Hard Starts and White Smoke

[OmegaRenegade]

Ever since installing my PP764 injectors i am having some issues with hard starts in the mornings or if the car has been sitting for about 8+ hours. The car takes a good 7 or 8 cranks before the car turns over and when it does a nice cloud of white smoke comes out the tailpipe.

Also i've noticed that if i really GIV'ER on open roads i can produce a similar white cloud of smoke. It doesnt smell like burn oil at all infact the smell is entirley of diesel.

I had some problems with my nozzle install where the copper seals didnt seat properly. so this monday i changed all 4 seals and now i know that isnt my problem. The battery voltage is 12V with the engine off and around 14V when the car is running. So i have a feeling that the battery is still good. I am leaning towards a fueling problem but am unsure where to start.

Anyone have any idea's / tips / tricks to get rid of the hard starts and White smoke?

thanks!

 

[CmdrData]

Do you park your car outside over night? IIRC VWPodRacer once said white smoke is due to cold engine not operate at proper temp and should go away once it warms up. Have you tried cycle the glow plugs couple times in the morning and use some anti gel additive? BTW, are you running any bio-D?

 

[TDIMAXIMA]

white smoke can mean its running lean. A bad fuel pump could be the cause of all those issues.

 

[OmegaRenegade]

i've tried to cycle the glow plugs a couple of times and yes it does sit outside. However once its up and running i can shut it off and start it first shot no problems there after. Its just the initial startup that takes a good while.

as for the white smoke while i was driving i'm pretty sure the engine was at temperature but i'll give it another go later today to confirm.

My understanding was the same as ure TDIMAXIMA that white smoke was lack of fuel. But this all came about after the injector change. Far as i know with the larger injector nozzles my problem should be BLACK smoke not white!

 

[OmegaRenegade]

oh and the fuel i am using as far as i know is just regular dino diesel aquired from the Husky gas station

 

[TDIMAXIMA]

do u have vag?

 

[VwPodRacer]

it is due to incomplete combustion... you could have a bad injector... easiest way to check is to get a infared temp gun... point it at the cylinder walls and if the cylinder wall is one cylinder wall is cold and all the others are hot then there is your problem ... or you may have a leaking injector... white smoke means incomplete combustion or coolant burning... if you notice coolant lose then thats the problem... or you have have bad glow plugs if you only get white smoke on start ups and when the engine is cold could be alot of things just got to narrow them done but it is to do with the fueling system

 

[OmegaRenegade]

i have a Vag-com and a have an infared temp gun so will run that test. if i had a bad injector wouldnt there be a loss of power or at least i would imagine it stumbling on the higher end o fthe power band. But it pulls smooth and carries on till redline. The car as no problems once running. But hard starts is and issue and the white smoke worries me.

If it was coolant wouldnt if give off a sweeter smell? cause i definatley smell diesel and thats all.

 

[P2B]

This problem started when you installed bigger nozzles, so I'm going to guess IQ too low.

Check with VAG-COM and adjust to at least 4.0 - if it's down around 2, that's probably your problem.

While you are there, check that your timing is in the upper section of the graph - retarded timing will cause hard starts and the extra fuel injected while cranking makes the white cloud when it does go.

It's also worth getting a good whiff of the white cloud - a leaking head gasket will also make white smoke that smells like coolant.

Simon

 

[crzydub]

Going to bigger injectors can change a lot of things, check timing and use VAG com to check start if injecttion timing, i have noticed on alot of TDI that people use cheap or have worn out starters, The starter motor must see a min of 290rpm when cranking. buy OEM always a good reccomendation.

 

[crzydub]

the white smoke could be coolant?

 

[Wingnut]

Extend the glow time with your Vag-com. Its adaptation group 12. Change the default value from 32768 to 32650. That wil give you longer glow time, meaning more complete combustion and better starts. But also make sure you check your timing to make sure its in the upper part of the graph. And as Simon said, adjust your IQ level so it is around 4 or 5.

 

[OmegaRenegade]

my IQ is at 4 but timing is something i have not checked. Last time i did it was probably about 3 weeks ago but that was before the injectors where changed. I'll have a look again to make sure.

Glow plug time is also something i did not consider. Thanks for the quick how-to Nigel!

 

[ymz]

white smoke can mean its running lean.

Not possible as the fuel supply is always "lean" - going down to zero fuel use at deceleration...

White smoke usually means unburned fuel... The other possibility is coolant/water...

I'd re-check the nozzle installation (assembly)... possibly test the injectors' spray patterns (spraying into an empty soda bottle...)

Yuri.

 

[OmegaRenegade]

how does one test the spray pattern?

I'm almost a pro now at taking these injectors in and out of the car so whats one more time to check the way the nozzles have seated into the injectors. If you can tell me how to check the spray i'll test that next.

One of the unknowns is that if an injector was bad, or i wasnt getting enough fuel... wouldnt that affect the car performance wise?

 

[Toronto_Vento]

Since this happened after an injector install, I would check to be absolutely sure that your injectors have seated properly. Did you use new copper rings, or did you re-use the old ones? Just thoughts. It may not be as apparent, so you may have to check the nozzles a few times. In the past, a member came to me with poor fuel economy, but good power. Took a look at the car running, and nothing happened. Took the car out for a spirited drive, came back, and I was able to just pick up the hint of diesel at one injector...it was evaporating as I found it. Changed the copper washer, re-installed, and fuel economy was back up! Moral of the story...double check your injector installs. I have to figure one of mine out....no matter what I did, the thing still has a minor mist leak or something.

 

[OmegaRenegade]

my fuel economy hasnt been affected and i put new copper washers in everytime i've pulled the injector. i have noticed something wierd though. the #1 cylinder head where the glowplug sits blows a small ammount of air out when running. If i soak it with soapy water or any liquid in general i can see it bubbling out. could that be my cause?

 

[Antsrcool]

its a start....hope that baby isnt cross threaded

 

[OmegaRenegade]

would vag-com be able to show me on the screen if one cylinder has less compression then another?

 

[Vik F]

would vag-com be able to show me on the screen if one cylinder has less compression then another?

i dont think so, but then again, i dont have a vag.

soapy water test is positive, R&R the washer, clean up the area as best u can prior to new washer installation,

 

[OmegaRenegade]

the soap isnt bubbling from the injector. Rather the glow plug on #1 cylinder.

how does one fix that? The glow plugs are torqued to 11lbs so i dont want to try and tighten it. Anyone able to give me a hand on this to try figure out why? If this is the cause of my problems.

 

[Vik F]

the soap isnt bubbling from the injector. Rather the glow plug on #1 cylinder.

how does one fix that? The glow plugs are torqued to 11lbs so i dont want to try and tighten it. Anyone able to give me a hand on this to try figure out why? If this is the cause of my problems.

r u positive its from the GP?

r u gogin to the gtg in Putnam? if so, be sure to give your engine bay a good cleaning, quick blasts from the pressure washer in the crevices should be good enuff...we'll take a look at it there.

 

[OmegaRenegade]

i am positive its from the glowplug. Ryan noticed it when he helped me with the nozzle install. I thought it went away but when i reseated all the injectors myself with new crush washers i noticed it again.

I have planned to go to the putnam gtg but it is still pending if i am being called into work saturday.

 

[VwPodRacer]

i am positive its from the glowplug. Ryan noticed it when he helped me with the nozzle install. I thought it went away but when i reseated all the injectors myself with new crush washers i noticed it again.

I have planned to go to the putnam gtg but it is still pending if i am being called into work saturday.

i have to have the car in front of me to figure out things... if you want to meet up just pm me and or call....

 

[Vik F]

i have to have the car in front of me to figure out things... if you want to meet up just pm me and or call....

"use the force"

 

[Wingnut]

Remove glow plug......clean tappered part with some sandpaper.....take a wooden spoon handle and twist it in glow plug hole to clean the other seating surface.....reinstall glow plug.

Use a wooden spoon or some other SOFT utensil so you don't scratch the seating surface.

This should stop the air leak, but I don't think this has anything to do with your smoking issue.

 

[VwPodRacer]

"use the force"

the force is with me

 

[REDNECKDZL]

Are all glowplugs down the same lenght, IE the saem amount is sticking out?

They might be torqued to 11 lbs but there might be something sitting in the cylinder not alowing the glowpug to go down all the way, but maybe leading to it being torqued properly.

Just an Idea

 

[OmegaRenegade]

i havnt taken the glow plug out of the engine yet but when i get a little more time i'll do the wooden spoon thing.

Ryan if i can clear out my garage a bit and find myself a space heater we can do the work in my garage and not freeze our asses off.

 

[VDubbing]

Omega I have room in my garage and can fire up the propane cylender head i have if your willing to come to stouffville