Hard Start / No Start - Is your intercooler frozen? Check Here!

[GraniteRooster]

Any suggestions?

You need to put your foot down with the dealer and VWoA, they know exactly what needs to be done. DEMAND satisfaction IMMEDIATELY, accept NOTHING less. The squeaky wheel gets the grease... you are out of 36k warranty now, but sounds like you had dealer documented issues @ 19k while inside warranty. Not your fault they didn't install the kit when required by their OWN diagnosis - MAKE THEM OWN IT. Be patient, rational, unyielding, and relentless!!

 

[sgoldste01]

Has anyone performed the intercooler kit installation themselves, or seen the procedure being performed? I'm curious to know if any of the fuel lines need to be removed and then reconnected as part of the kit's installation.

 

[30Bones]

Was gone all weekend ice fishing, car was not garaged or plugged in (frostheater). Left yesterday morning and it was maybe 10*, car started/drove fine the 90 minutes home.

This morning go to leave for work. Car was garaged and plugged in. Started, put in R, and once into the street it stumbles and dies. Would not restart after 4 cycles, 5th it finally fired but is running really rough, but I get the idle up and after a minute or two it was running like a swiss watch again.

Sounds like my intercooler was/is iced up. Calling the dealer today with TSB# in hand and see what they say. Now I am nervous to start it and drive home tonight to drain the hose at home.

 

[sgoldste01]

Now I am nervous to start it and drive home tonight to drain the hose at home.

Don't worry. The car cleared itself out during the period of rough running. I had the same thing happen to me. When I got home and went to drain the hose, there wasn't hardly anything in there.

The only problem is that if the dealer needs to see the clog before ordering the kit for you, you now have nothing to show them.

 

[30Bones]

Don't worry. The car cleared itself out during the period of rough running. I had the same thing happen to me. When I got home and went to drain the hose, there wasn't hardly anything in there.

The only problem is that if the dealer needs to see the clog before ordering the kit for you, you now have nothing to show them.

That's my concern. Next time I will stop, call them and have them come get it. I have only dealt with the dealer twice, buying the car and my first service so I hope calling them today is a good conversation and if it happens again is not a huge ordeal.

 

[sgoldste01]

You should try calling the dealership, telling them what happened, and pushing for the intercooler kit. But don't be surprised if they reject the request. Many dealerships will only install the kit if they can see the problem themselves, which usually requires having a tow truck get involved.

 

[30Bones]

Well with only 15k miles on the clock and an extended warranty, I am hoping they are pricks to deal with.

 

[NewLyme]

The only problem is that if the dealer needs to see the clog before ordering the kit for you, you now have nothing to show them.

That is the issue with me also. I went in to the dealership today for an exhaust flap replacement. The service manager remembering me from 2 weeks ago with the ice issue had the tech pull the hose to look for water. None! It is going to be difficult to get this car into the dealership under the right atmospheric conditions, while it is running.

 

[NewLyme]

You should try calling the dealership, telling them what happened, and pushing for the intercooler kit. But don't be surprised if they reject the request. Many dealerships will only install the kit if they can see the problem themselves, which usually requires having a tow truck get involved.

The only difference between this statement and my experience was the phone call. I went to the dealership the very next morning after my trouble. I left empty handed.

 

[740GLE]

Once you can't start the car due to ingesting water into the cylinders, it's only a mater of time for that little water to seap past the rings and allow you to restart the car.

Many times if you do tow it to the dealer, the dealer will try and "reproduce" the issue only to find the car starts normally.

The water will come and go from the IC piping if you're above freezing, so it's tough to show the dealer waters there at time of service.

 

[30Bones]

Drop it off Wednesday morning. He is aware of the TSB and also aware it it only for 09-11 vehicles. I am not sweating anything yet.

 

[Henrick]

You all should be calling not your dealer but user 2micron instead. His drain valve seems to be the only one real fix for the problem.

 

[sgoldste01]

Drop it off Wednesday morning. He is aware of the TSB and also aware it it only for 09-11 vehicles. I am not sweating anything yet.

Hmmm. Not the 2012s and 2013s? To my knowledge, those model years are prone to this problem too.

 

[30Bones]

You all should be calling not your dealer but user 2micron instead. His drain valve seems to be the only one real fix for the problem.

Already added a frostheater, not wanting to do more mods to this car with 55K miles left on warranty. I will search for the thread. Thanks

Hmmm. Not the 2012s and 2013s? To my knowledge, those model years are prone to this problem too.

Post #1 has the TSB link and it does not state 12-13's, but IIRC that post was from 2011. Maybe there is an addendum to the TSB in this thread I was not able to find.

 

[sgoldste01]

Post #1 has the TSB link and it does not state 12-13's, but IIRC that post was from 2011. Maybe there is an addendum to the TSB in this thread I was not able to find.

I suspect so. To my knowledge, all MK6 TDIs continue to ship from the factory with the problematic intercooler design. It really pisses me off that VW would go through the research/development/testing/manufacturing/distribution trouble to develop an intercooler kit, and then not build it into their factory process for cars coming off the assembly lines starting in 2012. The kit was released in 2011, so I would have expected them to start building MK6s with the kit in 2012.

I guess not. That would make things too seamless and easy for the customer. Can't have that, now, can we?

I'm waiting to hear what kind of intercooler the MK7s will have. Hopefully one more like the Passat TDI uses, which doesn't have this problem.

 

[30Bones]

I'll update this Wednesday night with what I hear. I doubt anything happens since it won't be possible to duplicate it and the water may be all gone once I drive 15 miles to the dealer.

 

[RMF2011]

You need to put your foot down with the dealer and VWoA, they know exactly what needs to be done. DEMAND satisfaction IMMEDIATELY, accept NOTHING less. The squeaky wheel gets the grease... you are out of 36k warranty now, but sounds like you had dealer documented issues @ 19k while inside warranty. Not your fault they didn't install the kit when required by their OWN diagnosis - MAKE THEM OWN IT. Be patient, rational, unyielding, and relentless!!

That's exactly what I've been trying to do. I called them today & they said they already got the kit & it's been installed & I am supposed to get my car back tomorrow. I reminded them that the case manager promised that what she called the equivalent of a master mechanic would go through and test/physically inspect all systems on the car to check for any other damage that may have been caused by the repeated icing up. She said it would be done after the kit is intalled. The dealership didn't know anything about it so now they're trying to find my case manager to find out if/when that is supposed to be done. Hoping to find out what they decide tomorrow but it might take a few days.

 

[pknopp]

Seems a bass-ackward way of doing things.

 

[sgoldste01]

Seems a bass-ackward way of doing things.

Agreed. I elaborated on that very thing here:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=4049839&postcount=8

 

[pknopp]

I was speaking more on the idea of installing the kit and then checking to see if there was any other damage.

 

[sgoldste01]

I was speaking more on the idea of installing the kit and then checking to see if there was any other damage.

Oh, OK. Well, it's also bass-ackwards that VW designs an intercooler kit in 2011, but then doesn't build that kit into new cars on the assembly line, instead opting to let customers get stranded, possibly causing other damage to their engines, towing the car to the dealership, ordering the kit and hoping it isn't back-ordered, providing a rental car, and letting the dealership hack the kit into the car as a mod, hopefully not creating other problems in the process.

 

[gumaku1]

I have the kit installed and this morning I had a hesitation/stutter after leaving my 43F garage (getting the car above idle). This stutter is caused by the water being blown into the cylinder when the turbo spools up. As some others reported, I can agree that it seems like the kit it not 100% effective......

 

[740GLE]

the number of bent rods has been so low, that VW is just rolling the dice until the model change.

 

[sgoldste01]

the number of bent rods has been so low, that VW is just rolling the dice until the model change.

I suspect that you're right. But why not incorporate the kit, which VW spent a good amount of time and money on, directly into the cars being built in the factories?

VW has a solution (and yes, I know that people with the kit sometimes still have issues, but the kit is still a big improvement). Why doesn't VW choose to build the car as reliably as it can?

 

[crashtested]

But why not incorporate the kit, which VW spent a good amount of time and money on, directly into the cars being built in the factories?

$$$


Simply put, the time & effort of re-tooling an entire production line is far more costly then approving the IC kits on a individual basis.

 

[sgoldste01]

$$$
Simply put, the time & effort of re-tooling an entire production line is far more costly then approving the IC kits on a individual basis.

I don't know. I can't believe that the improved intercooler kit costs significantly more than the original intercooler, when purchased in the kind of quantity that VW needs. And the installation would be simple for the people on the line while the car was being built up.

It's common for manufacturers to roll in these kinds of improvements when a car switches from one model year to the next. I would have expected the kits to start being built into MK6 TDIs starting with the 2012 MY, since the kit was first released in 2011.

 

[pknopp]

I don't know. I can't believe that the improved intercooler kit costs significantly more than the original intercooler, when purchased in the kind of quantity that VW needs. And the installation would be simple for the people on the line while the car was being built up.

It's common for manufacturers to roll in these kinds of improvements when a car switches from one model year to the next. I would have expected the kits to start being built into MK6 TDIs starting with the 2012 MY, since the kit was first released in 2011.

VW wasn't even able to supply enough for the few who needed them retrofitted in 2012.

 

[crashtested]

I can't believe that the improved intercooler kit costs significantly more than the original intercooler, when purchased in the kind of quantity that VW needs.

You're probably right, it doesn't.

Again the cost is in the production line. Just to change out a single fastener costs $1000's of dollars, man hours and lost production so introducing a whole new process entirely is far greater a cost Vs. case-by-case replacement at the dealer level.

VW wasn't even able to supply enough for the few who needed them retrofitted in 2012.

^ This!

 

[sgoldste01]

Again the cost is in the production line. Just to change out a single fastener costs $1000's of dollars, man hours and lost production so introducing a whole new process entirely is far greater a cost Vs. case-by-case replacement at the dealer level.

I understand that this is true when it happens in the middle of a model year. But manufacturers commonly provide changes/improvements to a product when they switch to a new model year. They schedule for the assembly line to shut down and incorporate these changes at that time.

For example, when VW switched from MY2010 to MY2011 on the MK6 Golf TDI, they made changes to the option packages, and switched the head unit in the car, and switched the Bluetooth module's functionality. I'm sure there were software, firmware, and hardware changes required to implement these changes.

I don't know the details, but I think I've heard that VW is switching the Jetta sedan's line from the hard to the soft-touch dashboard.

Similarly, I would expect VW to have incorporated the new intercooler when they switched the TDI factory lines over from 2011 to 2012, along with whatever other hardware/software/firmware changes they made.

So I understand your point. But big manufacturers handle this kind of thing, annually, all the time.

 

[jeneric]

SOME - but not 100% - Resolution

Well, with much regret add our car (2010 Jetta TDI) to the list as another car with this issue.
But I was given a new TSB # that you might consider adding to the first post...
TSB # 21 12 01

In our case the car was driven about 1 mi round trip the night before to my in-laws, parked for about 3 hrs during a basketball game and returned home to its heated garage. Wife tries to take it to work the next morning (for future ref: Jan. 3rd-2013) & it wouldn't start, said she tried twice. I go out and try 2 other times. Once it started slightly and coughed/bucked like it didn't want to run so I immediately shut if off.
Was towed to our local VW dealer on 1-4-13, where it is at still.
Since the car has 88750mi, it's out of regular warranty, but we purchased the Platinum Service contract through VW of Langhorne, aka Fidelity Warranty Service & they will not cover the $1024.35 repair since it "is a performance enhancing upgrade" - once I calmly disagreed stating it was a TSB supported by VW, he asks the supervisor and his excuse was because "it was not a factory installed part - it isn't covered."
So I called VWoA and spoke to a Customer Service Advocate who started a case file for us and will hopefully have this resolved, in our favor, by end of the day tomorrow.

Anyway, I just wanted to pass this new TSB number along to the masses, since our service writer was kind enough to look up the number listed here and said the "#21 11 06" didn't return anything, but the #202 5464 did and was possibly expired. But the description was the same? Go figure...
Jumping over to VWVortex to do the same...

Well, our VW case worker called me yesterday after numerous calls all last week & offered to take care of 50% of the installation of the TSB cost. Guess that's better than nothing.
I couldn't get anywhere with Fidelity Warranty, those people are crooks.
I should have followed my gut when we the decided to purchase the extended warranty - I knew it'd be a waste of money...but then again there's still 20k mi left....

Hoping to have our car back Friday. FINALLY, we'll only have been without it for 14 days!!!

Anyone want to buy a Jetta?!