Help Me Diagnose This Engine Noise!!!!!

mextdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI 1.9, 2012 Passat TDI SE DSG, Previous 2014 Beetle TDi, 2012 Golf TDi DSG
Yes, quite obvious it is the DMF. I had never had an issue like this so I thought it was a belt tensioner. Duh.

I am not confident I can drop a transmission in my driveway, looked at a few videos but it seems it is heavy work. Has anyone done the DMF replacement on a DSG with simpler tools or do I need an engine lift, etc.... Don't have a lift, just two floor jacks.

Also, in the event that I don't do the repair myself, can anyone recommend a shop or individual in the San Antonio/Austin area?
Thanks!
 
Last edited:

banshee365

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Location
FL
TDI
06 Jetta
I’ve only done a couple but I’ve always just done it in the driveway with a jack, jack stands and a little shade tree ingenuity. It’s a pretty easy job if you drop the subframe.
 

mextdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI 1.9, 2012 Passat TDI SE DSG, Previous 2014 Beetle TDi, 2012 Golf TDi DSG
Thanks for the help!

I was very disheartened because I just spent the past two days replacing the timing belt and camshaft, in the Texas heat, ha.

At first I thought it was just the tensioner, duh.

Now it's a lot more expensive to fix and I have to convince myself I can do this.

Do you know what parts I will need other than the DMF? If I drop the subframe how many bolts and such do I need? How do you keep them all aligned?
 

crazyrunner33

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
'10 Golf(bought back)
IDParts has all the bolts and everything needed for the job.

https://www.idparts.com/subframe-bolt-set-a5mk6-p-4655.html

https://www.idparts.com/dsg-flywheel-luk-dmf092-03g105266cg-p-1956.html

Here's some threads on the subject. You can also find a few YouTube videos on it.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=422451

https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=443121

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=229258

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=477709

Personally, I'm going to remove the subframe for the DSG removal. I know it can be done without it, but I'll take the easy route since I don't know the tricks and haven't removed a VW transmission yet. I'll spray paint the corners of the subframe and mark it to help line it back up. Some(gurus on this forum) say you can reuse the subframe bolts, others say replace them.
 
Last edited:

mextdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI 1.9, 2012 Passat TDI SE DSG, Previous 2014 Beetle TDi, 2012 Golf TDi DSG
Thanks a lot for the help!

I also think that spray painting various areas of the subframe and where it joins is a great way to get it all to line up again!

I have been doing some shopping around and found that the 03L105266AK DMF looks just like the 03G105266CG but is newer in design. I found that it was fitted to some mid 2000s Passat TDIs. Would anyone know if it will fit? I found these two items on ebay to see if they match:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SKODA-OCTA...5254799?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144#viTabs_0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/03L105266A...-5G/153259022499?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144
 

crazyrunner33

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
'10 Golf(bought back)
That's a flywheel designed for the common rail engine. It's basically the same as this one. I'm not sure how many revisions have occurred on that part over the last few years. People have made it work on the BRM.

https://www.idparts.com/dsg-flywheel-2009-luk-p-4912.html

Personally, I went with the one designed for our cars. Supposedly, they've revised the flywheel for our cars and that's the one that IDParts sells for the BRM.

Also, I'd recommend not buying a used flywheel. The DMF is a wear item, the springs will wear out eventually. I don't like the idea of having to pull the transmission again in a couple years.
 

backfast61

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 28, 2015
Location
Mechanicsville , VA
TDI
2006 VW Jetta TDI automatic,2006 VW Jetta TDI 5 speed
Just did my 2006. I went to IDPARTS. My 2006 was really pretty simple.
Make sure you have Jack stands .... I replaced the tiny bearing -throw out- that comes with the new LUK flywheel as well on mine. I had a hard time removing the old but a new one does come with the flywhee so I decided to do job 100% correctly. I didn't see much about that on the web....?You can do it if you are mechanically inclined. Hope this helps...Ed
 

mextdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI 1.9, 2012 Passat TDI SE DSG, Previous 2014 Beetle TDi, 2012 Golf TDi DSG
I was wondering about the bearing and whether or not it came with the kit. I think it is called the pilot bearing. I have heard and read that you can get it out by injecting grease or bread into the hole where it fits and then applying pressure. Yes, bread....

I asked chittychittybangbang about the bearing because he usually writes pretty awesome DIYs and I'm waiting for an answer.

I agree that you take a risk installing used parts. I was wondering whether or not the part fit and whether or not I'd be able to find it more affordable than the one specifically for the BRM engine.

I saw that there is an adapter for a jack that has a sort of cradle and ratchet straps so you can attach the transmission to it, I am just not sure I want it to fall down on me, ha.

@Ed, any suggestions or tips? Any parts not mentioned that you used?

Thanks!

Edit: Did some more research into whether or not the newer model, the 03L105266AK or similar, would fit the older BRM engine. It apparently does and works well. As far as differences, the newer model is heavier by .4 lbs and it is 1mm thicker in ring gear. I got the info from these two links:

https://www.myturbodiesel.com/threads/dsg-flywheel-compatibiity.17272/
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=462694
 
Last edited:

backfast61

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 28, 2015
Location
Mechanicsville , VA
TDI
2006 VW Jetta TDI automatic,2006 VW Jetta TDI 5 speed
I had to break out the old bearing. I then cleaned the hole with emory cloth. I put the new bearing in the freezer while I heated up just the hole where the pilot bearing goes with my propane torch. I was very careful to not heat area where the seal is because you could damage the seal. Once I thought it was hot enough-around45 seconds- and had swelled open I got new bearing out of freezer and slid into the hole.You need to be ready to GENTLY tap it in the hole with a socket. At this point you are committed to it being seated in the hole properly. You can ruin the bearing if you beat on it- be gentle!!! I then cooled it down with a wet rag. We used to install bearings this way when I worked maintenance... This worked for me . Just as in all mechanical work don't be too rough because you can damage something ?
 

backfast61

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 28, 2015
Location
Mechanicsville , VA
TDI
2006 VW Jetta TDI automatic,2006 VW Jetta TDI 5 speed
I'm on vacation so I do have time to reply this week...my 2cents worth. I didn't strap the transmission to the jack because of the way you have to maneuver it to get it out.Kind of twisty and turning. The jack I bought from Harbor freight I had to to take transmission off of the jack to get it out from under the car... you may be better to buy the transmission plate that goes in your floor jack. I could not find one locally... I also supported the engine from below with a floor jack with a custom cut 2x4 to support the engine. You must be gentle on the oil pan. Also,
I could not remove the black duct hose that is kind of in the way to see the top bolt holes for the transmission. I could not get the bolt out of the top support for this pipe so I grin and beared it. It would have made the job easier...
 

mextdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI 1.9, 2012 Passat TDI SE DSG, Previous 2014 Beetle TDi, 2012 Golf TDi DSG
Thank you, everyone!

I have to wait to get on this repair because I don't currently have the funds to do it. I am also waiting for IDParts to have a sale, haha.

I am no longer afraid to do this once the time comes. Thanks a lot for the great advice!
 

mextdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI 1.9, 2012 Passat TDI SE DSG, Previous 2014 Beetle TDi, 2012 Golf TDi DSG
Thank you guys again for all the help!
I ended up doing the DSG DMF swap this weekend with the help of a friend, it mostly went smoothly and was not terribly difficult.

Tips:

There is a HIDDEN bolt where the starter goes in that you have to pay attention to, this is there once you remove the starter in the top hole. It is an 18mm bolt I believe.

Don't dawdle about removing the subframe, (just remove it already.......), I did and it was practically hell to remove the transmission with the subframe in. You can remove the subframe easily and once that is done then you have to remove the passenger side control arm, also very easy to do. Help is key in doing this but will save you hours in frustration. You will also have to remove the transmission mount from the transmission itself, four bolts on bracket and three on the mount itself. This will give you even more room to maneuver the transmission out.

I removed the pilot bearing which stays inside the engine. It was a HUGE pain in the butt. Borrowed tool to pull it out from parts store but it just stripped the bearing. I do not recommend you use the tool, you will see it only has two prongs. Had to buy one at Harbor Freight with three prongs and it sort of worked but would not fit into the hole initially without a lot of work. I recommend you get the right size VW-specific tool if you are going to replace this.

Also, perfect time to replace the rear main bearing if you are worried about its longevity. I was going to do so but part was expensive and not readily available locally.

It is not a huge job but you definitely will want something to steady the transmission once you are ready to lower it, we used an old transmission floor jack and it was unsteady but it was necessary. You can probably use a normal jack but it will be even more unsteady.

Once you are done with testing everything, I recommend doing a DSG adaptation with your handy VCDS Vagcom. This will ensure the transmission knows the difference in DMFs and such.
 

banshee365

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Location
FL
TDI
06 Jetta
Rear main bearing?

If you’re talking about the rear main seal, it’s a good thing you didn’t touch it. If you were to install a new one without the special tool you may have put it all back together and it may not have ran.
 

auto

Active member
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Location
NJ
TDI
jetta
I'm looking also at replacing my flywheel.I don't have a lift.How difficult is this job doing off jack stands? Thinking of going back to a standard single mass flywheel too.Any input will be appreciated.
 

mextdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI 1.9, 2012 Passat TDI SE DSG, Previous 2014 Beetle TDi, 2012 Golf TDi DSG
Hi guys!
Soooooo, after replacing the DMF on the transmission last weekend, today, as I was driving, I believe the transmission blew itself up!!!! No idea what happened but the car started missing and running really weird and then would not start at all. I believe that the transmission is toast but need to do more diagnosis. Didn't want to look at it today...

So here is my new question: What is the most cost effective step now that my transmission is likely toast. Replace the DSG with a used one (Part numbers, do I need a TDI exclusive DSG transmission? Just put a TDI DMF on it?)? Replace the DSG and go manual (Part numbers? Cost? Feasability?)? Get the DSG rebuilt or rebuild it myself?

What do you guys think????? Any and all input much appreciated!!!!

@auto I did the flywheel installation and such without a lift. I used jackstands and two jacks but one was a transmission jack, it gives you a lot more safety and control. I recommend you get a transmission jack or transmission adapter for the jack and I recommend you get some help since it can be tricky. I had some help and it made a BIG difference.
 

auto

Active member
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Location
NJ
TDI
jetta
How does running weird and not starting translate to a transmission? You put a Dual mass back in? Did you pull the sub frame?
 

mextdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI 1.9, 2012 Passat TDI SE DSG, Previous 2014 Beetle TDi, 2012 Golf TDi DSG
I did put in a DMF back in there. Car was running weird, only new thing is the DMF, maybe that let go or got loose or something. Need to do some more diagnostics but there was no loud banging or anything the car just wouldn’t accelerate and sort of limped to a stop. Had it towed and haven’t touched it yet.
 

mextdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI 1.9, 2012 Passat TDI SE DSG, Previous 2014 Beetle TDi, 2012 Golf TDi DSG
Sooooooo.... I did a bit of digging around today.
I think the engine blew, have no idea how. Maybe something to do with the recent major service I did on the camshaft and timing belt and such as I detailed on a different post.

I got the car up on jackstands, tried to turn the engine by hand and I can't move it, doesn't matter if the transmission is in neutral or park, etc... I tried the starter, no dice. I tried turning the engine counterclockwise and it does turn but doesn't go more than about a full revolution. When going clockwise, it just goes until the initial point where it won't turn anymore.

Now the issue is.... Do I need a new engine? New head? Reman the head? Scrap the car? Etc.... Etc... Etc.....
 

auto

Active member
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Location
NJ
TDI
jetta
Sorry to hear it.What do you do? I don't know what a 06 jetta is worth,but some times it's better to fold. Don't sink more money than what the car is worth.
 

mextdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI 1.9, 2012 Passat TDI SE DSG, Previous 2014 Beetle TDi, 2012 Golf TDi DSG
Thanks for the sympathy. This Jetta has been a HUGE headache and I want to get rid of it now but if I give it a few days I'm sure I will figure it out. I am stuck on the idea that the DMF broke or got loose or something because that is the only 'NEW' addition and it was running good before after I did the cam and timing belt.

We'll see if someone can chime in whether or not the DMF can cause the engine to lock up like this.

Cheers!

UPDATE 8-4-2019

Things keep getting BETTER and BETTER!!!! NOT!

I decided to do more checking around and more inspecting today. I removed the cam cover and didn't see anything there, the camshaft looked OK no obvious signs of wear or damage. I took another look at the timing belt and noticed it was missing a whole bunch of teeth!! They got sheared off, probably after the engine locked up. So obviously, valve on piston for sure, just have to figure out what caused the engine to lock up as such. What a huge PITA. I am thinking a new engine????? Or scrap the car and walk away.

Sucks because I had just done the new camshaft and timing belt service.

Does anyone have a BRM engine they like to see go to a good home?
 
Last edited:

crazyrunner33

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
'10 Golf(bought back)
Pull the head and have a look, look at the pistons and rotate the engine. It's not that difficult to pull the head, I took mine off with the turbo still attached. There's likely some piston damage, but a chance that it's not the case. A rebuilt complete head costs around 700.

Whole used engines are going for around 900-1300 dollars.
 
Top