Hard Start / No Start - Is your intercooler frozen? Check Here!

[aerox]

After several weeks bouncing back and forth between VWoA and my dealership. My 2010 Golf was finally approved for the TSB. I had to push hard as I was approaching the end of the warranty period at 36K miles. I dropped it off today and will pick it up tomorrow. It is taking much longer than anticipated. I was told that VW only allocated 4 hours for the procedure but looks like it will take closer to 8 hours to complete. I am reluctant to trust the dealership with this job but I am glad that I don't have to do it myself in the 100+ degrees Texas heat. I was able to obtain a copy of the 9-page TSB from the service consultant. If anyone is interested, PM me and I will scan and send you a copy. The real test will come this winter.

 

[740GLE]

I'll gladly score a copy of that TSB.

BTW why wouldn't that be covered under the 60,000 Power train warranty?

 

[GraniteRooster]

Aerox, thanks for telling your story. Did you car get seen by the dealer last winter for the issues? Or was this a preventative step for you?

I keep posting this, but I think the 4 week back and forth with the dealer is a good reason for anyone concerned to get on the phone with dealer & VWoA now, before winter, to have the kit installed on their car. Cold temps are coming quick

 

[tcp_ip_dude]

Aerox, Thanks for the post. PM sent regarding TSB. Keep us updated..

 

[jchall]

Aerox, thanks for telling your story. Did you car get seen by the dealer last winter for the issues? Or was this a preventative step for you?

I keep posting this, but I think the 4 week back and forth with the dealer is a good reason for anyone concerned to get on the phone with dealer & VWoA now, before winter, to have the kit installed on their car. Cold temps are coming quick

When I contacted the dealer that I purchased my car from they said it would only be installed on cars that had problems. I had a rough start on 2 occasions that eventually smoothed out after about 45 seconds, but it was never towed in for a no-start. This was documented with the dealer when I had my 6000mile/90day courtesy check. When I told the service writer this, she said, "Oh, this is only for cars that had a no start and had to be towed. If you want it installed you can pay for it yourself."

This is the same dealer that asked me if at the 6000/90 service if my car was leased or purchased, because with purchased vehicles they recommend oil changes at 5000 miles rather than 10,000. The service advisor couldn't explain the differences in the engines or oil that necessitated the more frequent oil change interval for a purchased vehicle.

 

[bhtooefr]

What they're trying to imply is, if you're going to give the car up after a few years, don't bother maintaining it as much.

The thing is, 10,000 miles IS the severe service interval, and is just fine for maintenance if you own the car.

 

[Daniel L]

Can any 2012 owners please comment on presence or lack of this kit in new cars shipping to US, New England, Canada?? Got to be some of you out there now....

Here are some pics from a 2012 Golf. I don't know what I'm looking for so if you need another angle or something more specific, let me know.

 

[torqueit]

This is the same dealer that asked me if at the 6000/90 service if my car was leased or purchased, because with purchased vehicles they recommend oil changes at 5000 miles rather than 10,000. The service advisor couldn't explain the differences in the engines or oil that necessitated the more frequent oil change interval for a purchased vehicle.

Well of course you have to change the oil more often on a purchased car. The purchased car has a different engine design .... No that couldn't be it.

The purchased car is driven more gently since the owner will keep it longer ... no that can't be it either.

I'm going for option C. The dealer is a SCHMUCK!

 

[terrapin]

My dealer also will not do the upgrade even though I have two invoices that mention hard start conditions from last winter. This is really sad service on VW part for folks that live in areas with winter weather. I hit 60k on my car tomorrow which makes me uncomfortable not that the powertrain warranty is toast

I looked at a Subaru today since I am not comfortable with the potential nightmares that may occur with this issue not being resolved at VW's expense.

 

[MonsterTDI09]

My dealer also will not do the upgrade even though I have two invoices that mention hard start conditions from last winter. This is really sad service on VW part for folks that live in areas with winter weather. I hit 60k on my car tomorrow which makes me uncomfortable not that the powertrain warranty is toast

I looked at a Subaru today since I am not comfortable with the potential nightmares that may occur with this issue not being resolved at VW's expense.

Who is your dealer?

 

[terrapin]

Jack Daniels in Fair Lawn NJ. Overall they have been good to work with

 

[GraniteRooster]

I would be on the phone with VW and pushing back hard for installation under warranty. Letting the car go is a bad idea IMO, and VW really has no reasonable argument to deny people experiencing problems. Start making a stink with VWoA, ramp up the pressure hard, and find a different dealer to work with might all be good ideas for you guys.

 

[aerox]

TSB # 21 11 01 / 2025464 dated May 24, 2011 has been superceded by TSB # 21 11 02 / 2025464 dated June 14, 2011 and most recently, TSB # 21 11 06 / 2025464 dated September 6, 2011. The latest TSB referenced updates to warranty table and labor information. It may be helpful to reference the latest TSB when requesting warranty work.

My vehicle was never towed. My repeated requests to the dealership for warranty work based on a couple hard start last winter went nowhere. I was denied access to the service manager and was advised to contact VWoA directly. I simply e-mailed via the vw.com website, with references to the TSB information posted on this thread, requesting authorization for the dealership to perform the TSB under warranty. I received a response from VW within a couple of days advising me that they have contacted the service manager and that I need to work with him directly. I thought that I was getting the run around but when I went to see the service manager, he said that he had spoken to VW about my case and promptly directed the service consultant to schedule me for the TSB work ASAP as my warranty was expiring soon (the IC is not considered part of the powertrain). The work is completed as of today.

Based on my experience, my impression is as follows: Dealerships are reluctant to perform TSB work under warranty as they may be denied reimbursement by VW. Further, labor hours authorized by the TSB is insufficient to properly complete work. My dealership likely had to eat the extra 4 hours required to do the job as well as the rental car costs. My recommendation in this case is to take it directly to VWoA and request that they authorized your service manager to perform the TSB under warranty.

 

[740GLE]

How the heck is the IC not part of the power train? btw i hope they cover it if you have a documented case of this before the TSB came out, such as mine.

I'll find out tomorrow as I'm seeing the dealer about the crap tastic door locks.

 

[bhtooefr]

This is VW's definition of "powertrain", at least as of MY2012:

Engine: Cylinder block and all internal parts, cylinder head and all internal parts, valve train, spur belt, flywheel, oil pump, water pump, manifolds, all related seals and gaskets

Transmission: Case and all internal parts, torque converter, all related seals

Drivetrain: Differential and all internal parts, drive shafts and cv joints

 

[Rod Knock]

Great, what the hell did I just get myself into.
Has this issue been resolved on the 2011+ Golfs?
I live in MN and can see this becoming a huge issue.

 

[aerox]

2011 Golfs appear on the warranty table in the latest revision of the TSB so it is not likely resolved for this model year.

 

[GraniteRooster]

Here are some pics from a 2012 Golf. I don't know what I'm looking for so if you need another angle or something more specific, let me know.

Thanks for posting your pictures they are good ones - it looks like the '12's are not coming with the kit. If you car had the kit you would see the 2 vacuum lines and valve shown in my Post #989.

It will be interesting to see if cars continue to develop issues.

 

[terrapin]

Sad to say but the poor handling from VW on this issue, along with HPFP fears, have made me decide to get rid of the TDI. I am pick up a Subaru Outback this Friday. I drive all day for work and have really liked the fuel economy, power and overall driving experience with this car. I really hope that VW address this concern in a much better manner before this winter season and beyond.

The 60k I put on the car in a year and a half were mechanically not bad. I did however have the radio replaced twice ( under warranty) and the horrible roads in the NYC area damaged three wheels last year that cost me 2 alignments and one wheel replacement within a 2 month span. I also had the lower control arm bushings replaced under warranty at 20k

Best of luck to everyone, this forum is top notch

Ed

 

[740GLE]

Baragner VW is odering up the kit for me and it'll be installed the 27th of Sept. Took just mentioning that on my 30K service I noted the issue to them, no need to mention the TSB or what. I'll let you guys know how it goes, they said it'd take 3 hours or so.

 

[oxford_guy]

I am pick up a Subaru Outback this Friday.

What led you to choose the Outback?

 

[MayorDJQ]

Sad to say but the poor handling from VW on this issue, along with HPFP fears, have made me decide to get rid of the TDI. I am pick up a Subaru Outback this Friday. I drive all day for work and have really liked the fuel economy, power and overall driving experience with this car. I really hope that VW address this concern in a much better manner before this winter season and beyond.

The 60k I put on the car in a year and a half were mechanically not bad. I did however have the radio replaced twice ( under warranty) and the horrible roads in the NYC area damaged three wheels last year that cost me 2 alignments and one wheel replacement within a 2 month span. I also had the lower control arm bushings replaced under warranty at 20k

Best of luck to everyone, this forum is top notch

Ed

So let me get this straight......you bashed up 3 wheels, replaced the radio, and had one other minor flaw, but you're worried about being in the <.01% of cars with an HPFP failure?

Have fun getting 20mpg in the Subaru. I hope you're not taller than 5'8".

 

[newdie]

So let me get this straight......you bashed up 3 wheels, replaced the radio, and had one other minor flaw, but you're worried about being in the <.01% of cars with an HPFP failure?

Have fun getting 20mpg in the Subaru. I hope you're not taller than 5'8".

New Subies are nice. They glow in the dark.

 

[bhtooefr]

New Subies are nice. They glow in the dark.

I wasn't aware that there was a nuclear incident in Indiana.

 

[eddif]

I wonder if unknowns glow in dreams at night?

The known facts about all this is: at some temps and humidity levels water condenses into the intercooler tract, and according to a lot of driving variables you can get varying results. Your results might be a cough, no start, bent rods, stall, etc. If you do nothing you face possible consequences.

It seems a very few managed to get a kit installed by VW (the rest should keep on trying for the kit). No one really knows how the cars will respond with the modification, but the stock cars are known to have problems and the electronic tune of this new fix may take a time to be sorted out.

The rest of the owners with no fix / patch in place might want to look into a drain, intercooler wind cover, or other action. If you can not get past denial, you will be facing possible problems. If Texas will cause the problem I would think that not many places are free from that freaky situation where temp and humidity are just at a correct ratio to cause water in the intake. If one driving style lets the water collect and another driving style purges the water, how luckey do you feel about all this.

Worry will not help, but guided attention to the problems will possibly find some solutions. There have been some suggestions on what to try.

eddif

 

[El Dobro]

It was to the point where I was cleaning the hoses approx. every 5000 mi. and was still getting goop and condensation out of there. I was also lubricating the flapper valve shaft at the same time.

 

[eddif]

It was to the point where I was cleaning the hoses approx. every 5000 mi. and was still getting goop and condensation out of there. I was also lubricating the flapper valve shaft at the same time.

Sounds like an installed drain could make the job easier. There is boost pressure available at times to help with the draining into a container.

eddif

 

[El Dobro]

Sounds like an installed drain could make the job easier. There is boost pressure available at times to help with the draining into a container.

eddif

I had done it so much, I had it down to doing it in a few minutes. Besides, if I didn't check underneath, I wouldn't have caught the leaking turbo drain.

 

[terrapin]

FYI MajorDJQ,

Arrogant remarks like yours make you look like a big man......I am 6 feet tall and got 31 mpg in the outback I just purchased over the past week putting on 1500 miles.

The majority of posters on this site have respect, but some like you are just clowns and that is pretty sad

 

[TwoTone]

So let me get this straight......you bashed up 3 wheels, replaced the radio, and had one other minor flaw, but you're worried about being in the <.01% of cars with an HPFP failure?

Have fun getting 20mpg in the Subaru. I hope you're not taller than 5'8".

I'm 5' 10" almost 5' 11", no problems at all. Also, get 24-27 mixed, mid 30's highway, loving it
The mileage isn't the best cause my wife still drives it like the TDI