Headliner adhesive that works?

KLXD

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
The foam would give absolutely no protection against sharp edges. The backer board? Maybe.

Would you buy a new car with a bare roof? I doubt it nor with the plain backer.

It is strictly for appearance.
 

Nuje

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Location
Island near Vancouver
TDI
2002 Golf 6MT; 2015 Sportwagen 6MT; 2016 A3 e-tron 6DSG
A little help with sound-deadening and enhanced appearance - those seem like the reasonable raison d'être for headliner.

Having tried a couple times to repair mine on a previous car, I'm at the point where I'd pay to get a pro to deal with it if needed again.
The 3M spray was great, but like someone earlier said, it sticks to the disintegrating foam, so it's like trying to use glue to hold together dust.
 

valvecrusher

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Location
DosCirclos
TDI
'96 Passat, '00 Jetta
WOWW!!
If I whack you in the head with a shovel that is covered in 1/8' of foam, the foam will do little to aid in your comfort.
You guys can go back to metal dashboards, unpadded steering wheels, metal glovebox lids.....for all anyone cares.

If you only got 2.4 inches of swing to that shovel, i would prefer the one with foam on it.
2.4 inches is the distance from the top of my head to the roof in my mk4.



Your full wind up shovel swing, let me ask...........
are you gonna travel 7 feet before your head hits the roof of your car like this ridiculous hyperbole?


Geez, ...
Anyone launch into the air, land completely upside down, caving in the roof and walk it off,
instead of roll everywhere for the rest of your life,
or worse?

I did, and I really appreciated the foam, when i landed on my head.

You are welcome to repeat without the foam overhead, and personally let me know how it worked out for you.


Or we can just get shovels, yours padded and mine not,
and at one pace we could whack each other with a 2.5 inch swing? deal?

LOL
 

KrashDH

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Location
Washington
TDI
2002 Golf
That foam is going to do NOTHING to protect you in a crash. It's not a safety feature. Whoever told you that the foam may have saved you must have been hit in the head with said shovel. I'm not going to get into the details of motocross, mtb, or any other specifically designed helmets that integrate foam and other technologies to reduce head injuries, but the 1/8” headliner foam is useless for that.
 

Nuje

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Location
Island near Vancouver
TDI
2002 Golf 6MT; 2015 Sportwagen 6MT; 2016 A3 e-tron 6DSG
Yeah, the foam might help in a "****!! I bumped my head on the roof" impact. But for making a difference in the event of a potentially life-changing brain injury....it's doing nothing.
 

Nuje

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Location
Island near Vancouver
TDI
2002 Golf 6MT; 2015 Sportwagen 6MT; 2016 A3 e-tron 6DSG
If you only got 2.4 inches of swing to that shovel, i would prefer the one with foam on it.
2.4 inches is the distance from the top of my head to the roof in my mk4.
I crashed on my mountain bike way back in the day wearing one of those early foam-only (no hard shell exterior) helmets. The crash left a pretty good sized dent in the foam. So, just out of curiosity, I took a 16oz. framing hammer and gave it a good swing at the helmet - like driving a 3" nail that's already set, and it made maybe half the depth of dent that the crash did.

If I did the same thing to your head, I'd be in jail, and you'd probably be pretty messed up, even if your head was "protected" by headliner.
If I did the same thing to your head while you were wearing the bike helmet, you'd likely turn around, say, "***?!" and probably knock me on my ass.
 

valvecrusher

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Location
DosCirclos
TDI
'96 Passat, '00 Jetta
Please @KrashDH (lighten up Francis) @Nuje (Calm down, Beavis) describe these crashes you were in

You know, the ones where you impacted the roof?
(cause i've only heard hammers and shovels instead of how yourself or your loved ones hit the roof's interior for whatever reason?)


or even better, how it was almost exactly similar to my case, impacted the roof repeatedly, but with the first initial cave-in impact directly upside down, dropped from say 15 ft airborne being the worst impact?
Subsequent impacts numbering say...about 10-12 times in a barrel roll like in a blockbuster action film?
Because that's when it matters.

Believe me when i say i wish it was either of you speaking from experience instead of me. I really, really mean that, LOL.




And please stop the violent banter*, illustrating attacks with weapons?

Hammers, shovels and helmets are unlikely to be relevant in these crashes, i presume... but not impossible.
(what the hell do these example have in common with automobile safety?)

(example of useless content in this thread)
* If I punched you in the nose, you would need reconstructive surgery. special eyeglasses, a tracheotomy to breath, and a straw to eat out of, but if i punch you in the nose wearing 1/8" padded gloves, you would only need a rag to stop the bleeding?




Go ahead and remove all useless foam backed headliners from your children's/grandchildren's cars RIGHT NOW


I prefer every little bit of help i can get to protect my kids, your kids I'm taking home, my friends your parents/grandparents etc.
EVERY little BIT.


It's maybe only a token gesture but as I was barrel rolling and repeatedly impacting the roof
which was much closer(maybe 6 inches) than before the initial touchdown impact,
being belted in and along for the ride until the end of the ride.


And for every single person in my car, I pray I've done enough and kept safety first enough, and turned forethought into reality, to deliver you to your loved ones on my watch, unharmed.


@Judson If you need any more assistance with repairing your headliner, PM me if you can't find guidance with google with the process. if no one helps you in the forum.


It seems i've awakened the Mongler in a few folks, you know the ones who only came here to argue about how I am unqualified to make opinions, but their unqualified opinion matters more with little or no appropriate actual experience -- because shovels and hammers, and helmets!!

This is my last post in this thread.



Also, @Nuje My friend laid down his motorcycle about 20mph, putting a small scratch in his helmet.....After he cooled his nerves, and called his wife to tell her he was ok, he reluctantly went to the ER. 2 hours of cracking up the ER nurses, and with a slight headache he lost consciousness.
His brain had shifted in the pan, migrated they said 5mm to the left?
He is dead.
Want to see his Memorial thread on F B?


So also, you could be the safest driver, most aware, most careful and convinced you can avoid all BAD crashes forever. There is an LA County Nurse with like 14 crashes out there going 100mph with our name on her plate, and you will never see her coming.


Now the TDIclub member who IS a Automotive Safety Research and Development, Accident Reconstruction, Concept Vehicle Design and Manufacture as a Scientist and Forensic Engineering Expert might have a qualified opinion.
and I will leave all remaining room below this post for his/her/their Perspective and Summation.

My posts are merely my own opinion, and my personal experience. Some of these posts are of someone's opinion without ANY experience of relevance.

But they can hammer you with shovelfuls of ignorance, because they don't like your opinion. See above posts.
 

Nuje

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Location
Island near Vancouver
TDI
2002 Golf 6MT; 2015 Sportwagen 6MT; 2016 A3 e-tron 6DSG
I'm glad you survived your crash - that sounds scary af.
I would suggest (as would the laws of physics) that it was not so much the ⅛" of foam that afforded your head protection, but rather the fibreboard of the headliner and the gap between it and the metal roof of the car. Remove that foam from the equation and very little changes with the impact deceleration, particularly when the foam is ~20yrs old and (as discovered by many, is disintegrating and turning to dust when disturbed).

Also, @Nuje My friend laid down his motorcycle about 20mph, putting a small scratch in his helmet.....After he cooled his nerves, and called his wife to tell her he was ok, he reluctantly went to the ER. 2 hours of cracking up the ER nurses, and with a slight headache he lost consciousness.
His brain had shifted in the pan, migrated they said 5mm to the left?
He is dead.
Want to see his Memorial thread on F B?
My condolences. That's so sad.

@Judson: You want quick? Do it yourself with 3M spray and it'll last a while (weeks, months?), probably have some wrinkles and pockets, but at least it won't be falling down.
You want it good? Same as with applying window tint: You can spend hours and hours working to get it done right and probably still have bubbling in a few weeks or months. Or pay someone who has done hundreds of these and has figured out how to do it so it lasts.
 

JETaah

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jan 18, 2001
Location
mi 48836
TDI
96 B4V, 2005 BEW Beetle, 2005 Jetta Wagon
I have a feeling that if headliners were a safety feature by design as @valvecrusher implied in post #26, they would not be so prone to falling apart and they would be made to withstand much more impact than 1/8" of foam plus backer has to offer. After all, if you are properly strapped in with the seat belt your body should not be able to bounce around for your head to contact the roof. If you roll over and the roof collapses on you I'm not sure that an inch of foam is gonna save your life let alone 1/8" of foam.

And, I don't see it as "no one likes your opinion". I see it as they don't agree with you. That's all.
This discussion is all conjecture as no one has provided a study done on the subject. I did a somewhat brief search on the headliner design regarding it as a safety feature. Nothing came up. If you can find anything maybe we should start a new thread on that.
 
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KLXD

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
I will amend my rhetorical question. Would you buy a new car with uncovered backer board on the roof?

I think the belts are going to protect one's noggin and neck in a roll, not the backer board, certainly not the 1/4" of very soft foam with a layer of fuzz on it.
 
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J_dude

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Location
SK Canada
TDI
2003 1.9l “Jedi”
My vote is for the shag rug, extra rollover protection and it will look... awesome, or something... 😂

Oh and probably more sound dampening too lol
 

pruzink

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2004
Location
Granbury, Texas
TDI
GLS, 2004, silver
The headliner is foam for a specific reason.

When you flip the car, (or wild roll, launch of car, high energy/velocity event, etc)
the headliner provides a 'soft' cushioned depth of material to dampen the impact spike of your crown(top of skull) to the roof.
Get it? It's a HEAD-liner.

Basically, it's a cushion to protect your head, neck and spinal column when impacting the roof during a crash.


I would strongly recommend NOT deleting this safety feature.


I always thought an airbag covering the headliner area would be even better, but I dont' engineer automobile design.
I have been thinking about doing the same thing (removing the headliner & coating it with some type of paint). The headliner & the door cards are made of a pressed cardboard, I can't imagine that very thin layer of foam offering any protection from a head impact. It's isn't like your head would be hitting a really strong solid material without the foam being there. The reason that I would like to eliminate the foam is just because it gets so nasty after the adhesive is sprayed on it (it has the consistency of snot). I found that if you are patient (it takes some time before the xylene really softens the adhesive) to remove the foam/adhesive that you can get the pressed cardboard really clean. I have seen posts from people that painted the headliner with the rubberized truck bed sprays. I was wondering how much the headliner needs to be bent in order to get it out of the car (I have a MK4 sedan Jetta); I would like to use a very hard, non-flexible coating (Rust-Oleum Rocksolid) to paint the headliner after cleaning it. I don't think the rocksolid would look good after bending it much.
 

hskrdu

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Joined
Oct 17, 2003
Location
Maryland and New England
TDI
2003 Golf GLS 4D 5M, 2015 GSW SE 6M
A few notes, since I just removed and had mine recovered:

The headliner provides a notable (but not tremendous) reduction in road noise, as tested using the NIOSH app for measuiring db. At lower speeds, it's not bad, but I wouldn't want to leave it out for the long-term. I've also noticed a difference in the rate at which the interior heats up, but haven't measured it.

The "foam" referred to in discussions above is similar to the foam-backed cloth for many later model VW seats. Perhaps a tiny bit thicker, but with the protection level of a cotton beach towel. As many owners know, after about a decade or so, this foam starts to disintegrate: It can be compressed/crushed with fingertip pressure. I've already offered my suggestion that it provides zero safety factor.

My headliner backing board was cleaned up and finished in less than an afternoon: a series of wire wheels removed all the remaining foam from the backing easily and without harsh chemicals. I wouldn't have minded that part of a DIY, it's the detail of the fabric install by a pro, and the industrial glue that I decided to pay for: the glue is apparently a crazy price per gallon, and uses a heating system during application. Let's hope it lasts half as long as the original.

The headliner backing is far more fragile than the door cards, creases easily, and can tear at the edges if not careful. Removal from a sedan typically goes out (and back in) through a rear door, and will often leave creases in the backing which are hidden by the new covering. For a sense of how much the headliner gets "folded" during sedan removal and install, check some of the how-to videos. It has to remain flexible enough to manipulate through the door. I've only used a rubberized spray (for projects) a few times, and the off-gassing was bad. Others probably have more experience to pick the right type, but keep it in mind when choosing.

We have our own how-to thread from 4loops for anyone who needs it:
 

J_dude

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Location
SK Canada
TDI
2003 1.9l “Jedi”
Good Lord Guys
But don’t you agree? A shag rug headliner definitely is appealing in a lot of ways, not the least of which is protecting your cranium from unnecessary scuffs and scrapes!
Lol

Maybe I should do this to my Rabbit... 🤔
 

U4ick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2014
Location
texas
TDI
2003 jetta tdi
Absolute, #1, best way to R&R a headliner is through the front with the windshield removed.

I did mine in conjunction with a windshield replacement and drove home and back from the windshield shop wearing a full-face motorcycle helmet with all the windows down.

You should have seen some of the looks I got on the way. o_O😄
 

sixmenn

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Location
West Michigan
TDI
2001 VW Jetta TDI manual transmission , 2000 VW Jetta GLS TDI manual transmission
I removed my headliner and replaced the cloth with a faux black leather that I purchased from a local sewing store. I used spray glue to affix it to the molded headliner base. It turned out great.
 

sixmenn

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Location
West Michigan
TDI
2001 VW Jetta TDI manual transmission , 2000 VW Jetta GLS TDI manual transmission
I used 3M spray glue to affix a faux black leather to my headliner. Turned out great
 

intro

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Location
MA
TDI
02 Jetta Wagon
I used 3m 90 on my mk3 back in the day. That stuff is still sticking-removed and kept the headliner when I scrapped the car. The key is to really be generous with it.
 

16vjohn

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Location
Salt Lake City, UT
TDI
EA288 CVCA 6MT
WOWW!!

…..

LOL
This entire post is proof why getting participation trophies as a child are bad.

Anyway…. Same thing happened to my headliner. 20 years seems to be the age limit for that foam. File this is in the same category as mixer flap foam.

Ended up getting a nicer headliner from the junkyard, used an upholstery spot cleaner to clean it up and the shampoo used caused the foam to degrade in the new one 😑. That foam just wasn’t mean to last this long.

Will be recovering the old headliner with flannel or plaid.
 
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