Has anyone ever heard of IC-U25?

[DPM]

"Diesel Cleaner, Professional Use"

Simple really. Has anyone ever come across this fuel additive? I was gifted a bottle by the Subaru regional rep to test; apparently it's their dealer-only product for cleansing fuel systems following invasive works (HPFP or Injector replacements).
I'm led to believe it's Japanese-market product but my Google-fu isn't bringing up ANY reference to it.

No brand, no instructional label on the rear, 600ml bottle. I'll try and get a photo online later...

 

[Drivbiwire]

Short of disassembly and ultrasonic cleaning, this stuff never works.

The best way to clean a motor out after installing new injection components is to take it out and run the car hard.

These wishful additives are nothing more than diesel fuel in a bottle with a few extra additives to give credibility to the label.

 

[DPM]

That's not what I asked, Pete.

Right. Odd stuff. Crystal clear yellow/green fluid. Absolutely no hydrocarbon odour, infact it smelled soapy. Ran the car on it for a half-hour (half the bottle) dieselpurge stylee, and after that time, the fluid in the bottle was a grey-brown colour. Most odd.
I'll reserve judgement until I see whether it's had any lasting effect.

 

[Herm TDI]

I thought that u-25 was a German submarine U-25 (S174)

I must have been mistaken

 

[Bob_Fout]

Short of disassembly and ultrasonic cleaning, this stuff never works.

The best way to clean a motor out after installing new injection components is to take it out and run the car hard.

These wishful additives are nothing more than diesel fuel in a bottle with a few extra additives to give credibility to the label.

You've said many times before that Power Service additives work as they are intended. Which is it?

 

[Drivbiwire]

You've said many times before that Power Service additives work as they are intended. Which is it?

You are taking my statements out of context, and worse not even making an accurate statement about anything I have ever said.

Power Service increases lubricity (reduces wear), increases Cetane (improves starting), and prevents free water (reduces water related wear and associated risks), FACT and no unreasonable claims either by them or I.

Power Service can't remove or otherwise undo damage or debris in any fuel injector or fuel system component, no such statement has ever been made by me.

The only way to clean out a motor or component is to dis-assemble and clean it properly.

 

[Bob_Fout]

You are taking my statements out of context, and worse not even making an accurate statement about anything I have ever said.

Power Service increases lubricity (reduces wear), increases Cetane (improves starting), and prevents free water (reduces water related wear and associated risks), FACT and no unreasonable claims either by them or I.

Power Service can't remove or otherwise undo damage or debris in any fuel injector or fuel system component, no such statement has ever been made by me.

The only way to clean out a motor or component is to dis-assemble and clean it properly.

You have said many times PS keeps injectors clean. It's the one thing you and Frank agree on. So...now the only way to clean injectors is to take them apart. Which is it?

 

[Drivbiwire]

It keeps them from rusting by preventing free water and forming water related deposits, what's your point?

I never stated it can REMOVE or otherwise CLEAN an injector or any other fuel system part.

 

[Bob_Fout]

It keeps them from rusting by preventing free water and forming water related deposits, what's your point?

I never stated it can REMOVE or otherwise CLEAN an injector or any other fuel system part.

Never? I realize this is years ago and is a VE TDI, but you've said it more recently too. (quoted so you don't change it ).

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=223301&postcount=17

Some things I have noticed:

At 40,000 miles I was getting a lot of smoke, economy was down and my car smelled like a "Diesel". I changed the filter and topped it off with Power Service in the white bottle. I also added about 32oz to the tank to get a really high dosage to the fuel. I then started the engine it turned over ran and died. I continued cranking and it belched, puked, and had a total fit! Well it started after about 30 seconds of cranking and purred like a kitten. I thought that it may have been air in the lines from the filter change. That is until I took the car for a drive came back and the smoke was reduced a bit. I went for a good hard drive 4000 rpm+ revving and keeping a high load on the engine. When I got back the "TDI smell" had returned! The smoke was reduced noticably but I was just amazed that the CAT had lit off after all that time.

I have continued to use PS and the CAT is working all the time regardless of where I get my fuel. I do not track my mileage other than the Odometer to back up the fuel gauge. I usually get anywhere from 42-46 driving in the city with the A/C on all the time and when I hit the highway its 80+mph. Believe me I do not try to save fuel because I love the torque too much!

This same thing has happened on a few other cars I have worked on. I really think that if your having smoking or "Diesel" smell that you need to perform the fuel filter top off. This I suspect cleans out the injector needles and nozzle tips. After seeing the injector tips on the TDI it does not take anything at all to cause clogging in these injectors. As an example there is .5 microns clearance between the needle and the nozzle wall! Carbon build up on the nozzle tip will destory the fuel spray pattern causing all sorts of running and economy problems.

I continue to use PS (white bottle) in both of my TDI's year around. I use it even if I am running Amoco Premier.

One other thing I should mention is that the PS does have a high cocentration of parafin. pour some in a small dish and let it evaporate. The stick residue is what lubricates and adds BTU's to the fuel. Its not much but if you can increase the lubricity a few % that translates into huge protection margin increases.

DB

http://www.powerservice.com/products/inject_cleaners.asp

 

[Drivbiwire]

Never? I realize this is years ago and is a VE TDI, but you've said it more recently too. (quoted so you don't change it ).

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=223301&postcount=17



http://www.powerservice.com/products/inject_cleaners.asp

Again Bob posting out of context, To quote specifically and I might add 11 years ago...

"This I suspect cleans out the injector needles and nozzle tips. After seeing the injector tips on the TDI it does not take anything at all to cause clogging in these injectors."

And to emphasize another statement I made "That is until I took the car for a drive came back and the smoke was reduced a bit. I went for a good hard drive 4000 rpm+ revving and keeping a high load on the engine. When I got back the "TDI smell" had returned! The smoke was reduced noticably but I was just amazed that the CAT had lit off after all that time."

In other words the Hare drive and getting the engine loaded up was enough to get the Catalyst hot enough to start oxidizing the exhaust once more.

And Power Service makes the same claims I do but use the data from the "Cummins L 10 Injector Test" this does not state that "REMOVES" debris from within the injector only that it "PREVENTS" or cleans the injector in terms of carbon on the external surfaces of the nozzle. These certain residues and the "Decarbonization" (as they call it) is related to the reduction in soot at the external outlet of the nozzles...carefully worded but their is no magic bullet statement in anything above. A reduction in soot on the OUTSIDE of the injector is purely due to the use of 2Ehn which increases the cetane (to be specific about what additive is doing what). Increased cetane can and will lead to more complete combustion since the fuel auto-ignites quicker in turn giving more time for the fuel to combine with available air.

So Bob to put all this into CORRECT context, the cleaning that is going on in my statement from 11 years ago and in respect to the Cummins L 10 test and Power Services statements as well as the noted improved function of the catalyst has nothing to do with the internal regions of the fuel system but only in respect to reductions in carbon on those surfaces directly exposed to the combustion gasses.

Again, in order to clean a fuel system component it requires the used of ultrasonic cleaning when attempting to clean or remove accumulated deposits INSIDE the injector.

 

[DPM]

anyway... back the the game.

This product is (as I've been made aware) supplied to franchised dealerships and blessed- if not sourced by- Japan.
It appears that for whatever reason the injectors on EE20 are more sensitive to some kind of buildup than most. It's known that Denso created a shorter then normal injector body, in order to fit within the engine's design width and one wonders if the servo/solenoid end is getting hotter or something? It also seems that the software doesn't inhibit injection at low fuel pressures as one would expect with a Bosch system

Suffice it to say that I've been having discussion with the rep re. an occasional roughness and smokiness on cold starts which has only really become noticeable long out of warranty, but they're working with me on anyway.

All I know is that a fluid that had no fuel smell happily ran the engine. The fuel system is apparently clean (recent new filter, old one showed no evidence of unusual deposits) yet the fluid noticeable darkened during the application.
And on reconnecting to the fuel tank and driving there is a marked reduction in WOT haze, the engine sounds different, looking at Scangauge the calculated instantaneous mpgs are different too. The next few mornings will confirm how much effect it has had on the smoke issue.

But strangest of all is the lack of reference to the product online...

 

[Drivbiwire]

I have a set of De so injectors in for cleaning, they are odd and have a lot going on in them.

I noted for what ever reason that they appear to have a lot residues which seems to be the result of low quality fuel.

The solenoid areas have a lot of brownish residue, typical of high water content fuel and poor filtration.

This last set we got came in after another shop claimed to have cleaned them... Needless to say that they didn't do a thing to clean the internals with their mystery flush.

 

[DPM]

well now you know what product the shop should've used!

 

[Bob_Fout]

Some information about this topic from Lubrizol and a local fuel refiner who has a "premium" diesel fuel.

http://www.countrymark.com/countrymark/Portals/0/Documents/White_Paper_-_Deposit_Issues_with_Modern_Diesel_Engines_CountryMark%281%29.pdf

http://www.countrymark.com/countrymark/Fuels/diesel/injectordepositstechreview.aspx

http://www.countrymark.com/countrymark/Fuels/diesel/depositcontroldetergency.aspx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFyG-RF-QZ8

 

[Bob_Fout]

http://www.fppf.com/index.php/tech-...l-injector-cleaner-qnewq-detergent-technology

 

[DPM]

I've another bottle of this liquor on order. Has anyone any thoughts on what testing one could easily request that might give an insight into it's makeup?
GC or MS for example?

 

[DPM]

Bottle of cleaner arrived. It's packaged differently (branded by Subaru Europe) but now has a bit of blurb on the back, including country of origin and "contents".

Does 2-(2-butoxyethoxy)ethanol or N-methyl-2-pyrrolidone mean anything to our tame chemists?

 

[nicklockard]

Bottle of cleaner arrived. It's packaged differently (branded by Subaru Europe) but now has a bit of blurb on the back, including country of origin and "contents".

Does 2-(2-butoxyethoxy)ethanol or N-methyl-2-pyrrolidone mean anything to our tame chemists?

this first one is 'cellusolve' solvent to soften and get gums and varnishes to release.

This second one is general purpose paint thinner, basically, and it is formulated here to help soften the gums and varnishes, especially oxidized gums and varnishes

It is possible to send a sample to a chem lab for a profile. Total reflectance FTIR has pretty good libraries for many of these petroleum solvents. GC/MS can be done, but is a lot more work, same with more sophisticated methods. Can cost a pretty penny, too.

If you have any friends that work with TR/FTIR ask them to try running a specimen. Only takes a drop.

 

[DPM]

Thanks for that Nick, I'll see if any of my contacts @ QUB can help me out.