Steve Addy
Top Post Dawg
Yes....they'd have to be, all US bound MK3 cars got glass lenses, Golf, GTI and Jetta. Mk3.5 Cabrio had plastic lenses or perhaps you were thinking of a Mk4? Mk3.5 actually used Mk4 lamps IIRC too...
Steve
Headlight Upgrade for Mk3 Jetta? (fog lights and auxillary)
- Thread starter Rig
- Start date
Steve
Rig
Veteran Member
Alright so these projector lights finally arrived. They are really well built. Glass lenses and everything seals up nicely. 2000% better made than stock.
Each headlight has 2 slots for an H7 bulb and 1 slot for what I assume to be a small daytime running light It's a 194/W5W
With the adpater I have I was able to make them work, however the wiring isn't communicating how I would hope it to. To recap, these headlights have a four prong receiver and I have a three prong power supply.
For lows, one bulb will light up and for highs, the first bulb turns off and the other turns on. The daytime bulb doesn't work at all.
So my question is, do I have have the wrong adapter? Or is there a way for these to function differently by re-wiring something.
For lows i want one bulb on, and for highs I want both bulbs on. It would be nice to get the daytime running light to work but not 100% necessary.
I suppose if nothing else, i could get a brighter bulb for the highs but that seems sad.
Each headlight has 2 slots for an H7 bulb and 1 slot for what I assume to be a small daytime running light It's a 194/W5W
With the adpater I have I was able to make them work, however the wiring isn't communicating how I would hope it to. To recap, these headlights have a four prong receiver and I have a three prong power supply.
For lows, one bulb will light up and for highs, the first bulb turns off and the other turns on. The daytime bulb doesn't work at all.
So my question is, do I have have the wrong adapter? Or is there a way for these to function differently by re-wiring something.
For lows i want one bulb on, and for highs I want both bulbs on. It would be nice to get the daytime running light to work but not 100% necessary.
I suppose if nothing else, i could get a brighter bulb for the highs but that seems sad.
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ToddA1
Top Post Dawg
The city light is the 194. Tie them to your markers and they’ll stay on, but once the headlights are on, you can’t even see them, so it’s a moot point.
Lows are supposed to turn off when highs are on. Pretty sure that’s a worldwide standard. I’m sure theres a way to keep the
lows on with a relay, but it’s actually decreasing your night vision. The additional heat in the housings will also cause the bulbs to fail more often.
Going to higher wattage bulbs may require a new harness with relays. Back in the day, I ran 90/130w H4s in my Rabbits. Even with properly aimed lights on a low car, I was constantly getting flashed…
-Todd
Lows are supposed to turn off when highs are on. Pretty sure that’s a worldwide standard. I’m sure theres a way to keep the
lows on with a relay, but it’s actually decreasing your night vision. The additional heat in the housings will also cause the bulbs to fail more often.
Going to higher wattage bulbs may require a new harness with relays. Back in the day, I ran 90/130w H4s in my Rabbits. Even with properly aimed lights on a low car, I was constantly getting flashed…
-Todd
Rig
Veteran Member
I see. Currently I have some cheap halogen bulbs in there now, so I can see how the headlight behaves stock.
I may try some plug and play H7 LEDs and see what it looks like. something like this: https://www.amazon.com/AUXITO-Upgraded-H7-Headlight-Replacing/dp/B0B883S3V3?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1
On the headlight housing it says "no high wattage bulbs 75-100watts" I assume that means each individual bulb can't be more than 75watts.
A lot of the higher end LEDs with seperate drivers etc, are 80watts.
Here's an example: https://www.amazon.com/AUXITO-H7-Brightness-Replacement-Conversion/dp/B09NXKQW7Z?ref_=ast_sto_dp
I may try some plug and play H7 LEDs and see what it looks like. something like this: https://www.amazon.com/AUXITO-Upgraded-H7-Headlight-Replacing/dp/B0B883S3V3?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1
On the headlight housing it says "no high wattage bulbs 75-100watts" I assume that means each individual bulb can't be more than 75watts.
A lot of the higher end LEDs with seperate drivers etc, are 80watts.
Here's an example: https://www.amazon.com/AUXITO-H7-Brightness-Replacement-Conversion/dp/B09NXKQW7Z?ref_=ast_sto_dp
ToddA1
Top Post Dawg
Rig
Veteran Member
My wife and I rented a 2020 Toyota corolla for a 2k mile trip a couple of years ago. That car's lighting was like a lighthouse compared to a candle when it came to my Jetta. Nobody flashed our lows and the brights were enough to see any dangers a quarter mile away. No surprise deer or animals.
I drove to el paso Texas to drop a friend off at the airport late at night a few weeks ago. I had brand new 60$ halogen bulbs in my stock headlights. My friend asked: "are your lights on?" I said "yeah, and my brights are on"... we could barely see.
I ended up staying the night at a hotel in el paso due to it being too dark and stormy to drive safely back home.
So in a nutshell, I am just trying to get the most brightness possible on my highs while not blinding oncoming traffic with my lows. I want to feel safe driving at night. The basics...
I bought these projectors because I thought they would work better with LED bulbs which seem to offer longer life and more light. The H7 halogen bulbs only offered 150hrs according to the packaging. Seems like a waste of money.
I drove to el paso Texas to drop a friend off at the airport late at night a few weeks ago. I had brand new 60$ halogen bulbs in my stock headlights. My friend asked: "are your lights on?" I said "yeah, and my brights are on"... we could barely see.
I ended up staying the night at a hotel in el paso due to it being too dark and stormy to drive safely back home.
So in a nutshell, I am just trying to get the most brightness possible on my highs while not blinding oncoming traffic with my lows. I want to feel safe driving at night. The basics...
I bought these projectors because I thought they would work better with LED bulbs which seem to offer longer life and more light. The H7 halogen bulbs only offered 150hrs according to the packaging. Seems like a waste of money.
ToddA1
Top Post Dawg
You’re comparing lighting technology which differs by 22 years. Your new lights are also based on technology of yesteryear. Inpro isn’t going back to the drawing board to update their design. Your lights are limited to the technology and optics that are built into the lights, which was why I suggested retrofit, with nonfluted lenses.
I don’t really recall the lighting in Rotbox being all that bad. Are your old lights in decent shape? Are they adjusted properly? Is the glass still smooth or road blasted? Is the AL coating still on the reflectors?
Nowadays, good lighting can be cheap. I‘ve seen Hella auxiliary lighting selling for less than when I was buying it decades ago. If you don’t get the results you want with your new setup, I’d consider looking into some type of auxiliary lighting. Flood, spot, pencil, driving, fog, etc. There are a lot of choices.
On my pickup, I’m running LED headlights, but it’s the entire housing. Lighting is very good, but appearance is pretty bad. I’ve often considered going back to e-codes, only for aesthetics. I’m also running small, cheap LED combo lights as reverse lights. It’s like daylight, when I’m backing up….
-Todd
I don’t really recall the lighting in Rotbox being all that bad. Are your old lights in decent shape? Are they adjusted properly? Is the glass still smooth or road blasted? Is the AL coating still on the reflectors?
Nowadays, good lighting can be cheap. I‘ve seen Hella auxiliary lighting selling for less than when I was buying it decades ago. If you don’t get the results you want with your new setup, I’d consider looking into some type of auxiliary lighting. Flood, spot, pencil, driving, fog, etc. There are a lot of choices.
On my pickup, I’m running LED headlights, but it’s the entire housing. Lighting is very good, but appearance is pretty bad. I’ve often considered going back to e-codes, only for aesthetics. I’m also running small, cheap LED combo lights as reverse lights. It’s like daylight, when I’m backing up….
-Todd
Rig
Veteran Member
I think this is something to consider for sure. I am not opposed to auxilary lights. I currently have some oem style foglights and will see if I can fit any better bulbs in those. One is currently burned out. I can wire additional aux lights to the fog light circuit i would think?
My stock headlights are pretty worn but the lenses and reflectors look fine. No, they are likely not aimed correctly as they are loose but I don't see how that would make enough of a difference to matter in this case. I've messed around with them in the dark and haven't got much better results. Plastic is falling apart to the touch. I had to duct tape the bulbs in.
Rig
Veteran Member
So The mounting brackets on my In-pro projectors are completely different than what I have on my frame.
Did a bit of searching and found that these bracket adapters are available: https://umnitza.com/93-99-vw-mk3-golf-gti-jetta-e-code-headlight-bracket-install-kit.html
So I'm wondering if the mounting brackets on the regular e-codes are the same as the in-pros that I have? Here is a picture of the mounting tabs on my headlights:
If so, I should be able to follow the standard E-code install procedure I'm thinking. Bending upper tabs 45deg, cutting radiator support, etc...
here's a solid writeup that still has uploaded pics.
www.vwvortex.com
Did a bit of searching and found that these bracket adapters are available: https://umnitza.com/93-99-vw-mk3-golf-gti-jetta-e-code-headlight-bracket-install-kit.html
So I'm wondering if the mounting brackets on the regular e-codes are the same as the in-pros that I have? Here is a picture of the mounting tabs on my headlights:
If so, I should be able to follow the standard E-code install procedure I'm thinking. Bending upper tabs 45deg, cutting radiator support, etc...
here's a solid writeup that still has uploaded pics.
DIY Jetta E-code Installation (by Toby Erkson)
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burpod
teh stallionz!!1
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just bend some pipe hanger brackets with whatever bolts/etc you need they will work as well. this is always the problem with these sorts of things
Steve Addy
Top Post Dawg
If they don't install properly as is, I'd assume the standard ecode brackets required for the NA radiator support should work with those inpro projectors.
Steve
Steve
Rig
Veteran Member
Ok sounds like a plan.
On another note, does anyone know what size the fog light bulbs are? Looking to upgrade these to LEDs as one already went out on me.
On another note, does anyone know what size the fog light bulbs are? Looking to upgrade these to LEDs as one already went out on me.
Rig
Veteran Member
I had no idea they were a different mounting system, although I guess I should have made that connection. Definitely panicked when I first tried to install these. 150$ for bulbs, and over 500 for the lights and adapters.
But yeah, it makes sense that anything made in germany will fit the euro spec cars - e-code mounting tabs. Aside from that I've had almost no time to do any car work. I ordered the mounting brackets because I want these to have the best fitment and not be wobbling around or anything.
I did plug in the LEDs I got and they look plenty bright!
But yeah, it makes sense that anything made in germany will fit the euro spec cars - e-code mounting tabs. Aside from that I've had almost no time to do any car work. I ordered the mounting brackets because I want these to have the best fitment and not be wobbling around or anything.
I did plug in the LEDs I got and they look plenty bright!
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Steve Addy
Top Post Dawg
Rig
Veteran Member
So i took apart my lights to confirm what bulb type I have for my fog lights. I was reluctant to do this because it had to be glued in place with silicone since it wasn't a direct fitment. Here a couple pictures:
So apparently this particular housing is an H3.
I wouldn't be opposed to getting a better fog light setup if there is something better than this, let me know.
What is the extra connection (red) for? Is this an optional hookup?
Moving to the future, I want to upgrade these two to LEDs, yellow and I'm considering an LED lightbar that I can wire to the same circuit so I can have it all one switch. Probably 3k as well.
So apparently this particular housing is an H3.
I wouldn't be opposed to getting a better fog light setup if there is something better than this, let me know.
What is the extra connection (red) for? Is this an optional hookup?
Moving to the future, I want to upgrade these two to LEDs, yellow and I'm considering an LED lightbar that I can wire to the same circuit so I can have it all one switch. Probably 3k as well.
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ToddA1
Top Post Dawg
Kinda surprised those lights didn’t just drop in.
You want better lighting, but want yellow….? Seems counterproductive to go warm, when you want to be in the cool range, which mimics daylight… 4.5-5k.
I seriously doubt you’ll get much better lighting, by upgrading the fog lamps.
-Todd
You want better lighting, but want yellow….? Seems counterproductive to go warm, when you want to be in the cool range, which mimics daylight… 4.5-5k.
I seriously doubt you’ll get much better lighting, by upgrading the fog lamps.
-Todd
Rig
Veteran Member
This will be an interesting experiment no doubt. My logic was the warmer color would be better for rain or snow. We will see. the bulbs are $35 so no major loss and will be a good way to test the LEDs and which color I prefer since I have 6k white on the headlights.
Next year I want to rig up a roof rack for carrying tool boxes and I can put some more lights up there if I want.
I want to mount the lightbar on the bumper. If I can find a flush mounted light that would be ideal and be at the same level as the fog lights/turn signals.
Something like this:
Total span on the bumper between the fog lights is 28inches.
Next year I want to rig up a roof rack for carrying tool boxes and I can put some more lights up there if I want.
I want to mount the lightbar on the bumper. If I can find a flush mounted light that would be ideal and be at the same level as the fog lights/turn signals.
Something like this:
Total span on the bumper between the fog lights is 28inches.
ToddA1
Top Post Dawg
There’s a reason OEMs don’t use yellow as the primary lighting color. Yeah, what you’re doing is not your headlights, but you’ve been talking about brighter, upgraded light from the start of the thread, and now you’re purposely considering lighting that will decrease visibility. AFAIK, the only country that did use yellow was France, and I’m not sure if they still do. I suppose do it and see what you think...
Just realized I typed the temperature wrong… you want to be in the 3500-5000K range. K is kelvin, not thousand, in this case.
-Todd
Just realized I typed the temperature wrong… you want to be in the 3500-5000K range. K is kelvin, not thousand, in this case.
-Todd
Rig
Veteran Member
These are the LED fog light bulbs I bought. 3000k
I got these for my low beams:
And these for my hi beams:
Below you can see where I want to mount the light bar(s). Grill is the porch because the plastic clips broke when i tried to remove it. I guess I will ziptie for now.
I got these for my low beams:
And these for my hi beams:
Below you can see where I want to mount the light bar(s). Grill is the porch because the plastic clips broke when i tried to remove it. I guess I will ziptie for now.
jokila
Vendor
5k is the blue white range. I would never go that cool. 4000K is truly a white light in color.
Rig
Veteran Member
The 6000k hi beams I got don't look obnoxiously blue. They are very white, albeit "cool" like these charts indicate. But time will tell. They are yet to be installed and used as a pair on a dark road.
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jokila
Vendor
5000K is blue tinted without a doubt. I would not get close to that temp. From your chart the bulb shows it to be yellowish. That is absurd when in the real world usage from a fixture.
ToddA1
Top Post Dawg
What does that mean?
In the real world, I doubt most people will see a color difference between 4500k and 5000k, especially if they don’t have anything to compare it to. I’d also imagine these temperature scales are achieved with calibrated equipment. In the real world, I’d wager manufacturers are getting their product ratings in the ballpark with an allowable margin of error, rather than having their products lab certified.
I’m using 5000k led shop lights in my garage, and my uncalibrated eyes can’t see any blue. The led headlights I’m using in my truck are rated around 6000k, and there’s definitely blue in them. I’d rather be in the warmer range, but it’s what was available.… it is what it is…
-Todd
Back in the day I had bulbs that were around 6000K. They were fine until I had to drive on a dark (pre-sunrise) rainy morning. The light just disappeared, and I could barely see anything.
I put 3000K bulbs in after that. It was winter, and the visibility was good over all but excellent during snow and rain in the dark. Got pulled over by a rookie state trooper who told me I couldn't have yellow headlights, but he didn't ticket me.
Now I keep the lights at 4500K. Hard to find LEDs at that temp because marketing and idiot consumers, but HIDs are readily available. And HIR halogens are also available that are noticeably--but not jaw-dropping--brighter than standard.
I put 3000K bulbs in after that. It was winter, and the visibility was good over all but excellent during snow and rain in the dark. Got pulled over by a rookie state trooper who told me I couldn't have yellow headlights, but he didn't ticket me.
Now I keep the lights at 4500K. Hard to find LEDs at that temp because marketing and idiot consumers, but HIDs are readily available. And HIR halogens are also available that are noticeably--but not jaw-dropping--brighter than standard.
jokila
Vendor
Yellow light? Heck, that's what incandescent bulbs are.
Rig
Veteran Member
People run all kinds of crazy colors on their trucks here and the cops don't seem to care. But yeah, for LEDs 3k and 6k are the commonly available colors. These things are relatively easy to swap out so if I get pulled over, well then I'll find something else.
Steve Addy
Top Post Dawg
Bear in mind that kelvin rating is talking about the color of the light, not the strength or intensity, that's determined by the wattage.
It has for many years been understood...and common knowledge...that warm light does a better job of cutting through rain or haze / fog etc. Light in the blue spectrum is the hardest to focus on. Find an illuminated blue sign at night and see if you can focus on it...you can't. That's a consequence of the color...blue is a horrible option for headlights and IMO anything in the cooler spectrum beyond 5000k is a waste of time.
Personally, I like the warmer colors, and I run yellow (probably 3000k) headlights (euro H4 with yellow glass balloon) in my B3 Passat and have since 2016. The only downside is they're only 55/60 watt bulbs so they are not as bright as I would like. I have had 80/100's in yellow but those weren't good quality and they went after just a couple years.
People do run different colors in their headlights but certain colors are restricted by law. You can't have red or blue in Iowa, those are reserved for emergency services...in Iowa though amber is allowed for headlights....which is close enough to the yellow I run to be acceptable legally, or apparently so since I've never received a citation for them.
As an aside Hella (and other manufacturers) offer good warm bulbs that do a good job in a variety of weather conditions. Dan Stearns used to have a huge website that talked about such things but a casual look today reveals that he's removed a lot of the information that he used to provide complementary to people online...at any rate, he used to thoroughly explain why warm colors were better, but I guess his stuff is now privy only to his clients.
Steve
EDIT: in case no one mentioned it (I didn't see it in the other posts) the red wire is ground for the fog although I don't remember mine being red, I thought they were typically brown.
It has for many years been understood...and common knowledge...that warm light does a better job of cutting through rain or haze / fog etc. Light in the blue spectrum is the hardest to focus on. Find an illuminated blue sign at night and see if you can focus on it...you can't. That's a consequence of the color...blue is a horrible option for headlights and IMO anything in the cooler spectrum beyond 5000k is a waste of time.
Personally, I like the warmer colors, and I run yellow (probably 3000k) headlights (euro H4 with yellow glass balloon) in my B3 Passat and have since 2016. The only downside is they're only 55/60 watt bulbs so they are not as bright as I would like. I have had 80/100's in yellow but those weren't good quality and they went after just a couple years.
People do run different colors in their headlights but certain colors are restricted by law. You can't have red or blue in Iowa, those are reserved for emergency services...in Iowa though amber is allowed for headlights....which is close enough to the yellow I run to be acceptable legally, or apparently so since I've never received a citation for them.
As an aside Hella (and other manufacturers) offer good warm bulbs that do a good job in a variety of weather conditions. Dan Stearns used to have a huge website that talked about such things but a casual look today reveals that he's removed a lot of the information that he used to provide complementary to people online...at any rate, he used to thoroughly explain why warm colors were better, but I guess his stuff is now privy only to his clients.
Steve
EDIT: in case no one mentioned it (I didn't see it in the other posts) the red wire is ground for the fog although I don't remember mine being red, I thought they were typically brown.
jokila
Vendor
That's my argument against anything past 4000k. When you are in 5000K and above, the blue is annoyingly noticeable and details are not there as well. I don't know if color blindness for some people has any play in the ability to not discern the color variations.
Nowadays, you can go into a person's home where they will have mix matched LED bulbs and they can't tell the color variation. All they know is one is brighter than the other. I don't even think the lumen output is different, just the color.
Nowadays, you can go into a person's home where they will have mix matched LED bulbs and they can't tell the color variation. All they know is one is brighter than the other. I don't even think the lumen output is different, just the color.
Rig
Veteran Member
Yeah, like I said this will be an interesting experiment to see what I prefer. I am pretty set on the LEDs for many reasons but not set on the colors. These projector in-pro lights I have are touted to be a great candidate for LEDs due to the tighter light pattern.
I do know that my stock headlights with halogens are dangerously dim and I am not exagerating. The standard e-codes may have been a fine alternative but there were none available when I was looking (there are now).
Just waiting on the adapter brackets now to install the in-pros.
I do know that my stock headlights with halogens are dangerously dim and I am not exagerating. The standard e-codes may have been a fine alternative but there were none available when I was looking (there are now).
Just waiting on the adapter brackets now to install the in-pros.