Heating Oil = Diesel?

1001100

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Location
South Side of Hell (NJ)
TDI
2000 Beetle TDi
What would happen if Heating oil was put in the TDi instead? Heating oil prices change faster than the regular pumps, and I could get it delivered to my house in my own above ground tank for less! The DOE classifies it as the same, so what's the difference?

p.s. What is the difference between non-biodiesel grades anyhow?


I am new to the Diesel world, so be gentle.
 

Rexking414

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
02 jetta
Diesel and heating oil are related, but not really the same. Heating oil has no sulfur regulation, so it may be as high as 3000 ppm. Diesel fuel is currently 500ppm sulfur, and is being replaced with ultra-low sulfur diesel, which is only 15 ppm. If you had a old 1.6 diesel with no catalyst or EGR valve. It would be ok, But the New TDI has EGR and catalysts that cause a problem is. Cause see, Home Heating fuel has no Maximum for Sulfur. Which burning alot of sulfur would just ruin clog up your catalyst and EGR. One other thing about home heating fuel is it's alot more dirtier than diesel fuel, if you filter it out, that takes care of that. So my recommendation is if you want to do that, you have to buy a older non-catalyst diesel, the pre-tdi diesel engine. The excess sulfur won't be doing the engine a favor. Um, one thing though, it is against the law to do that, so make sure you don't add like a pump or something by it. But yeah, it's possible. My grandpa used is home fuel for the 85 jettta. HEHE:D . Hope this helps.
 

1001100

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Location
South Side of Hell (NJ)
TDI
2000 Beetle TDi
Just Checking..... I read the link that 40x40 posted (Thanx) and understand the legal aspect. oh...I would NEVER use heating Oil in my tank.....he he he. JK. I will need this car to get to work...I can't afford a problem with the darn thing.
 

rotarykid

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
TDI
1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
In many , most of the southern states red dyed HHO is the same as off road diesel or marine diesel . The only difference from on road is the red dye . NOw in other parts of the US there is significant difference in sulfer and lubrication additives are missing from HHO .

The issue with the sulfer is adding it while using HHO or Off Road or Marine diesel then removing it by switching back to on road ULSD or LSD is swelling & srinking oil ring seals . A few cycles of this and you could have a pump pooring out fuel or other seals fail .

I would never suggest you use one of the alternatives I listed as it is illegal for on road use . But if you are not going to listen and try anyway at least use an additive to stabilize the fuel you are using .
 

1001100

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Location
South Side of Hell (NJ)
TDI
2000 Beetle TDi
No No. I'll Listen alright. I am in the process of spending $1700.00 at the local dealer to get this thing road ready. The Last thing I need is to get to a questionable town off the New Jersey Turnpike, and get stranded.

The $1700.00 BTW is for a 40k/60k service, Safety Check, Timing belt, Water Pump, Oil Change, Filter changes, Belts, a 3rd brakelight fix B/C of water and a second "Non Flip" key to be cut. Expensive, but Piece of Mind is worth it.

The Really disturbing thing here is that the government regulates the amount of sulfur in fuel for the road, but not for the fuel burning in the home when you are sleeping...
 
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rotarykid

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
TDI
1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
IF the government really cared about energy use or clean air lawn mowers would be regulated as they account for much of the summer time smog in our big US cities .

If our governemnt cared about mpgs or polution they would start with the banning of polution spewing , oil wasteing loophole SUVs & pickup trucks . If clean air really mattered the government would pass regulations that would bring loophole vehilces up to car standards . Loophole vehicles currently account for 90 % of our current dirty air issues with on road vehicles .

Our clean air regs are political and really have little if any effect on cleaning up the air . Diesel fuel and lite duty diesel autos are being sacrificed on the alter of the big 3 so they can continue to build loophole vehicles .

The big 3 haven't sold a lite duty diesel in the US since 1986 so the current stritcter emission regs on lite duty diesels cost them nothing , but cost the rest of us Americans all the current high mpg VWs we love .

And I say this for upteenth time , The New Diesel Emission Regs Do Not Clean Up the Air as the less than 10 % sold in the US have no measureable impact on Air Quality !!!!

We the lite duty diesel buyers have been sacrifised to allow the air to look cleaner on paper . In reality we get dirtier air from continued to allowing of loophole to be built and sold in the US !!!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Hey, 76. If you had a local TDI guru help you, that $1700 would have been probably half of that and it would more likely be done right.
 

40X40

Experienced
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Location
Kansas City area, MO
TDI
2013 Passat SEL Premium
I don't know about Jersey... (who really does?)!
But here is a simple trick to find a D2 station..... Look for the fuel
price sign that has 4 lines instead of 3 ....ie:
Reg
mid grade
premium
DIESEL
You can spot the 4th line a lot further than you can read the price.
Buty at least you know they sell diesel!!:) :)
Youse guys may not have signs like that....:D
 

MrMopar

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2003
Location
Bloomington, IL
TDI
none
40X40 said:
I don't know about Jersey... (who really does?)!
But here is a simple trick to find a D2 station..... Look for the fuel
price sign that has 4 lines instead of 3 ....ie:
Reg
mid grade
premium
DIESEL
You can spot the 4th line a lot further than you can read the price.
Buty at least you know they sell diesel!!:) :)
Youse guys may not have signs like that....:D
Around my town, no one has the 3rd line for mid grade. They just show the price for regular, premium, and then sometimes the price of a bag of ice. It's up to the driver to pretty much guess that mid grade will be right in the middle of the price split. Or like stations near my parents house, mid grade is the same price as regular because of ethanol tax subsidies.
 
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whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
1001100 said:
Nice advice. Thanks 40x40.


Ever notice how its free to enter New Jersey, but you have to pay to leave?
Judging by the number of folks I know personally that have moved to Oregon from Jersey, apparently it's worth it.
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
wow. i'd have thought all of the central IL was the same in that respect. Around here it's reg, mid, prem, diesel (if they sell it). I don't count caseys as a fuel station...they just sell reg and mid, no prem or D2.
 

MrMopar

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2003
Location
Bloomington, IL
TDI
none
rotarykid said:
IF the government really cared about energy use or clean air lawn mowers would be regulated as they account for much of the summer time smog in our big US cities .
I remember seeing a TV story this past summer about California implementing catalytic converters for push lawn mowers. If memory serves me correctly, a Senator in whatever state that has a factory that makes a huge number of lawn mower engines was upset that higher prices for lawn mowers (about $30 higher) because of the catalytic converters might cause jobs to be lost on the manufacturing end. This senator wanted a ban on catalytic converters for lawn mowers, but California was really pressing for this. The compromise was that California would get catalytic converters for lawn mowers, but there was a ban on any other state adopting them.

I just googled that and found the article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/24/u...54342ecd705a4a&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
 

Gothmolly

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2005
Location
Providence, RI
TDI
2002 Golf
rotarykid said:
...The New Diesel Emission Regs Do Not Clean Up the Air as the less than 10 % sold in the US have no measureable impact on Air Quality !!!!
So therefore we should burn as dirty a fuel as we can get, because it makes NO difference AT ALL what we burn?
 

rotarykid

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
TDI
1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
Gothmolly said:
So therefore we should burn as dirty a fuel as we can get, because it makes NO difference AT ALL what we burn?
Diesels are already cleaner than any of their gasoline counter parts in CO & CO2 without any changes what soever . The benifits lost that higher mpg vehicles give by our stricter emissions on diesels currently don't give the US cleaner air just takes away high mpg diesels as an option to reduce our countries oil use .

So no I don't believe that we need cleaner diesels at this time as there is less than 1 % of vehicles registered in the US with a diesel under the hood !!!!!!:mad: :mad: :mad: Auto diesel polution is a non-issue issue !!!!!!

What we need are more high mpg diesels with less emissions regs on US auto lots .

Deal with the real polution producers , Loophole vehicles before they fu(k with us long time diesel drivers . My exhaust coming out my pre 91 diesels is already cleaner than any large displacement gasoline powered loophole vehicle .

We don't get cleaner air by passsing rules which end results are the banning of high mpg diesels for sale in the US . !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

rotarykid

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
TDI
1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
This entire issue really piisess me off .

I've done my part over the last 27 years to cut emissions and reduce oil waste by driving high mpg , 40 to 50 mpg diesel powered VW/Audi , Toyota , Nissan , Volvo , just to metion a few of what I have owned and driven .

So forgive me if I get a little ticked off about these stricter emissions regs implimented by CARB & EPA on lite duty diesels while completely ignoring the real poluters , loophole vehicles .
 

kaffine

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Location
Las Vegas
TDI
2006 Jetta manual, 2006 Jetta DSG
40X40 said:
I don't know about Jersey... (who really does?)!
But here is a simple trick to find a D2 station..... Look for the fuel
price sign that has 4 lines instead of 3 ....ie:
Reg
mid grade
premium
DIESEL
You can spot the 4th line a lot further than you can read the price.
Buty at least you know they sell diesel!!:) :)
Youse guys may not have signs like that....:D
That doesn't always work. I've pulled into a fuel station to find out the 4th one listed was propane and not diesel :( . I have also seen a few stations with E85 but no diesel.
 

cmitchell

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2002
Location
Southern Oregon Coast
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS black / black leather
rotarykid said:
The big 3 haven't sold a lite duty diesel in the US since 1986
Uh... I once owned a 1987 Ford Escort diesel. Although the engine was made by Mazda. Nice car... great mileage (always just shy of 50 MPG). It was a might slow though as I recall...
 

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
Saint Paul (ex-San Diego)
TDI
2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red; 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White
1001100 said:
Believe me. I looked. No Dice. Dealership liability I guess. BTW, does anyone know a local guy in Southern NJ? :eek:
TDIClub member Bowlerman is in Medford. That's southern NJ, right?

There's another guy west of Philly, but I can't remember his name right now.
 

wny_pat

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Location
Western New York State
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI
1001100 said:
Believe me. I looked. No Dice. Dealership liability I guess. BTW, does anyone know a local guy in Southern NJ? :eek:
TDI GURUs are not at the dealership. Look at the VAG-Com List at top of page right above the black license plate frame, or in the sticky list in TDI 101.
 
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