Help ! Injector Pump Seal Leaks

[tditom]

I replaced the head seal on my B4, and can't get it to start. There is no high pressure from the pump, as evidenced by no fuel shooting out of the open injector lines. (I have primed the pump with a Mighty Vac).

I tackled the Passat after doing the Golf. The Golf went flawlessly following the dieselgeek procedure. The head on the Passat definitely felt "looser" (more side to side play) then the Golf. I'm afraid something may have come loose during the procedure. I've pulled the IQ section off to replace that seal too. Is there any way of verifying that things are in order by just looking into the pump body with the IQ section off? Is there anything to check for visually on the pump shaft? I don't want to pull the pump off the car unless I absolutely have to.

Thanks for any help.

 

[Ray_G]

When doing the Diesel Geek procedure if you pull the pump head out too far internal pieces will fall out of place. it happened to me one time using their supplied kit. I don't do them that way anymore. I almost got to buy a pump once because of it (fortunately I found the out of place part before starting). The link in my signature has a how-to on the pump head. It has some pictures that may help. If you pull the whole top off you might be able to see if anything is loose or out of place. If it is and you turned the car over you could have some damage to the pump.

 

[tditom]

Thanks for responding, Ray.

How did you notice something out of place before starting? I didn't hear any ugly noises when I tried starting- just no high pressure. Would you expect to hear something strange if something was out of whack?

I have downloaded your how-to (thanks for doing that for us). Looking into the quantity adjuster hole, and comparing mine to the photos, nothing looks different. I've drained all the fuel out and do not see anything on the bottom that would indicate anything out of place (I looked for a shim). I'm thinking of turning the motor over by hand to see that everything is moving inside the pump. Any thoughts on that?

 

[Ray_G]

Yes, that is how I found the shim out of place. When I reseal a pump I turn it over by hand before I put it on the car, or if I did the Diesel Geek procedure I pulled the timing belt and turned the pump by hand. The one that I had the trouble with doing the Diesel Geek procedure I found this way, the timing shim had popped out of place, and the pump would not turn very far. No damage to the pump, but if I would have turned it by the starter it would have been the end.
If it turns over freely (well as freely as you can get, hard, then easy) and there is nothing out of place then I wonder if you actually got it primed good enough and turned it long enough to get the fuel to the injectors? Did you loosen the nuts on the injectors and watched while you turned the motor over to see if fuel squirted out around the nuts?
Ray

 

[tditom]

It was fully primed- I pulled a solid column of fuel out of the return line. I loosened the nuts at the injectors and no fuel is coming out there.

Do you think I would able to see the shim inside the "bowl" if it did slip out?

 

[Ray_G]

It is not a small piece at all, it is maybe 1/8 inch thick and about 1/2 inch or so in diameter from memory. I would think you could see it. But a stupid question, did you plug all the wiring back in? Are all the connectors snapped on tight? Are you getting voltage to the shut off solenoid? I did have someone PM me with a pump problem like that after they did the seals and they did not have one of the connectors on all the way.
Ray

 

[tditom]

It is not a small piece at all, it is maybe 1/8 inch thick and about 1/2 inch or so in diameter from memory. I would think you could see it. But a stupid question, did you plug all the wiring back in? Are all the connectors snapped on tight?
yeah- both connectors
Are you getting voltage to the shut off solenoid?
yes- I took it out and grounded the case against the engine while someone else turned the ignition key and saw it actuate. One question though- is it common for the plunger and spring to come all the way out when you remove this part?
I did have someone PM me with a pump problem like that after they did the seals and they did not have one of the connectors on all the way.
Ray

thanks again for your help

 

[PSeyle]

Does a person have to check the IQ with a Vag-Com BEFORE & after replacing all the seals in the IP? I mean if you install new seals, scribe and realign as mentioned, then hammer mod with the Vag-Com, wouldn't that be good enough?

Does it really matter what the BEFORE IQ is if Vag-Com has an acceptable range that we are trying to meet?

 

[tditom]

an update to my problems

I found that the spacer between the cam plate and pump shaft had been shattered. Evidently the spacer had slipped out when I pulled the pump head partially out to replace the large O-ring. When I tried to subsequently start the engine, the cam plate hammered it. This spacer is a precision part. There are about 30 sizes to choose from. Mine measured to be 2.15mm, and the parts list offered 2.14 and 2.16mm . This was a special order part from my Bosch dealer. About $12 shipped.

The real challenge was trying to install the pump head with the pump body still attached to the engine. On my first attempt, I did not have things lined up correctly and the spring base plate snapped in two when I tightened up the pump head screws . I had to wait for that to be ordered. About $14 shipped.

This past weekend I finally got a chance to work on this and was able to get the pump head assembly installed without removing the IP from the engine. A few tweaks to the IQ adjustment and its running like it was before, and leak free. BTW, dried diesel is a bee-ahtch to clean off. Brake cleaner is about the only thing that works.

 

[Warthog]

tditom, you really got lucky. When I did the pump-head O-ring and my 96 Passat wouldn't start afterwards, I discovered the pump shaft was snapped. Got the pump rebuilt by the shop in Oregon...
I wonder if the pumps from 96-97 might have some generic problems. I saved the broken parts and found an internal flaw in the shaft metal. It apparently failed from fatigue starting at the flaw.
Oh, to address your first question, I wouldn't try to remove the pump head from the body IN the engine compartment: cleanliness is imperative!

 

[tditom]

Warthog-

I agree that cleanliness is very important when it comes to exposing the internals of the pump. But this goes for the bench in your garage as well. I was extremely careful to keep anything from falling into the open pump. It can be done if you are careful.

Re. your shaft failing because of an internal flaw: how old was the car when you did the o-ring? how many miles? It seems strange that the flaw was only revealed after you had the pump apart to do the o-ring. I don't think it is any design issue with these pumps. The older ones just have more slop than the newer ones and are prone to having things shift out of place when the dieselgeek procedure is performed on them.

I would suggest that anyone who needs to replace the big o-ring on a 96-98 tdi pull the pump head completely off to do it. Follow Ray's procedure.

 

[Joa]

source for complete instructions for replacing all the seals

My fuel pump is leaking pretty badly and I would like to replace all the seals at once.

I can't get to Beowulf's site (listed in this thread several times)... anyone have a better address? Or another source of a writeup?

Does the writeup include instructions on replacing *all* the seals that come with the Bosch kit?

Thanks.

Joa

 

[P2B]

Beowulf's writeup has been reposted here

 

[Joa]

Perfect, thanks!

 

[TonyJetta]

P2B, thanks for posting it in this thread...kinda forgot to do it.

Tony

 

[jstrong]

I've got the same leaking problem with the IP, ( just started) on my 96 Passat, and went to the VW dealer Yesterday to see how bad the damage to repair would be, and it was bad news and worse. There are two different pumps that were used on the 96 Passat depending on VIN #, one was $1100, the other was $3100, just the pump only .
I certianly can't spend 3 to 4K on a repair to a 3-4K car.
The pump still works and runs perfectly, just leaks now at about a drip a second, appearing from the upper and middle case seals. I just purshased my timing belt kit/ water pump, tensioner, to have done shortly, but now its all on hold.
Help,
Jamie in Alabama

 

[48 MPG]

Look at the last sticky in this forum. Do a search for a local guru who might be able to find you an AHU pump and do the install.

 

[jstrong]

How do I search for someone I don't know ? You'll have to excuse my ignorance, this sites new to me.
Jamie

 

[TonyJetta]

Jamie,
There's a link in my signature for 'trusted tdi mechanics.' Give that a search.

Tony

 

[jstrong]

I'm learning, Thanks

 

[Joa]

Just an update... did the seals this weekend and she's leak free. Not much fun (very tedious) but not altogether too difficult if you're careful.

I used Beowulf's writeup, the instructions on dieselgeek.com, and turned the engine over until the drill bit was all the way out (to slightly compress the springs). Even with turning the engine over the springs were still fairly loose so I can see how things could come apart in there if the pump isn't timed. I used the Viton o-ring "kit" from Diesel Geek and it was well worth the money because even though I was using Viton, the ring still wanted to stay stretched until I massaged it around and into the groove with a q-tip. The o-rings that come with the Bosch kit take a set apparently. Plus the DG kit has the bolt in it which IMO is critical to not nuking your pump when you loosen the head. Oh- use a small inspection mirror if you're going to do the o-ring, that way you'll know it's seated properly all the way around to prevent rolling the o-ring.

FWIW I also removed the safety bolt without a special tool (found a right size old socket and tapped it on) and didn't have to use a vacuum pump to prime the pump (opened all the injector lines, did about a dozen starts each for less than 6 seconds, and then let the engine sit for a while). So the whole thing can be done for a little less money if you're on a budget (or just a cheap ass engineer).

One more thing- if you're like me you're wanting a definite "feel" for when the pin goes into the hole in the ring in the IQ portion of the pump. (You probably don't trust that the light goes off in the fridge when you close the door either.) What I did was purposely rotate the ring so the hole was down (no way to engage) and then gently tried to seat the housing so I knew what it felt like when the pin wasn't in the hole. Then when I rotated it back I could feel things fit properly.

Hope any of this helps. Have fun!

Joa

 

[danix]

Anyone have an updated link for beowulf's writeup? The tdiclub server returns an error (perhaps related to the new server?)

 

[P2B]

The tdiclub server returns an error (perhaps related to the new server?)

The tdiclub pics server is still broken at the moment (not just the link for link for beowulf's writeup). I expect any updates will be posted in this thread.

Simon

 

[TonyJetta]

Pic server is back up!

Here's beowulf's reseal how-to.

Tony

 

[JEAN-L]

tdi injection pump leak

Hi
I'm a newbie at this.
I own a B4 wagon. 96
This weekend ,I replaced the top seal on my injector pump.
and it still leak at the middle seal this time !...........
How hard is it to replace the middle seal ?
Is there a different thread or picture to show me how to do it ?
Thank you for any ideal you may have. Jean-L

 

[TonyJetta]

YOu need 2 major tools:
1) Metalnerd tool MN3001
2) VCDS (was vag com)

Follow the link I posted to beowulf's How To.

If you can replace the top cover seal, this one is marginally more difficult. Read through the how-to a couple times before starting the work.

Tony

 

[JEAN-L]

tdi injection pump leak

TONY
Thank you for the advise, that did the job.
Do you know how can I solve my next problem?
I'm loosing power at 65mph going up hill!
Thanks again Jean-L

 

[TonyJetta]

Jean,
You are welcome!

Loss of power...have you scanned for any codes? FYI...there is a link in my signature for low power troubleshooting.

Post back any questions or issues you might have.

Tony

 

[JEAN-L]

Hi Tony
No I haven't scanned for any code!
I was hoping for a direct solution for it.
I will check for a vacuum leak tomorrow
and check your links and postings Jean-L

 

[clannewton]

Hi, I'm new to this forum and I'm afraid I've opened pandora's box by attempting to replace this gaskets without having read beowulf's instructions. I have a 98 jetta tdi A3 AHU and I removed the top and middle part section of the IQ without have marked them. After replacing the gaskets I attempted to adjust the middle section of the IQ in several different positions without success until I eventually burned up the starter. Any Ideas on how to set the middle section so I can at least get the car started? Any recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks