Hard Start / No Start - Is your intercooler frozen? Check Here!

[06bluebeetletdi]

I had the same issue of stumbling under hard acceleration in the summer, then the frozen intercooler that winter, i have a winter front now and check the intercooler pipe every oil change.

 

[ryansportwagen]

I'm thinking about a Kerma tune to help with this issue, in addition to the winter front. The tune cuts down on EGR, right?

I found a place 1.5 hours away that will do a delete and Malone tune, but the more I think about it, the more reservations I have about doing a delete.

 

[kjclow]

I think the only way to totally cure the issue is a full delete.

 

[jesus_man]

It seems you are money ahead deleting vs trying to continue to fix this system. A road I am likely headed down with two of my diesels.

 

[akjdouglass]

It seems you are money ahead deleting vs trying to continue to fix this system. A road I am likely headed down with two of my diesels.

Even if it's not money-wise to do so, a delete is worth every penny spent to rid yourself of the hassle of dealing with all of the known issues.

 

[bmor89]

Delete and malone stage 2 was the only thing to fix my 2013. The improved mileage quickly pays for the job, especially these days.

 

[06bluebeetletdi]

I’m at 111,000 miles now just replaced the large cooling fan and checked the intercooler hose, maybe a dozen drips of water. No frozen intercooler for me this winter.

 

[ryansportwagen]

It's dropping into the 20's F the next couple of nights and it reminded me to make a lower grille cover. I got some cardboard on there for now but will use it as a template for a better one. Or I may just wrap it in duct tape and hope it lasts the season

 

[joesaiditstrue]

Could a failing flywheel cause hard start issues? Just based on the way it's mechanically designed to engage the flywheel on start, I'm wondering if my hard start issues (even in summer months) could be related to my DMF going out.

 

[06bluebeetletdi]

So…. Draining the intercooler every 5,000 miles for the last 3 years did nothing apparently it must occur in a very short period of time as guess what beetle froze the intercooler again? It’s been about 3500 miles since the intercooler was drained in october, december was cool/cold here, with rain on 12/22, i moved the car 12/23 & 24 (after the morning started at 10*), then it sat until 12/27 when it started and ran rough and i shut it off, then wouldn’t restart. I let it sit until today when it was 60* and it started then stalled out. I drained 1.5 cups of water from the intercooler, it has a grill cover and has been running fine, no stumbles like I experienced 3 years ago. Any suggestions on if tuning it will help? Or which tune? I’m doing it as soon as the car hits 120,000 miles, I can’t deal with this nonsense anymore. I know several of y’all have it much worse than i do, I’m in north carolina, but don’t have a heated garage for the bug not sure if that would solve the problem either.

 

[06bluebeetletdi]

Exact mileage and dates:
10/9/22 - 112320 miles drained intercooler
12/27/22 - 114832 miles frozen intercooler 1.5 cups of water

 

[Carl Ulli]

So…. Draining the intercooler every 5,000 miles for the last 3 years did nothing apparently it must occur in a very short period of time as guess what beetle froze the intercooler again? It’s been about 3500 miles since the intercooler was drained in october, december was cool/cold here, with rain on 12/22, i moved the car 12/23 & 24 (after the morning started at 10*), then it sat until 12/27 when it started and ran rough and i shut it off, then wouldn’t restart. I let it sit until today when it was 60* and it started then stalled out. I drained 1.5 cups of water from the intercooler, it has a grill cover and has been running fine, no stumbles like I experienced 3 years ago. Any suggestions on if tuning it will help? Or which tune? I’m doing it as soon as the car hits 120,000 miles, I can’t deal with this nonsense anymore. I know several of y’all have it much worse than i do, I’m in north carolina, but don’t have a heated garage for the bug not sure if that would solve the problem either.

So, you seem to be in a habit of draining the intercooler. Would you say you drained out a smaller amount each time in the past, but are now draining a large amount just this last time? I am thinking you should look closely if there is an o-ring on the connector. I think there is, as I vaguely remember. Check if it has a notch, or notches in it, from wear and tear. Grit, or sand can cause a leak too. I am wondering if an air leak could cause more condensation to build up there. Try running the engine and feel if a draft of air leaks out right at that connection. I have only had mine off one time, and that was a very long time ago. I put my winter front on in the fall and take it off in late spring. I don't worry about it. Also, I try to avoid short trips that don't warm up the engine to full operating temperature. This means combining errands and doing them all in one shot to avoid the short runs. (I'm retired now so I no longer have regular long trips to work.)

 

[prsa01]

While it is MUCH colder here, the air is much drier when it is cold. You actually may be in the worse situation for IC icing/water. The combo of relatively humid air with fluxuating lowish temps seems to be the most problematic esp without regular long highway runs.

I've only had to drain mine once in 3 winters and it was early winter with still some humidity but falling temps. I'm going to make it a habit to drain mine when I put the grill cover on each fall/winter.

Things you could try that others report SOME level of success:

Cold weather intercooler - since you've had multiple, documented occurrences, you may be able to talk your dealer into doing this. Mine wouldn't
Drill hole in lowest spot of intercooler - mixed results, since you don't get a huge amount of sub-freezing Temps this might worth well
Install valve in intercooler -

All of these are documented earlier in this thread. You are already doing what has (mostly) worked for me by covering the lower grill.

 

[06bluebeetletdi]

Over the past three years, every 5,000 miles I drained the intercooler, usually it’s only 8-12 drops of water, this time it was a solid stream into my bucket ending at 1.5 cups of water. I had the cold weather kit installed after the first incident while the car was covered under the certified pre owned warranty, it was checked after the 2nd incident and verified to be functioning. I haven’t taken it in to the dealer to check after this 3rd incident since it was only discovered yesterday.

my concern with drilling the hole in the pipe is my driveway is 1/4 mile long and dirt, so I’m thinking it could suck dirt in that hole.

 

[06bluebeetletdi]

I wish i could find a clear pipe/hose that could replace the rubber hose on the passenger side so i could just see the water in the hose.

 

[prsa01]

"my concern with drilling the hole in the pipe is my driveway is 1/4 mile long and dirt, so I’m thinking it could suck dirt in that hole."

The intercooler is pressurized by the turbo which is why drilling a hole works to push water out. You lose a tiny amount of boost pressure but those who've done it haven't said it caused a problem.

Again, not sure any of these are 100% effective.

 

[jesus_man]

Here is my fix and I have had no issues since:

Drilling a drain hole in the intercooler plumbing

I did the drill job too, no issues whatsoever. Piece of mind to see water on the ground instead of in the tube. But, now that I have committed to give the car back to VW and getting a simple 14 year old Tacoma 5 speed with crank windows, no intercooler, no HPFP, no turbo, no DPF, no exhaust...

forums.tdiclub.com

and

Drilling a drain hole in the intercooler plumbing

I did the drill job too, no issues whatsoever. Piece of mind to see water on the ground instead of in the tube. But, now that I have committed to give the car back to VW and getting a simple 14 year old Tacoma 5 speed with crank windows, no intercooler, no HPFP, no turbo, no DPF, no exhaust...

forums.tdiclub.com

I did end up changing the drain tube routing. You don't want to come up with the drain tube; it needs to stay lower than the IC. So I routed mine from the lower IC tube, across to the drivers side and I have the valve right in front of the drivers side tire. I leave it cracked open and with the turbo pressures, there is no concern of dust getting in. The issue then is the sooty water blows back on the suspension, but it's a small price to pay for reliability. You could just drill the hole and let it drain/blow out, but I wanted to control and/or monitor it better.

 

[06bluebeetletdi]

That makes sense, i just didn’t want to end up with something worse than what i have now.

 

[Carl Ulli]

my concern with drilling the hole in the pipe is my driveway is 1/4 mile long and dirt, so I’m thinking it could suck dirt in that hole.

It won't suck any dirt into there as it is always under about 7-10 psi pressure. You have a turbo air intake system. Instead, a hole there would allow a watery, oily, big mess to always spray out of there and coat the whole underside of the engine bay and eventually all the way down the underside of the car with this black sticky mess. Are you OK with that? Remember the turbo needs to be lubed with engine oil, and the seals in the turbo "sweat" some oil out, which gets into the whole intake plenum. That hole you put into there will allow this mess to get all over the car's belly.

 

[Carl Ulli]

I wish I could find a clear pipe/hose that could replace the rubber hose on the passenger side so I could just see the water in the hose.

There won't be any water build up in the upstream side, (source of air flow). Think about how a refrigerator works. The downstream side of the intercooler is downstream of the flow restriction which the fine tubing of the intercooler is. Condensate will build up on the left side, as in my Jetta, because that is where the pressure suddenly drops.
I wonder if you shouldn't cover about half or one third of the top grille to cover that side of the radiator. You do already have the bottom covered, right? And I am suggesting this because you may be in an extremely humid chilly area. I am in Ontario, and I believe it may be less humid here.
update to 06bluebeetletdi: Sorry, I didn't think of the possibility that everything could be a totally different layout on the beetle.

 

[06bluebeetletdi]

The water is from the passenger side, not drivers side. The beetle only has a lower grill, no upper grill.

233CB741-B23D-4ACA-9916-61991FC70D75.jpeg

• 06bluebeetletdi
• Nov 17, 2020

 

[06bluebeetletdi]

I’m leaning towards the hose with a valve fix, as this nonsense doesn’t work for me, what’s the point of having a car you can’t drive in certain weather conditions, i bought a hardtop bug, not a convertible. The winter front has helped my fuel economy, it doesn’t drop 2-3 mpg in the winter like it used to when the grill was open in the winter.

 

[Wilkins]

I found I got water buildup and eventual ingestion in all sorts of weather if I didn’t push the engine reasonably hard occasionally. Easy cruising on level roads was not a good idea. I drilled a hole but it didn’t always work and after having the engine die at a critical point while merging I resorted to changing the ECU code.

 

[prsa01]

I found I got water buildup and eventual ingestion in all sorts of weather if I didn’t push the engine reasonably hard occasionally. Easy cruising on level roads was not a good idea. I drilled a hole but it didn’t always work and after having the engine die at a critical point while merging I resorted to changing the ECU code.

Do you mean flashing a tune? Is that known to resolve this issue?

 

[Wilkins]

Yes. The water comes from the low pressure EGR system so reducing the amount of low pressure EGR reduces the amount of water which condenses in the intercooler. The ‘fix’ significantly increased the amount of EGR to lower combustion temperature and reduce NOx formation. Unfortunately this also resulted in significant water accumulation in the intercooler at lower power levels, which then gets sucked into the engine when the power is quickly increased. Result is loss of power and possibly damage.

 

[ryansportwagen]

I got the Dynamic EGR (by Malone) tune only, no stage anything and hardware intact, last November and I haven't had an icing / no start event this winter. It happened multiple times the previous two years (since I bought the car) so this is a relief. Hopefully not premature, as it's still kind of cold and rainy. But looking good so far

 

[06bluebeetletdi]

Seriously thinking about tuning mine at 120k, I’m at 116,500 now.

 

[13swtdi]

Bought a 13 jsw a couple weeks ago when it was 15°f out. Drove fine other then not finding 1st a few times. This morning went to move it 45°f out. Cranked and stopped. I popped the pass side cac tube off and bam a cup or so of water. Tonight after work I'm pulling the glow plugs to crank her and clear out the cylinders. Probably going to poke a small hole in the cac tube till i can hit a pothole.

 

[Carl Ulli]

Put a winter front on. See my avatar? That is my Jetta in the summer with only the three brass coloured snaps on each side showing. In fall the winter front cover goes on. I never have to do anything to it. Never take the CAC tube off, nothing. In late Spring the winter front comes off again and still no need to do anything more. Look at big rig trucks; they have to do the same thing. It's the nature of the beast.

Probably going to poke a small hole in the cac tube till i can hit a pothole.

Sorry, I don't understand what hitting a pothole means to you. Also, if you poke or drill a small hole in there you will have a black oily film all over the underside of the car from front to nearly all the way back, and a mess on the driveway where the car is always parked. No-thank-you to that.

 

[turbobrick240]

"Hitting a pothole" is the timid way of saying planning a DPF/EGR delete. If you give the car an enthusiastic Italian tune up on a regular basis, especially near the end of a drive, you won't have intercooler icing problems. No drilling needed.