkly heart love it. Until I saw the buy back figures :eek:

Emissions don't scare me. Being forced off the road by the gov't doesn't scare me. But it makes financial sense to consider alternatives. And if I'm considering alternatives, the JSW is a bit compact.

I'm willing to consider alternatives. I'm willing to consider 2 vehicles to fit my multiple driving personalities. I willing to keep my car as is.

My requirements for a vehicle:
A) It looks good with me in it :cool:
B) It's fun to drive :D
C) It's overall cost effective. Whether that means an expensive vehicle that is low on maintenance costs and decent in fuel efficiency or a cheap car that mediocre all around or whatever. I believe in being budget conscious for the long term.
D) It fits 3 car seats and a large dog.

I'm a single mom with 2 car seats and a large dog. Half of the time, it's just the 3 or 4 of us zipping around the state. The other half the time, the kids want to bring a friend along or we have a lengthy road trip planned and need room for a cooler and a dog crate.
I looooove road trips. The JSW has been from north GA to Florida east coast, San Antonio, Nashville, and planned trip to Colorado next month.
I keep my vehicles for about 200,000 miles or until it makes financial sense to trade up.
I either want my dream vehicle that does it all -or- I can see me getting cozy in a GTI or MINI for around town plus a second larger vehicle for carpools or longer road trips.
:confused:

I can tell you what I won't drive: prius or grand caravan or kia.

What should I look at on my short list or aitch-ee-double-hockey-sticks-no list.

EDITED: My decision is in http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=5132791&postcount=26
 
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CruzinMomma

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Location
Georgia
TDI
'14 JSW TDI DSG
PS: A tesla costs more than what I paid for my 4 bedroom all brick house with granite counter-tops. Some day though, I will justify the price. Maybe. For now, a tdi is more cost effective for me than a tesla even if someone handed me one free and clear.
I am mildly envious though!
 

nwdiver

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2015
Location
Texas
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI (sold); 2012 Tesla Model S
PS: A tesla costs more than what I paid for my 4 bedroom all brick house with granite counter-tops. Some day though, I will justify the price. Maybe. For now, a tdi is more cost effective for me than a tesla even if someone handed me one free and clear.
I am mildly envious though!
Yes Teslas are a bit pricey... until the 3 comes out in a couple years at $35k. 'Till then the Volt is a great car. Yes it is A LOT of fun to drive. Off-the-line acceleration is actually a bit more than a Tesla (non performance) due to its lower weight. Can't beat that instant electric torque.

At least go test drive a Volt before you decide... I think you'll be surprised... I was.
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
2 kids and a big dog don't set to well in a car the size of a volt. Road trips would be a thing of the past in a tesla, and it doesn't sound like you're a 1% club member anyway. Tesla has yet to make a profit, you can only go so long throwing money down a hole with no payback.
They're going to have to start making a profit soon or go belly up, like Delorean. Then who takes care of all the high tech gadgetry in the all electric tesla?


Keep the JSW, I fill my Golf up and 7-800 miles later I go back to the station for a refuel. Usually 5-10 days between fill ups . An all electric car requires constant charging.

A volt slightly better because of the gas engine, if you test drive one take the 2 kids with car seats and the dog. I'm bettin you'll stick with the jetta.
 

APT

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2012
Location
Metro Detroit
TDI
2012 Passat SEL
Volt is way smaller than a JSW. Anything bigger will cost you quite a bit more month at your mileage rate. How much (more) are you willing to pay? Why not keep it and pocket the $6-8k?
 

nwdiver

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2015
Location
Texas
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI (sold); 2012 Tesla Model S
2 kids and a big dog don't set to well in a car the size of a volt. Road trips would be a thing of the past in a tesla, and it doesn't sound like you're a 1% club member anyway. Tesla has yet to make a profit, you can only go so long throwing money down a hole with no payback.
They're going to have to start making a profit soon or go belly up, like Delorean. Then who takes care of all the high tech gadgetry in the all electric tesla?
I've done plenty of road trips in my Tesla... I made it to Reno from SE NM in ~2 days. Fast Chargers are everywhere now. Yes... I do charge my car everyday in my driveway... it takes <5s it's a lot more convenient than going to the gas station once a month :)


And last I checked reinvestment isn't a loss... Teslas gross profit margin is ~20% (Nearly twice GMs) Kinda hard to post a profit when you're expanding capacity 10x in 2 years ;) I was lucky enough to get tours of their factory in Fremont and the Gigafactory in Reno. Tesla will be around for a long long time.
 
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Tdijarhead

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Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
Reno to NM, about 1200 miles. Thats a one stop trip for my Golf, for fuel that is. Tesla gets 200 miles per charge? I know I'm being generous here, by about twice. So thats maybe 5-7 (9-12) recharging stops. I've never recharged an electric car, but I've read a supercharger takes about 20 minutes? 7x20 is between 2-3 hours twiddling your thumbs somewhere.

Make me an electric car that goes 3-400 miles between charges. That means I don't have to have it plugged in every moment it sits in my garage or a parking space at work. Bring the price down to the average new car price, currently about 33K, actually less would be great. Make a car that is an all purpose vehicle like the JSW or the Golf. So things like Kids, Dogs & Stuff can be hauled around.

Musk has a very limited clientele. A $70K+ sports car appeals to one group of individuals at this point. The 1% or those who are almost there income wise.
I know supposedly a $35k car is coming, maybe 1-3 years down the road, maybe.
Again it'll be a sports car like vehicle, 2-4 seats, no Kids, Dogs or stuff. Just like the Volt I might add.
 

nwdiver

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2015
Location
Texas
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI (sold); 2012 Tesla Model S
Reno to NM, about 1200 miles. Thats a one stop trip for my Golf, for fuel that is.
I did a lot of those trips when I had my Jetta... my record was 830 miles on a single tank. I much prefer Tesla road trips... looking back it was more torture than convenience. 20 minutes is perfect for a nice break after 3 hours of driving. The car is usually ready before I am.

The Model Y will be a SUV crossover. The 'S' is a very large car... more than enough for kids and a dog. Fully loaded it does cap out >$140k but they can be found for ~$40k.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
So you bought a JSW knowing what was going on with dieselgate. And you were comfortable with what you paid for the car. You must have been, as you decided to buy it. And you like it. A lot.

So at the risk of sounding sarcastic or rude, why does someone dangling a couple or few thousand dollars change all that? Is the amount VW is offering to buy back your car going to change your life in some way? If not, why are you even concerned about it?

If you like the car, keep it. You can decide whether or not to take the fix and the restitution when it's available. If you decide to refuse the fix you can continue to happily drive the car for as long as you want. I am mystified by how people say how much they love their TDIs, but they "have" to sell it back because the offer is too good to pass up. Except very few are not replacing their TDI without getting into another loan. Or they're not getting much money at all after they pay what they owe on their car. I honestly don't get it.
 

CruzinMomma

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Location
Georgia
TDI
'14 JSW TDI DSG
Valid points all around.

I got a screaming deal on my car. The buy back is $15k more than I paid, and I own it free and clear. I do enjoy my TDI and am not personally bothered by the current circumstances. But a $15K increase is worth considering.
I am happy with my car. However, I cannot fit any of the friends that we have recently made at a new school who want to carpool. Does it make financial sense to at least consider my options?

I bought the JSW thinking there would be probably 4 times a year that I would want to rent a larger vehicle for the week. I could keep my JSW and continue to skip the carpool.
I could rent a people mover a few times per year with a chevy volt or a GTI (pocket the cash) and continue to skip the carpool.
I could buy two recent model vehicles for the price of the buyback for my vehicle; but there are some decently efficient people movers on the market so the fuel savings of a compact car for non- car pool and non- dog included trips probably doesn't cover the cost of insurance and maintenance and depreciation on 2 vehicles.
I could use the $15k to cover the cost of more expensive miles in a people mover.

Hmm.

I tend to get analysis paralysis when I have time to consider the options. I had no idea some of the EV hybrids could move. I reckon the ones I tried were all CVT and lame in the torque category.
I need a spreadsheet!
 

CruzinMomma

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Location
Georgia
TDI
'14 JSW TDI DSG
Yes Teslas are a bit pricey... until the 3 comes out in a couple years at $35k. 'Till then the Volt is a great car. Yes it is A LOT of fun to drive. Off-the-line acceleration is actually a bit more than a Tesla (non performance) due to its lower weight. Can't beat that instant electric torque.
At least go test drive a Volt before you decide... I think you'll be surprised... I was.
I saw a tesla today and totally thought of you.
~mildly envious in Georgia
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Or you could have the car fixed, take the minimum $5,100 you'll get, and put that towards a people-mover.
 

CruzinMomma

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Location
Georgia
TDI
'14 JSW TDI DSG
Reno to NM, about 1200 miles. Thats a one stop trip for my Golf, for fuel that is. Tesla gets 200 miles per charge? I know I'm being generous here, by about twice. So thats maybe 5-7 (9-12) recharging stops. I've never recharged an electric car, but I've read a supercharger takes about 20 minutes? 7x20 is between 2-3 hours twiddling your thumbs somewhere.
Agreed. For now. We'll see what the charging stations look like in the future.
For me, I'm about 35 minutes to the nearest supercharger. Or 235 miles from the second nearest station in the direction I mostly travel. Eww. First pitstop before the kids even ask "are we there yet?" just so I can make it to the next one? Meh.

But I am pleased with the direction Tesla is growing.
 

CruzinMomma

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Location
Georgia
TDI
'14 JSW TDI DSG
If we were talking a $2500 payment, I'd skip the modification and keep my fuel efficiency.

The $15,000 got my wheel turning.
 

S2000_guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Location
ohio
TDI
2014 Sportwagen TDI
Isn't the minimum $2,550 for someone who acquired the car after September 18, 2015? I believe the OP stated the purchase was four months ago.
 

CruzinMomma

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Location
Georgia
TDI
'14 JSW TDI DSG
Yup.

So my choices are:
modification plus about $2600 (depending on mileage adjustment)
skip the mod and keep my fuel efficiency
sell back my car and receive $15k more than what I paid (car is free and clear so I drove the car 'for free' plus made $15k)

I'm a professional gambler, er, rather real estate investor. I have a small income and a small budget that fits my frugal lifestyle. I flip a house for cash when I need to make bigger purchases - like a car or vacation.
Def not top 1% here. But I live debt free. Would it make financial sense to pick a bigger different vehicle? I'll let you know when I get my spreadsheet populated. ;)
 
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Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
That is awesome, few people live like that, most are so over spent they cant see straight .Way to go.

The cheapest car is the one youre driving especially if its paid for. That said the new diesels do have some issues that you are probably aware of. No one can make the decision for you, youll have to do what you think is best for your situation.

So NWDIVER can you get close to 200 miles on a single charge? If so then thats almost at what I would consider the magic number. 3-400 miles per charge.
 

nwdiver

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2015
Location
Texas
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI (sold); 2012 Tesla Model S
So NWDIVER can you get close to 200 miles on a single charge? If so then thats almost at what I would consider the magic number. 3-400 miles per charge.
Yes... 200 is easy... 250 if I follow the speed limit. For the 3 or 4 times a year that it's useful.

The other 98% of the time I just enjoy not worrying about side-trips to buy fuel. It gets delivered to my house for free every morning :)
 

CruzinMomma

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Location
Georgia
TDI
'14 JSW TDI DSG
That is awesome, few people live like that, most are so over spent they cant see straight .Way to go.
Thank you. I live comfortably on $2400 a month including scenic road trips. For realz. I can pie chart or bar graph it for you :p Vacations (with lodging and restaurants and entertainment) are extra - I flip a house before planning one of those. We homeschool and I work from home so we can take advantage of killer discounts like Frontier Airlines $1 airfare sales when they come up. :D

I buy my cars at a good price to try to beat depreciation. You better believe I shop around for the best rates on car insurance. I do pay retail for dealer tune-ups. I don't splurge on ice cream, but I do splurge on a fun ride. I speed and use A/C :cool:

So I need to narrow down my vehicle list.
Chevy spark VOLT is on my short list {ohmygoodness; that was a terrible brain glitch. Can you see me sauntering up to a chevy salesman and asking to test drive a spark?
}
I briefly browsed online specs for Murano, Pilot, MDX, CX-9, Highlander. Nothing stood out in a huge way, but maybe I need to read more.
I considered MINI, a beetle, and a GTI. {Wouldn't it be funny if I sold back my JSW and paid cash for a CPO JSW TDI post-mod?? It could happen...}
I was decently happy with my Mazda 5 until they finally did some crash tests on it :eek:

I was impressed with Volvo XC90 until I saw the MSRP. May as well get a Cayenne for that price...
edited I must have been reviewing the XC90 hybrid because the gasser XC90 is actually a decent price! (/ edit)
I need to read up more on the performance and handling of various hybrids now. It didn't occur to me that a TDI is technically a series hybrid. So oomph is possible with the right engine and steering!
A3 e-tron caught my attention. I don't remember why I eliminated it at 3am. Probably lack of info.

Tesla is like bubblegum p.o.r.n for me. I just can't justify it for 2016.
 
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akjdouglass

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2013
Location
Jefferson City, Missouri
TDI
2012 Jetta w/premium (sold to VW); 2014 Jetta Value Edition; 2015 Jetta SEL; 2003 Jetta GL
The buyback makes only makes sense if you planned on replacing the car sometime in the near future, anyway.

If you take the buyback and dump all of that money into another car, you have essentially gained nothing (except maybe a warm fuzzy feeling to be in a "new" car).
In my opinion, unless you buy and sell cars for a profit, "trading up" automobiles usually results in an immeasurable net gain

I may consider taking the buyback if I can find an older TDI that has the potential to give me the service life of my CR TDI for $15,000-$20,000 less than what I will get from VW. That windfall would then be invested elsewhere (real estate, retirement, etc.).

Regardless of what you choose, I encourage you to make sure you gain something more than a swap into another vehicle.
 

CruzinMomma

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Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Location
Georgia
TDI
'14 JSW TDI DSG
Thank you! Valid points.

The JSW is the first car I've bought that I did not intend to drive 200,000 miles or more.
If the circumstances fit, it is my goal to get something bigger in 2-3 to maybe 4 years.

I'm considering "an even swap" for a 2013-2015 7-seater via buyback cash, and keeping it for 200,000 miles. But it would have to be a great vehicle. I want to carpool, but I don't want a minivan.

I'm considering other compact fuel efficient vehicles and pocketing the $15k. I'd be ideally selling for a people mover in 2-3, maybe 4 years.

I'm not just seeing other apples-to-apples vehicles. Which is why I bought the JSW for the next few years. But I did not consider any hybrids when I was shopping this past spring. And it *never* occurred to me that the buyback would be 'profitable'. The only real change in circumstance since I bought the JSW is the frequency that I have to turn other people down for riding with me.
 

CruzinMomma

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Location
Georgia
TDI
'14 JSW TDI DSG
So here's my decision:



2013 XC90 R-Design Platinum
At my current driving pace and local fuel prices, I estimate the Volvo will cost $400 more per year in fuel, but I'm saving $240/yr in insurance costs. Annual tag registration is the same. Maintenance might run a bit more in the Volvo due to the vehicle being a little older. However, I know what to anticipate in depreciation, and I don't have to rent a bigger vehicle several times a year.

It handles well.
A gasser SUV will never be apples to apples to a TDI compact car. But I think we all know there's nothing on the market quite like a JSW.

By the time the buyback cash is in my bank, I basically got the XC90 for free plus $6000 cash back. Net effective price of the XC90 was $6500 if you start with the price I paid for the jetta, subtract cash back, and add cost of the XC90.
 

El Dobro

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Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Location
NJ
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2017 Bolt EV Premier, 2023 Bolt EUV Premier
Just under 29,000mi. on my Volt and even with the smaller battery, I'm running 72% electric and that's because I use it on runs between VA and NJ.
 
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