Hard Start / No Start - Is your intercooler frozen? Check Here!

[MotoWPK]

For those of us who drive in cold climates, next time we go for service should we demand our IC's be updated and replaced under warranty if we are still within the 3 yr, 36,000 mile?

In some cases I think a strong case can be made this applies even if your vehicle is currently beyond the 3/36 warranty. That milestone passed for my '09 Jetta TDI this past January, but the TSB covering this issue dates back to at least June 2011, documenting that the problem existed when my Jetta was in warranty. Further, it may this 5/60 warranty applies to this.

What I haven't seen reading the threads on this subject is if this problem is generic. I know the design of the vehicle systems and components involved are generic, but is the problem?

If, for example, the problem occurs on all affected TDI's (2009 Jetta, JSW, 2010-2011 Jetta, JSW, Golf, Golf Wagon - according to the TSB) when specific environmental conditions are encountered (some combination of temperature and humidity), then I for one would insist on the kit being installed on my TDI and would think that all TDI owners of these vehicles should do the same. I may not have encountered the environmental conditions yet, but certainly can in the future and this is an identified, latent defect.

On the other hand, if occurence of the problem depends on environmental conditions and certain operating conditions (EGR rate, boost, ?) then perhaps it is not a risk to all. Is it known if this is the case? If so, is it known what kind of operation can put a vehicle at risk (in conjunction with the right environmental conditions)?

 

[FormerOwner]

I wonder if the 2013 model year TDI's will have the same issues? I am looking at a 4 door Golf Tdi but I don't want to have problems with this intercooler icing business... I live in South Alabama and we get temps' in the low to mid 20's sometimes teens... but we get high humidity...

any thoughts?

 

[sgoldste01]

If I lived in Alabama, I wouldn't worry about the intercooler. I'd be more concerned about the HPFP, and I wouldn't be very concerned about that either.

 

[Loafing]

In some cases I think a strong case can be made this applies even if your vehicle is currently beyond the 3/36 warranty. That milestone passed for my '09 Jetta TDI this past January, but the TSB covering this issue dates back to at least June 2011, documenting that the problem existed when my Jetta was in warranty. Further, it may this 5/60 warranty applies to this.

What I haven't seen reading the threads on this subject is if this problem is generic. I know the design of the vehicle systems and components involved are generic, but is the problem?

If, for example, the problem occurs on all affected TDI's (2009 Jetta, JSW, 2010-2011 Jetta, JSW, Golf, Golf Wagon - according to the TSB) when specific environmental conditions are encountered (some combination of temperature and humidity), then I for one would insist on the kit being installed on my TDI and would think that all TDI owners of these vehicles should do the same. I may not have encountered the environmental conditions yet, but certainly can in the future and this is an identified, latent defect.

On the other hand, if occurence of the problem depends on environmental conditions and certain operating conditions (EGR rate, boost, ?) then perhaps it is not a risk to all. Is it known if this is the case? If so, is it known what kind of operation can put a vehicle at risk (in conjunction with the right environmental conditions)?

MotoWPK- good question. I too wonder if there is an association with fuel consumption. I average 5.2 lph (US45mpg) and locked up once after 900km (550mi) trip to remote area where there was no telephone nor mobile coverage (yikes). To repeat my earlier posted question:"I wonder if I made the turbo rage on occasion whether this would "blow out the cobwebs"".

Maybe helpful if posters on the issue included indication of driving style & fuel consumption?

 

[eddif]

If I lived in Alabama, I wouldn't worry about the intercooler. I'd be more concerned about the HPFP, and I wouldn't be very concerned about that either.

When it comes time to sell a VW TDI CR it might make a difference in what you get for it. Someone from the colder states would ask: does your car have the Intercooler Kit? Then also a Northern buyer might feel the heat had possibly weakened the HPFP over the years.

There are a lot of interconnections on where you live and the health of a CR. If any of the cars need the kit, I would hope anyone could request the Kit. People do move at times. Also Texas has evidence of water under certain weather conditions.

eddif

 

[PlaneCrazy]

Here's the downside of the IC repair. Yesterday my Golf spewed its coolant. Had the car towed to the nearest dealer, which is not the dealer that did the job. A rad hose was not clipped in place after the job, and the fan ate through the hose.

So beware, it's a complex job, there's plenty of opportunity for things to go wrong. Now my car is stuck in the garage with back-ordered part.

 

[sgoldste01]

I seem to remember someone else complaining about this a long time ago, when the kit was first introduced.

 

[GraniteRooster]

Here's the downside of the IC repair. Yesterday my Golf spewed its coolant. Had the car towed to the nearest dealer, which is not the dealer that did the job. A rad hose was not clipped in place after the job, and the fan ate through the hose.

So beware, it's a complex job, there's plenty of opportunity for things to go wrong. Now my car is stuck in the garage with back-ordered part.

Ahhhh... good times Thanks VW

 

[2micron]

Blow Out The Cob Webs???

Hello All,

Originally from Loafing
To repeat my earlier posted question:"I wonder if I made the turbo rage on occasion whether this would "blow out the cobwebs"".

.
Good question.
Water injection is beneficial in some applications, under precise measured amounts and critical timing.
But Not on Our CR TDi's!!
Blowing out the cobweb's by doing an extreme turbo run does not produce enough flow to lift small amounts of water and the goo present in the bottom of the hose. The water really has a hard road to travel, straight up approx 6 inches, then another 3 inches past the EGR, then into the Intake.
During late spring testing, in below freezing temperatures, I found the the water accumulating over time in the lower return hose. (passenger side) The water will accumulate up to a "full" level, that has to eventually get sucked up into the intake. When it does, it brings a whole slug with it, possibly hydrolocking your engine during start up, or initiating a stutter, then big clouds of white smoke, while running. Either way, not good.
The goo we see is small amounts of oil from the Turbo, emulsified over time with the water.
Some have experienced an ice up while driving, which I believe is again, the accumulated water in the hose freezing up either from the night before or during ideal driving conditions. The accumulated frozen water would be just "full" enough to allow air to pass, then thaw a little of that ice, add a little more accumulated water, then it has the perfect level to get sucked up. At this time, there would still be an ice plug in the bottom of the hose.
.
I still drain my lower hose daily, collecting very small amounts of water in these warmer temperatures.
The water is still there after a hard turbo run, all the time, every time.
(go back to page 195, post # 2915 of this thread to see the drain set up.)
The intercooler Fix From VW seems to have a good success rate, but many cars are out of warranty and there also seems to be a shortage of kits.
By manually or automatically draining the lower hose, this helps to eliminate the chance of a water injection, but still does not eliminate the accumulation of water from the intercooler condensing.
All the Best,

 

[keywestbob]

Kit installed two weeks ago on my '11 Golf. So far I've noticed.

1. Sweet spot is now moved, used to turn in best mpg right around 2,000 rpm, now its lower IF its cool out (mid 40's-60f). Hate running around 1500 rpm, same route and drive times since Nov. I waited to get two weeks data before I piped in here.

2. Has strange shudders sometimes (NEW), cant pin point. Could I actually feel the flapper in the IC open /close

3. Had a issue with marker light, loose bulb (on than off, than on etc) might have been when fascia removed and reinstalled?

4. Fired up Monday afternoon and it sounded like my '04 PD had been slid under the hood (I wish) with all the clatter but worse, if it was a gasser I'd say spark knock.

Blackstone has reported zero moisture or anti freeze in oil. Will advise as more is available.

 

[Loafing]

Thanks 2Micron, interesting.....

 

[Thunderstruck]

keywestbob, did prior UOA's show any water or antifreeze?

 

[keywestbob]

0.0 Water, 0.0 Anti Freeze, <.5 Fuel last pull, Iron was 109. Castrol or VW 10k oil changes? Going to shorter interval now that its >30,000 miles.

 

[PlaneCrazy]

Here's the downside of the IC repair. Yesterday my Golf spewed its coolant. Had the car towed to the nearest dealer, which is not the dealer that did the job. A rad hose was not clipped in place after the job, and the fan ate through the hose.

So beware, it's a complex job, there's plenty of opportunity for things to go wrong. Now my car is stuck in the garage with back-ordered part.

And here's the kicker. Got the car back yesterday. The steering wheel is now off-center, when driving straight it's cocked about 10 degrees to the left. The car tracks true, nice and straight, but the previously perfectly aligned wheel is offset.

It's driving me nuts. Damned VW dealers.

Anybody have any idea what's going on? Is it an adjustment to the electric steering I can fix myself with VCDS, or did they screw up some mechanical adjustment to get to the rad hose?

An effing TSB repair done in February is still haunting me in May. Great car, horrible dealers.

 

[crashtested]

And here's the kicker. Got the car back yesterday. The steering wheel is now off-center, when driving straight it's cocked about 10 degrees to the left. The car tracks true, nice and straight, but the previously perfectly aligned wheel is offset.

It's driving me nuts. Damned VW dealers.

Anybody have any idea what's going on? Is it an adjustment to the electric steering I can fix myself with VCDS, or did they screw up some mechanical adjustment to get to the rad hose?

An effing TSB repair done in February is still haunting me in May. Great car, horrible dealers.

Just be happy you have it done and aren't still waiting!

 

[CBRacerX]

I just told my dealer about my symptoms during the cold weather (I was in for the for 30k mile service) and they are installing a kit for me next week. Easy, assuming it all goes as planned.

Took car in today, dealer had no record of the appointment! They just wrote it up again and gave me a loaner car (2102 Passant Base). I am staring to doubt it will be done after all...

 

[Vivace]

Question: What ongoing monitoring of the intercooling system is required once the retrofit is installed? My 2010 Jetta 6M TDI with 20,000+/- is in the shop awaiting the installation of a new engine and the retrofit. Below is a photo taken while at the shop. The mechanic said failure typically begins in the third cylinder - something about the greatest stress. You can see rust in all four cylinder. Mechanic said i was lucky car ran. Thank goodness the "check engine" light came on.

 

[CBRacerX]

Took car in today, dealer had no record of the appointment! They just wrote it up again and gave me a loaner car (2102 Passant Base). I am staring to doubt it will be done after all...

Well, the train wreck in slow motion continues. I get the call from the service advisor a few minutes ago and they are "ordering the kit and will have it in a week" but my sunroof fix is done. H'mm. Of course I asked if they were sure it would be here in a week and was assured "absolutely!"

Anyone a betting man?

 

[jpsum]

Well, the train wreck in slow motion continues. I get the call from the service advisor a few minutes ago and they are "ordering the kit and will have it in a week" but my sunroof fix is done. H'mm. Of course I asked if they were sure it would be here in a week and was assured "absolutely!"
Anyone a betting man?

Good luck. My intercooler order went in a month ago. I got my oil changed today. Still nothing. They took off the plastic inlet hoses from the front of the car to the filter box. They say that would reduce the amount of moisture in the intercooler until they install the kit.

 

[bhtooefr]

Nope.

It'll very VERY slightly increase IATs, but not by enough to fix the problem. Moisture will be the same, because the moisture is coming from the exhaust.

 

[PaulGiz]

They're just doing that to make you feel like you're not being ignored. The moisture that is condensing in your IC is coming from EGR. Removing the pipe will increase IAT, but only very slightly. It does not reduce the moisture in the intake at all. Can you spell placebo?

Of course June through September in most of the US and Canada, your IAT is already high enough (or possibly more than high enough).

I let them pull the pipe because I wish to appear cooperative. As soon as I got home, back it went. Cool charge air helps performance and economy. Going on 5 months now.

P

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2

 

[sgoldste01]

EDIT: Never mind, my mistake.

 

[DubFamily]

Just starting to learn about this issue, as I bought my car 2 days ago... I had heard some about this from my brother, who has a 2010 JSW TDI up in Maine but I am wondering if any of the "new" cars off the lots have this done already?

 

[sgoldste01]

Just starting to learn about this issue, as I bought my car 2 days ago... I had heard some about this from my brother, who has a 2010 JSW TDI up in Maine but I am wondering if any of the "new" cars off the lots have this done already?

Not on JSW or Golf. We believe that the Passat TDI will not have this issue.

 

[PaulGiz]

In case the cold weather comes without upgrade, perhaps this can help some of us without machine shop skills and equipment install drain valve into IC inlet hose.

Couldn't come straight down (ideal) because of clearance unless you cut a hole into bottom plate, but it may still be low enough if you can get it to face 40° down.

http://www.frozenboost.com/product_...d=500&osCsid=0e83942e14b4709513a869bffb3367a6

P.

 

[Ghostrider]

My '12 JSW had about 1 oz. of water and sludge in the bottom of the intercooler hose, with 2300 miles on the vehicle! I purchased it at the end of March, so there was some cold weather...

I took it to VW of Langhorn, gave them pics, they examined the car, and now I'm waiting to hear about the intercooler update.

It really pisses me that VW is still not incorporating the update into production vehicles. I was told, by VWofA, when I purchased the car 'you have to have the problem before you get the fix'. What a hell of a way to demonstrate concern for their customers!

Well, as far as I'm concerned, the presence of moisture in the intake of a diesel shows a problem. I'm not waiting for a bent rod or a no start next winter...

Other than that, I am very happy with my JSW.

 

[STRANGETDI]

If you chip it, the issue seems to go away. It eliminates the LP-EGR that seems to cause the issue. I wonder if it will pass emissions though.

I may need to do this to my car too. No issues during my first winter.

 

[Ghostrider]

Well, this morning I got a call from the dealer. VWoA approved the cold weather kit... now it's a matter of waiting for the backordered kit. At least I have all summer of warm weather.

I'm aware of the LP-EGR elimination with a tune but I really don't know about that yet. After warranty...

Any thoughts about a tune and how it impacts warranty coverage? I would think they could void your coverage for anything, even unrelated issues.

 

[sgoldste01]

From my experience, VWoA struggles to decide what to cover under warranty when there's no denying that the customer didn't cause the problem.

I can't imagine a good outcome if there's any way that VWoA can place blame on the customer.

 

[csandGOLF]

I'd like to share my experience with this issue:

Over the previous winter, I experienced two episodes where I drove to work when it was below freezing, then started the car when it was warmer in the late afternoon, and experienced stumbling and rough running for a few minutes. Upon telling the service advisor about this (twice), the second time during the 10,000 mile service, they discovered water "on both sides of the intercooler" and told me that they ordered the cold weather intercooler kit for the car and removed part of the intake (U-shaped piece) as a temporary solution. 3 months later, the parts came in and are now, finally, installed on my car and I hope that this is the end of this issue for me. I'm of the belief that they should recall all of the TDIs for this issue because it is clearly a design flaw. However, the dealer was great and even footed the bill for a rental car for me while the kit was being installed so I could get to work. Overall, I love my Golf TDI.