Heated seats.......

SFHGolfTDI

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Nov 3, 2003
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2002 Jolf GLS TDI - Reflex Silver (purchased 2011) | Wife's: 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited - Patriot Blue (purchased 2013) | Previously: 2001 Golf GL TDI - Indigo Blue (sold 2005)
:eek: Hahaha. Not necessary, but I got heated seats out of a GTI, and figure I might as well hook them up for occasional trips to cold lands, or on "chilly" mornings (40 something degrees). ;)
 

Got Bearings?

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2001 Golf GLS
So the last few posters were in Santa Monica, CA - Santa Cruz, CA - and North Palm Beach, FL and this is a thread about heated seats???

Must get a lot chillier in North Palm as opposed to Palm Beach.

:eek: Hahaha. Not necessary, but I got heated seats out of a GTI, and figure I might as well hook them up for occasional trips to cold lands, or on "chilly" mornings (40 something degrees). ;)
LOL Our blood is thin here. Below 70* and may seats are on! Not to mention, it feels great on my back and hamstrings after playing ball.
 

kbrenny

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Jul 9, 2008
Location
Sachse, Texas
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2002 Jetta wagon TDI
I have a set of non heated seats I am going to put into my car that had heated seats. I was thinking about aftermarket heating elements.

There are two wires that go from the switches to the seat element.

I am guessing that one wire supplies power to the elements and the other wire is connected to the temp sensor.

Can I install an aftermarket element and use the factory wiring / switches?

Will the lack of a temp sensor cause the switch to not send any, or possibly to little, voltage?

any help would be appreciated.
 

kbrenny

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2002 Jetta wagon TDI
I picked up my non heated seats today so I will be starting this project as soon as I figure out the details.

1. Does the temperature sensor located in the seat send a signal to the switches in the dash?

2. If so is this signal a variable ohm's to ground?

3. If that sensor / wire / signal is not present does the switch stop sending positive power to the heating elements? (I don't remember where but I believe someone posted on vortex that the positive voltage to the heating element drops to a fraction, like .3 , of a volt if the temp sensor signal is not present)

4. If I wanted to use aftermarket heating elements with factory wiring could I just measure the ohms resistance signal from the temp sensor in my existing heated seats. I would do this while the seats are at normal temperature. Then place a resistor to "simulate" the sensor signal to the switch in the dash?

I know I could tear my heated seats apart and re use the heating elements. I have done that once before on my Golf. I don't want to destroy (heating elements are sewn into the cloth) just for the elements when my seats are in great condition.

Anyone who understands the wiring / electrical of the system care to chime in?
 

kbrenny

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2002 Jetta wagon TDI
After some further research on this subject I might have found a solution.

In a thread about repairing non working heated seats someone who had used aftermarket heating elements but kept the factory switches / wiring.

They indicated a 6,8k ohm button style thermistor is basically the same thing as the temp sensor and could be purchased locally from an electronics store or radio shack.

The switches in the dash must see a value from the thermistor or no voltage will be sent to the elements.

A resistor of 8k ohms can be wired in place of the temperature sensor but the end result is a ON / OFF situation with no adjustment with the dial.

If anyone has anymore information please chime in.
 

Nuje

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Not sure if you saw this thread, or if they're still available, but I picked up a pair of VW heated seat elements for $45, including shipping.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=377074

Put them in exactly the seat that you're showing in your pic.

The only issue: because there's only one element per seat (butt element) vs. two in OEM (butt and seatback), dial setting 1= quite warm; setting 2 = burn your ass; setting 3 = fuse blown. You could probably address this by adding the resistors, but after blowing a couple fuses, I just remember to stay at setting #1.
 

kbrenny

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Jul 9, 2008
Location
Sachse, Texas
TDI
2002 Jetta wagon TDI
The upper and lower elements must be connected to each other. If you run just one element the resistance is not correct and the single element will get extremely hot or possibly blow a fuse.

If you were running just an upper element there would be no heat. This is because the lower element has the thermistor (temp sensor) which sends an ohms signal to the switch regulating the heat output. Without the thermistor the switch will not send enough power to the element to produce heat.

From the research I have done here and on vortex the heat is not regulated with amperage or voltage but DC+ pulses which are controlled by the switch depending on the signal from the temp sensor ( thermistor).
 

kbrenny

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2002 Jetta wagon TDI
This morning I took some sample resistance readings at varied temperature from the thermistor (temp sensor).

Here is what I got:
40 c = 3.9k ohm
25 c = 8.6k ohm
0 c = 21k ohm

I spent about 30 minutes on the phone with Mouser Electronics and luckily I got someone who found this interesting and took the time to help me find the correct thermistor.

Here is a link to part number 871-B57164K682J

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/EPCOS/B57164K682J/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv1TUPJeFpwbpz60WYT4SDaUOPWIsT%252bff4%3D

I am not sure if my reading may be off from specifications when new due to age but this thermistor was the closest match they had to the one found in the lower heated seat element.

For those of you with a good element but a bad temp sensor, if you are handy with a soldering iron, this could save you some money. They are less than $1 each.
 

hremus

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Jan 24, 2011
Location
Brasov, Romania
TDI
101 AXR
This morning I took some sample resistance readings at varied temperature from the thermistor (temp sensor).

Here is what I got:
40 c = 3.9k ohm
25 c = 8.6k ohm
0 c = 21k ohm

I spent about 30 minutes on the phone with Mouser Electronics and luckily I got someone who found this interesting and took the time to help me find the correct thermistor.

Here is a link to part number 871-B57164K682J

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...GAEpiMZZMv1TUPJeFpwbpz60WYT4SDaUOPWIsT%2bff4=

I am not sure if my reading may be off from specifications when new due to age but this thermistor was the closest match they had to the one found in the lower heated seat element.

For those of you with a good element but a bad temp sensor, if you are handy with a soldering iron, this could save you some money. They are less than $1 each.
Any NTC thermistor with value between 10K and 15K are good. Usually I use 10K. Is better if thermistor is flat.
 

hremus

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Brasov, Romania
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101 AXR
Yes. I installed a lot of aftermarket heated kits with OEM switches. You do not need all kit, just the heating elements. You could buy just these(they are cheaper). I`ll recomend you to use carbon type element. For 2 seats costs about 50Euro. Some of them includes the thermistor(4 wire). When I started to install aftermarket heated seats in 2007, I used for my car a kits from Waeco. After 4 years the heating elements broke down. I replaced them with carbon type heating element.
For installing , you need to remove the seats from car, remove upholstery, install heating element. From each seat you run 3 wire(heating power, sensor, ground) to the switches.
 

kbrenny

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Sachse, Texas
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2002 Jetta wagon TDI
The elements I already installed (carbon element) only have two wires, but there clearly is some type of sensor woven inside the cloth of the heating element.

any advice?
 

hremus

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If has only 2 wire, there are no sensor inside. What you feel there, is a thermostat. You could remove it, to prevent further problems. Just buy a 10K NTC thermistor for each seat, one pin goes to OEM switch pin 3, and another to ground. Fix it to the heating element with some tape on seating element. Heating element(s) are connected between ground and pin 2 of switch. Pin 1 of switch is ilumination, 6 is ground, 4 is permanent power(30) over fuse 44, and 5 is switched power from fuse 5. PS: All ground cables MUST be connected properly to one ground connection point(one is under the steering wheel). Here is a schematic.
 

SilverGhost

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I'll chime in because my passenger seat heater took a crap. I took the driver element out and transferred it to my Recaros - worked like a charm. But while the element was out I poked and prodded to discover what appears to be 3 thermistors at the rear of the element where the wiring exits the heating element.

My question is this. How well do the seat heaters operate if you only install the one NTC thermistor? Is the warm up and hold cycle different? Better/worse? Just looking for a better answer than buying a $600 seat cover to get the seat heater.

Jason
 

SFHGolfTDI

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2002 Jolf GLS TDI - Reflex Silver (purchased 2011) | Wife's: 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited - Patriot Blue (purchased 2013) | Previously: 2001 Golf GL TDI - Indigo Blue (sold 2005)
I got these part numbers for seat heaters a while back (bottoms I think). I don't think they are too expensive, especially at 1stVWParts and other vendors: J0963555D or 1J0963555E - leather seat heater (1J0963555B, cloth only?). Not sure how much more they are than aftermarket, but plug and play is worth something.
 

kbrenny

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2002 Jetta wagon TDI
prices at 1stvwparts

1J0963555D - 65.88
1J0963555E - 65.88
1J0963555B - 129.56

Aftermarket carbon fiber elements -75.00 shipped for 4 elements (2 seats)

The aftermarket elements I purchased "Fill" the seat area more completely than the oem. They cover almost the entire seat area between the bolsters and are long enough to go all the way from the front edge to the very back on the bottom cusion.
 

kbrenny

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2002 Jetta wagon TDI
If has only 2 wire, there are no sensor inside. What you feel there, is a thermostat. You could remove it, to prevent further problems.
That was one of my options. The only problem is: If the sensor I am feeling is a thermostat and my elements only have 2 wires (+ and -), then the wires connected to the thermostat would have to be connected to each other once the thermostat is removed or the circuit would be open.

Please correct me if I am wrong.
 

kbrenny

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2002 Jetta wagon TDI
I wired it up today.
I used the 6.8k ohm thermistor that I referenced above.
It had the closest ohm readings across a range of temperatures to the factory one found in the seat.
It worked great, on a 30 minute drive with the drivers seat set at 5 it got as hot as I could comfortably desire.

The aftermarket elements heat up much faster than the OEM elements, about half the time.

I am very happy with the end result of this project, it couldn't have turned out any better.
 

SFHGolfTDI

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Can you provide a link to the aftermarket elements you used? Thanks.
 

hremus

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That was one of my options. The only problem is: If the sensor I am feeling is a thermostat and my elements only have 2 wires (+ and -), then the wires connected to the thermostat would have to be connected to each other once the thermostat is removed or the circuit would be open.

Please correct me if I am wrong.
The thermostat is connected in series with the heating element. You must remove it and connect the wires. If you leave it there after a while it will lock into open position, element will not heat up, and you will work again to remove it.
The aftermarket carbon fiber heating element heat up faster, and are more reliable. The carbon wires are connected inside the element in parallel instead of series on the OEM. If one wire broke down the other still working. At OEM if the wire broke , the whole element stop working. In 99% of cases of not functioning the OEM heating seats this is the problem.
 
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kbrenny

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Here are the elements I used:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251043184409?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

In case this thread get old and that link is not available anymore the ebay seller that I got them from is:

affluentsupplies

I already had the elements installed and the cover put back on the seats before I realized that it was a thermostat instead of a thermistor.

If the thermostat fails I will remove it and connect the two wires that went to it. I would have had to remove all the upholstery from the seats to do that now, and until it fails I will just leave everything the way it is.
 

tongsli

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2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
Bumped for Frank

Hi all!

I'd like to have some help about this modification please. (So, excuse me for my english, I'm french ;) )

So,

I have done all the modifications.

I have bought:
- original wiring kit,
- original VW heating system (get from crached car) Bought on ebay,
- 2 originals switchs,

All the building is ok. You can see some pictures about my work on the next pictures.












But I have a problem:
In fact, the heat is working only on the 5th position of the switchs :( And it is less efficient than when I connected heating system directly on car battery)
I think it's because I shouldn't have the thermal sensor... (like sayed by EECSentric) But What/where is it? a little box? or is it into the heating system ?
We can see it on this document http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/517/1305leather_heated_seats.pdf (G59 and G60)

Can someone say me if you have a box? like on this picture (not my kit)? (I think it is an old system)



Thanks a lot for your help :)

Baleyba
It is definitely easier to remove the bottom seat cushion after you remove the black plastic surround. Just go slowly and carefully.
 

hremus

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Brasov, Romania
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The G59/G60 sensors are located in the seating element. This element has 4 wire insted of 2 (the other elements). You can detect witch wirea are by measuring them. The sensor has around 10K-15K, and the element around o few ohms (5-10ohm).
I see in the last picture a box. I ask from witch car you get the elements. If it is a newer model, it coul be a heating seat module. This will not work with Golf4 switches. Just simply remove it. All heating elements must be connected in parallel. From each seat you get 3 wire: sensor, ground, power for heating element.
 

SilverGhost

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The Mk IV doesn't have that relay box. Some of the later (Mk V) have the box, but then they have different switches.

Jason
 

ToddA1

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I wired it up today.
I used the 6.8k ohm thermistor that I referenced above.
So where exactly was the thermistor wired in? I'm not quite following how you solved the elements 2 wire set up, when you were looking for 3 wires.

If the thermostats fail, you'll just remove them and jump the connections together? Thanks.

-Todd
 

kbrenny

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2002 Jetta wagon TDI
I don't remember the colors of the wires but I will try to explain.

There are 4 wires going to the VW factory elements:

power to elements
ground to element
signal wire from thermistor to switch
ground for thermistor

The two grounds both ground to the same point.

I used the 4 factory wires and ran the + and - that went to the factory elements and ran them to the aftermarket elements.

I then ran the signal wire and ground that went to the factory temp sensor and wired them to the thermistor I installed. I installed the thermistor in the same location the factory one was installed, rear center of lower cushion.

The aftermarket elements I used were a 2 wire element setup, and while they also had some type of sensor / thermistor, it was wired into the element itself. I left these in place and my elements still work fine with them in place.

If the sensors / thermistors that came with the elements ever fail I will probably just remove them and connect the wires that were going to them.
 
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