Hard Start / No Start - Is your intercooler frozen? Check Here!

eloreno

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Location
Adirondacks
TDI
2012 golf tdi
I went to my VW dealer today to talk about the problems with the intercooler icing up. I sat down in the chair across from the service writer and told him I was positive with his help I could get this kit installed. He assured me he would be happy to do the work, but that the parts were not available. I told him I had a hard time believing that. We went back and forth for about 10 minutes but he never came off it. He said as soon as he could get the parts, he would install the kit in my car.
He was very aware of the issue, and said that they had one jetta in the shop that had hydrolocked as a result of ice/water in the lines.
There was a super bright tech there that said: "it only happens to people who drive the car very short distances, if you drive long distances, it's not a problem"
I said, "the thing is I drive long and short distances"
Unbelievable.
Has anyone out there had luck getting this done lately?
The service writer almost had me believing him by the time I left.
Anyway, thanks all.
 

My Dixie Wrecked

Active member
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Location
CONUS
TDI
None -- BMW convert.
Has anyone out there had luck getting this done lately?
I too have been met with nothing but frustration in trying to have this kit installed on my Jetta.

According to my service manager, the parts for the cold weather intercooler kit are on "national back-order" and could take up to "four months for parts to come in." Four months seems like an extremely inordinate amount of time for a part(s) to be restocked into inventory. In four months winter will practically be over where I live.

I smell BS. Especially when I can go to another VW dealer, order the kit online, and have it shipped next day.

I have since contacted VWoA and opened a case.
 

El Dobro

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Location
NJ
TDI
2017 Bolt EV Premier, 2023 Bolt EUV Premier
What's a short distance? I was driving 17 miles one way in my commute and the condensation and goop were still building up.
 

GraniteRooster

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2010
Location
Upper Valley NH
TDI
'12 JSW 6MT
"it only happens to people who drive the car very short distances, if you drive long distances, it's not a problem"
Tech is full of it anyway, my car does 100 mile runs each way and choked 35 miles into an evening snowstorm drive. Long runs cause more ice to build - its a volume thing.

I too have been met with nothing but frustration in trying to have this kit installed on my Jetta.
I was predicting there would be availability problems for this kit this fall - I wonder how many kits they've installed? Have most folks here got theirs done or no? Sucks to be at the mercy of VW - I bet if I were VW AG and push came to shove, I could get an intercooler made a whole bunch faster than 4 months :eek:
 
Last edited:

itchytweed

Veteran Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Location
Milwaukee, WI
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI Sportwagen
All I can say here is "Document, document, document like he!!". Where I work, there are people who can't stand the amount of detail that I can maintain, access and use to skewer unmercifully with. It all comes down to details.

Record the transaction, dates, and who you spoke with. That way, if your TDI decides to try water injection and craps out, you have all of this available. Knowledge is power and documentation rides shotgun.

VWofA has presented that this fix is there for the prevention of IC icing. You requested the application of the TSB and they denied applying the fix - also send the request to the VWofA help line, by either email or telephone, to put them on the record. If your car craps for this after the conversation, you now have credible evidence. There has already been a class action suit filed and accepted involving the HPFP issue, maybe it will take one of these as well for the IC icing issue.

Which reminds me, have to update my spreadsheet on Gretchen to reflect the service work that is being done today: 1) NHTSA Campaign 11V49; 2) TSB 21-11-06/2025464; 3) Engine oil dipstick cracking; 4) HPFP piston ticking off-idle; 5) 30k service.
 

itchytweed

Veteran Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Location
Milwaukee, WI
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI Sportwagen
All I can say here is "Document, document, document like he!!". Where I work, there are people who can't stand the amount of detail that I can maintain, access and use to skewer unmercifully with. It all comes down to details.

Record the transaction, dates, and who you spoke with. That way, if your TDI decides to try water injection and craps out, you have all of this available. Knowledge is power and documentation rides shotgun.

VWofA has presented that this fix is there for the prevention of IC icing. You requested the application of the TSB and they denied applying the fix - also send the request to the VWofA help line, by either email or telephone, to put them on the record. If your car craps for this after the conversation, you now have credible evidence. There has already been a class action suit filed and accepted involving the HPFP issue, maybe it will take one of these as well for the IC icing issue.

Which reminds me, have to update my spreadsheet on Gretchen to reflect the service work that is being done today: 1) NHTSA Campaign 11V49; 2) TSB 21-11-06/2025464; 3) Engine oil dipstick cracking; 4) HPFP piston ticking off-idle; 5) 30k service.
Be on the lookout for a copy of a nasty-gram to VWofA regarding the service work done to Gretchen.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2017 Alltrack SE; Totaled 2015 Passat SEL, BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat SE w/ Nav,
how'd they mess those up? details?
 

gumaku1

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2010
Location
Ohio
TDI
2010 Sportwagen TDI - DSG
I had the same response from my dealer, they need to prove to VW that there is a problem to get paid for a TSB repair. I had three occurrences last winter and I powered through them repeatedly trying to start my car because I was not in a situation where I could call VW roadside assistance and wait around in the freezing cold weather for them to tow me in.
Listening to the service writer, that means that me "the customer" has to experience the problem and have the no start, get towed in to the dealer, and the dealer has to find somthing before they can apply the TSB. If I hydrolock the engine in the process, then oh well, that is ok.
His recommendation is that we should complain the VW customer service and go from that angle. There is no other way to get the TSB applied with me working with my dealer.....
 

Elfnmagik

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Location
Sherman's Ashtray
TDI
Currently De-Dub'd
Proof in the form a hydrolocked engine, resulting in an uber-expensive repair rather than fixng the known defect for a fraction of the price. Sound familiar? You stay classy now, VW.
 

Softrockrenegade

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2011
Location
Howellbama, NJ
TDI
None...2011 Golf DSG (replaced by VW W/) 2013 Passat SE 6M(bought back) Current 2017 sportwagen TSI 4Motion.
I just asked my dealer about this kit and was quoted a price of $1400 unless there is a problem , then vw covers the repair ...
 

MayorDJQ

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 4, 2001
Location
Williamstown, Mass
TDI
'10 Golf 2dr 6m, sold.
I went to my VW dealer today to talk about the problems with the intercooler icing up. I sat down in the chair across from the service writer and told him I was positive with his help I could get this kit installed. He assured me he would be happy to do the work, but that the parts were not available. I told him I had a hard time believing that. We went back and forth for about 10 minutes but he never came off it. He said as soon as he could get the parts, he would install the kit in my car.
He was very aware of the issue, and said that they had one jetta in the shop that had hydrolocked as a result of ice/water in the lines.
There was a super bright tech there that said: "it only happens to people who drive the car very short distances, if you drive long distances, it's not a problem"
I said, "the thing is I drive long and short distances"
Unbelievable.
Has anyone out there had luck getting this done lately?
The service writer almost had me believing him by the time I left.
Anyway, thanks all.
Who is going to pay for it?


I just asked my dealer about this kit and was quoted a price of $1400 unless there is a problem , then vw covers the repair ...
What do they consider a problem? Presence of water/sludge? Hydrolocked & bent rods?
 

zznalg

Active member
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Location
SoCal
TDI
2012 Graphite Blue Manual Golf 5 door
I apologize if this has been asked and answered before. I haven't had time to read the whole thread. Are new 2012 TDI's built with the fix from the factory? Or do I have to worry as well.
 

MayorDJQ

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 4, 2001
Location
Williamstown, Mass
TDI
'10 Golf 2dr 6m, sold.
The '12 Passat has ad-blue and a water/air intercooler, so hopefully it won't be a problem for them. I haven't seen a '12 Golf/Jetta yet.
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
The AdBlue just removes the NOx and H2S traps, it does NOT remove the low-pressure EGR system to my knowledge. So, it's likely irrelevant to this discussion.
 

gumaku1

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2010
Location
Ohio
TDI
2010 Sportwagen TDI - DSG
2012 is not included in the TSB, therefore VW believes 2012 is OK, I am not sure what changed technically, I would like to know. I heard that the kit did not apply to mass production, I think someone on this forum confirmed that. That means if 2012 is ok, VW did some other fix that is probobly lower cost than the 2009-11 TSB kit.


I apologize if this has been asked and answered before. I haven't had time to read the whole thread. Are new 2012 TDI's built with the fix from the factory? Or do I have to worry as well.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2017 Alltrack SE; Totaled 2015 Passat SEL, BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat SE w/ Nav,
When the TSB was last updated, I don't think to many 2012's were out on the streets. Guessing how long it would take for the TSB to go through the different hands, I'd be safe to bet no 2012s were on the road when the TSB started being updated.

It's been documented here tha there are no additional vaccum lines visable near the intake that would indicate this TSB has been incorporated into the production line, only way to be 100% sure will be this winter.
 

Rather Be Biking

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Location
Upstate, NY
TDI
09 JSW Manual
I went to my VW dealer today to talk about the problems with the intercooler icing up. I sat down in the chair across from the service writer and told him I was positive with his help I could get this kit installed. He assured me he would be happy to do the work, but that the parts were not available.
The parts are available. My dealer ordered them last week and got them this week.
 

jbilliel

Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2011
Location
CT
TDI
2011 Jetta SportWagon
So you guys are just calling your dealer saying you have been having problems and they are ordering the parts and installing them? Perhaps I shoudl do this along with the new recall at the same time.
 

Softrockrenegade

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2011
Location
Howellbama, NJ
TDI
None...2011 Golf DSG (replaced by VW W/) 2013 Passat SE 6M(bought back) Current 2017 sportwagen TSI 4Motion.
Are you guys who are ordering these parts paying out of pocket or is vw footing the bill as preventative maintenance ?
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2017 Alltrack SE; Totaled 2015 Passat SEL, BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat SE w/ Nav,
My cost of ownership paid to the dealer over 46K miles has been zero so far, everything they've done for me has been covered by warranty charge.
 

Mainely Diesel

Active member
Joined
Sep 14, 2011
Location
Maine, USA
TDI
2011 Jetta Sportwagen
I installed a factory steel skid-plate on my 2011 JSW DSG TDI last weekend and detached the rubber hose from the IC to gain needed access to the skidplate mount points on the passenger side. I was surprised to have 2-3 oz of water come trickling out (on my forehead, of course!).

I live in the mid-coast region of Maine and have not driven the car here in winter weather yet (purchased in June) but based on the amount of condensation collected during 12.5k miles of mostly summer commuting, this is something I will be checking this winter.

A couple of questions: my car lives in a heated garage so will this lessen or worsen the condition? Also, what is the typical customer cost to have the update done to the IC by the dealer?

Thanks to all for the valuable info. Living up here in northern NE, this will certainly affect me in a couple of months!

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk

So an update...

I addressed this with my service guy along with the recent injector recall. He said he was aware of the TSB's and updates. He also explained the recall process, informed me that they expect to start seeing customer VIN's being called in November, and offered to order the intercooler update parts ahead so they can do all the work at once. He even said they would arrange a loaner for me to take on the chance they can't finish it all in one day.

Nice. Exactly what I would expect for service standard. Costs were not mentioned but the way his email reads, it will all be done under waranty. Stay tuned, I will update with new info when available! *fingers crossed*

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk
 

Rather Be Biking

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Location
Upstate, NY
TDI
09 JSW Manual
No, not exactly. I had two hydrolock situations in 2009 and have been riding around in the wintertime with a band aid (pipe insulation blocking off lower grill) ever since. I skipped going to the dealer and went straight to VW to inquire about the new intercooler kit. They checked my service records, confirmed the dealer visits in 2009, and approved me for the "TSB" (they used the acronym, not me).

So you guys are just calling your dealer saying you have been having problems and they are ordering the parts and installing them? Perhaps I shoudl do this along with the new recall at the same time.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2017 Alltrack SE; Totaled 2015 Passat SEL, BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat SE w/ Nav,
If you're going in for your 10K service or 20K service mention the issue. They will already have the car on the lift with the belly pan off, looking in the IC takes an additional 2 seconds and will give them enough proof. That's how I did mine.

BTW I'm sure you could do your service a little early, I had my 30K done at 28K as I had a start/stall IC water issue the day before.
 

epc

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Location
NJ
TDI
2010 Golf TDI
This just made the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/16/automobiles/remedies-for-clunks-and-leaks.html?ref=automobiles

At the end of the article:

"VOLKSWAGEN The company says it may have a remedy for diesels that won’t start in cold weather. In T.S.B. 2111-06 issued on Sept. 6, Volkswagen said some 2009-11 Jettas and 2010-11 Golfs, all with the 2-liter TDI engine, might not start if left in temperatures below freezing. Moisture from the air intake may condense in the intercooler. VW recommends adding a cold weather intercooler kit. "
 

eddif

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2006
Location
MS
TDI
2004 Jetta PD Automatic
They imply all you have to do is store your car in a garage above freezing and you will be fine!;)
So storing the car in a heated garage can insure a couple of things.
1..You may not have a no start issue.
2..You might insure a hydrolock experience.
3..You might not notice a problem in the making.

A no start may be the best thing out of all this.

Interesting way to skirt around the real damage of having water puddle in the intercooler piping. Why..... just talk about the not start issue, when the real issue is the possible hydrolock condition the water can cause. If you get a measured slug of water just over combustion chamber volume at cranking / running speed, you either get by with the situation with a little rattle or a bent rod,stressed bearing, or other damage. Let a measured slug of water in one cylinder be a good bit over the combustion chamber volume and you have almost no chance of not getting a damaged part (bearing, piston, rod, head gasket, etc.

Slightly bent rods may not be the end of the world. You usually just get a warm up miss that will not go away till the engine is warm. Since diesels can run so lean, you might not even notice the lower compression ratio unless it is very low.

Putting the kit on the car is a good move. You just have to Hope for quality installation work.

I feel for VW and the customers in all this. By the time a lot of cars have the kit, it is going to be expensive for VW. If the water collects in Texas then most every car needs the kit to keep water out of the engine, not just to keep a no start from happening. Of course this is all just my opinion as a person who owned an air-cooled VW that would frost up and die in the driveway on mornings I never thought it should be an issue. The temperatures for water generation are based on a lot of things (humidity level... etc). So who knows when a weather front and driving conditions will combine to generate a water situation where no problems usually exist. Get the kit if possible.

eddif
 

GraniteRooster

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2010
Location
Upper Valley NH
TDI
'12 JSW 6MT
as a person who owned an air-cooled VW that would frost up and die in the driveway on mornings I never thought it should be an issue. The temperatures for water generation are based on a lot of things (humidity level... etc). So who knows when a weather front and driving conditions will combine to generate a water situation where no problems usually exist. Get the kit if possible.

eddif
Wise words - my car iced up a LOT in the first half of winter last year. Just about anyone in the US might be put out by this, especially if traveling during the holidays. Extended trips in iffy weather will tend to build ice - my car choked and went into limp mode while on the highway at 72 mph in traffic :(
 
Top