Hard Start / No Start - Is your intercooler frozen? Check Here!

prsa01

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2000
Location
mpls,mn usa
TDI
14 jsw 6m, 96 B4v, miss my a4 :(
I don't think it was the battery at all, it definitely seemed like it ingested water because it was running and died a few seconds later and then wouldn't attempt to even turn over right after that. I believe I've read that if the resistance is too high on the starter, it prevents it from attempting to turn over to save the starter and prevent fires.

Update on my vehicle: The dealer found moisture in the charge air pipe and is installing the cold weather intercooler kit under warranty. Hopefully that solves it, I may try to find a winter front next winter as well.
Was this cpo or emissions warranty? Please let me know here or via pm which dealer. I'd like to find one willing to install this tsb.

Thanks
 

ebain21

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Location
St. Paul, MN
TDI
2012 Golf TDI 6M
I'm picking it up Wednesday. I'll let you know. I do have both, but the emissions warranty does state that it covers the charge air cooler so I'm going see if I can save $50 and not use the CPO warranty. Didn't see you were in Minneapolis... It was VW Inver Grove. It seemed like the only evidence they needed for warranty was moisture in the charge air cooler.
 

ebain21

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Location
St. Paul, MN
TDI
2012 Golf TDI 6M
Last update (for now): Picked the car up, cold weather kit and intercooler, plus a dealer rental for two days were covered under the extended emissions warranty.
 

Swinging Steel

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Location
Newtown, CT
TDI
'13 Sportwagen 6M, '15 Passat 6M
Had a no start Saturday morning. 4th or 5th time this has happened. Instead of fight through it, we had it towed to VW this morning. Even after sitting 2 days, it didn't start for them either. They found moisture in the charge air pipe, and proceeded to replace the intercooler with the updated intercooler among a couple of other parts. We picked it up tonight, and all seems well. Covered under warranty...except the tow. Call it a $180 intercooler replacement.
 

LuckyK

Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2019
Location
Michigan
TDI
2012 Golf TDI
I got the kit installed on my 2012 golf in 2019. It has been working fine so far but a warning: the TSB doesn’t explicitly call for a software update afterwards. My car started acting terrible as soon as I picked it up (felt like intermittent power loss and fuel economy tanked). I called the dealer the next morning and they said just watch it. Two days later CEL came on. Dealer then told me I needed a new EGR. I said, no, this has to do with the winter kit. So they got on the phone with VW and found out about the software update. It immediately started performing better. And they still did the EGR for me lol (warranty)
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
Had a no start Saturday morning. 4th or 5th time this has happened. Instead of fight through it, we had it towed to VW this morning. Even after sitting 2 days, it didn't start for them either. They found moisture in the charge air pipe, and proceeded to replace the intercooler with the updated intercooler among a couple of other parts. We picked it up tonight, and all seems well. Covered under warranty...except the tow. Call it a $180 intercooler replacement.
The tow should be covered by VW roadside. Part of the emissions settlement. Submit it to your VW dealer.
 

Swinging Steel

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Location
Newtown, CT
TDI
'13 Sportwagen 6M, '15 Passat 6M
The tow should be covered by VW roadside. Part of the emissions settlement. Submit it to your VW dealer.
I didn't see any language in the paperwork that indicated the cost of a tow would be covered. When I asked them about it upon picking up the car, the response was "can't help you with that."
 

Loafing

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2011
Location
Hamilton
TDI
09 Mexican Jet
Hydrolock & leaking gasket on intercooler hose

A note of contrition here after bringing in car because (not flashing) engine light came on.

Spoke with mechanic who found the intercooler hose pipe gasket was leaking and may have caused the mil. Had a candid discussion about my hydrolock and was told the proper thing to do is have the car towed to the garage. Risk of bent con rod is there even when my "work-around" below is deployed. So, if your battery can't turn it over, call the hook....



Posted this in the section 2.0 Gen 1 post fix impressions, issues, etc.


740GLE explains my experience very well....




About a week ago(Nov 22), had a full blown "hydrolock" on starting 2009 Jetta TDI with 245k. Happened this bad only once before, many yrs ago. The engine stumbled and died on first attempt to start. Subsequent attempt, battery could not turn over engine. Jumped battery in second car but still wouldn't turn over & realized the dreaded slurpy was ingested. After many short bursts on the starter, engine turned over & fired on some of the cylinders & died a few times before it would stay lit. After a while, all smoothed out & no after effects, in fact did an 1800km run up north & back. Battery is in it's 10th year so thought that was the issue until I scrolled back in the memory banks to the previous event.


I am assuming cylinders had only taken in enough liquid to boost compression so high starter motor couldn't turn over the engine.


My measured fuel consumption is up 10% post fix (mfd understates fuel consumption 10%).





Not impressed...
 

Carl Ulli

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Location
Oshawa, Ontario
TDI
2005 Jetta Wagon TDI (My Daughter's now); 2012 Highline Jetta TDI; 2012 Golf Wagon
Here is what I did:

I have known about this problem for quite some time but had few instances of it happening to my car. (2012 Jetta with the CJAA engine) Well it happened to me this weekend. I had been visiting in-laws yesterday, had the full hydrolock, so I left it and got home by another way. Overnight the water that was in the combustion chambers would have frozen but I got it home after waiting to let the ice thaw. I hoped that there was not too much in there and that some of it would have leaked down past the piston rings. So I tried cranking it over and sure enough it did. It still needed a lot of cranking to get ignition because of all the moisture but it finally did run. When I removed the IC hose I got about an ounce of water out. Not the 2 1/2 cups like others have found. This might be a significant fact to some of you folks reading this.
So, with the IC hose off I grooved out a space for a metal ball point pen cartridge to cause a small "leak". The pen cartridge is about an inch and 3/8 long, deburred to prevent damage to the hose, and it keeps the hose from sealing to the IC charge pipe. While the engine is running there is occasionally a spray of water mist, and when not running the water can drip out. I did it this way so that if I need to I can reverse this mod back to normal. Time will tell if the little metal tube (pen cartridge) will clog up.
The following photos will tell the rest of the story.
(Sorry, I'm stuck. I can't get the photos on here.)
 
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Carl Ulli

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Location
Oshawa, Ontario
TDI
2005 Jetta Wagon TDI (My Daughter's now); 2012 Highline Jetta TDI; 2012 Golf Wagon
Well Guys, it is one day later and, although the car started and ran really well, I will have to reverse this modification back to normal. As the EGR opened up, seemingly, I began to smell exhaust fumes. Even through that very tiny hole!
So to those of you who were considering drilling a hole for a drain - don't do it. I will have to make up a setup with a ball cock valve and a control rod just like 2micron did.
 
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Carl Ulli

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Location
Oshawa, Ontario
TDI
2005 Jetta Wagon TDI (My Daughter's now); 2012 Highline Jetta TDI; 2012 Golf Wagon
Well Guys, it is one day later and, although the car started and ran really well, I will have to reverse this modification back to normal. As the EGR opened up, seemingly, I began to smell exhaust fumes. Even through that very tiny hole!
It may have actually been the smell of hot engine crankcase oil fumes, or a combination of both that and the exhaust fumes. It did not smell like that the next 3 times I drove the car and I haven't driven it since yet. (I am stuck home and not allowed to get out due to the corona virus self isolation rule.) The crankcase oil fumes smell would only happen when a droplet of oil leaks past the turbo bearing seal.
 

spooality

Active member
Joined
May 27, 2019
Location
St. Louis, MO
TDI
2012 Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 6MT
Had this happen to me 4 or 5 times this last winter in my 2012 JSW 6MT with 80k miles. The engine would start, die immediately, then take eight or so more tries to start it back up. It would run rough for about a minute, then smooth out. Took it to my mechanic here in St. Louis and was told that it's a known issue and that I could pay $1500 to fix it or just live with it. I asked if there is any risk of damaging anything if I just live with it (only happens a few times a year, only takes five minutes until it's running), and they said none at all. Now I come across this thread, and I'm wondering if I should get it done. Granted, I haven't read through all 363 pages of the thread, so maybe somewhere along the way it was determined that it's not as big an issue as it was on the first page.

So, should I get this repaired? Am I risking damaging something?

Also, It sounds like some have had success getting this repaired at a dealer under the emissions warrenty, is that correct?
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
Call the nearest VW dealer and see if they will do the fix under the recall. There might be an issue with them having to witness the problem before they can fix it. I'm not sure that the VW fix totally eliminates the issues and think there are other solutions that might give you better results. As far as doing nothing, you stand the chance of injesting water into the engine, hydrolocking, and potentially bending rods.

One big thing to remember with these diesels is do not continuallt crank them trying to get it to fire. You can damage teh starter and also increase the potential of a fire by roasting the starter. Give it a try to two, and if she doesn't catch. Stop and wait. It might be a few minutes or a few hours. It really depends on where you are and where you're trying to get to when it doesn't start.
 

lizwagen

Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2020
Location
Kansas City
TDI
2011 Jetta Wagon
Covered under TDI warranty

I had this issue with my 2011 Jetta a lot. (The worst one, it was 18ºF and it was completely locked up and I had to stand freezing, waiting for the tow truck.) Once VW determined the intercooler problem, they covered the repair even though I was at 78k. If they fight you about it, just make a case for it being part of engine intake and a part that only TDIs have. It's a factory defect after all.
 

06bluebeetletdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Location
Middlesex, NC
TDI
'14 Passat TDI SEL and '13 Beetle TDI
I’m with matt927, the bug will be wearing a cover this winter, i started in January after my 2nd frozen intercooler incident (my tale is in the jetta intercooler thread).
 

funoutdoors121

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Location
CT (USA)
TDI
15 GSW S 6MT
Had a 2009 and now 2015 GSW TDI, and on both used pipe insulation to block off both lower and some of the upper grill.
Never had an intercooler issue in last 11 years so would also suggest giving it a shot, as very simple and cheap to implement.
One can custom cut the foam pipe insulation for a nice fit, and then save those pieces after removal in spring for use the following year.
 

Matt927

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Location
Northeast
TDI
several
You won't have an issue with your 2015 and intercooler icing but covering your grille will still aid in warm up and temperature retention. I still covered my lower grille in my 2015. I never noticed any faster warm up time via the scan gauge with the three circuit cooling system in the 2015 before I covered the grille.
 

jesus_man

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Location
North Dakota
TDI
2005 Jetta (gone), 2002 Passat (gone), 2009 JSW (VW bought), 2010 JSW
I thought I had posted in here before and I know I started my own thread on this, but hopefully this will help someone else. Sometimes the water would run thru the engine while headed down the highway. It would lose power and speed and usually would happen when you are putting higher pressures into the intake system (as in passing someone). One thing I noticed when the car did this is a plume of white smoke (which I can only assume is steam) while it was happening.

Anyway, here is what I did with great success!
I bought these supplies:


Drilled and tapped a hole in the plastic tube and using JB weld, threaded the elbow in like this:


I ran the plastic tubing to the drivers side and initially had it running thru a valve and into a gatorade bottle (I have since moved it for good reason, so keep reading):


Here are some results:



But I continued to have issues because the condensation really pools when the car is off and cooling down. So my drain would require pressure in order to pump the water into the gatorade bottle. If the engine won't start, you aren't getting any pressure. So I moved my valve down to the triangular opening in front of the drivers tire and when the car wouldn't start, I would open the valve and generally get the water to drain out and the car would then start. But I feared that if it got cold enough, the water would freeze and I couldn't drain it.

So I decided to leave the valve ever so slightly cracked open and I can say that almost a year later and 12k miles, I haven't had any more issues, other than some sooty drippings where the car was parked and some soot covered suspension components.
 

crashtested

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Location
Nelson, BC
TDI
2014 GSW Trendline 6MT, 2004 Jetta GLS 5MT (sold), 2010 GSW Highline 6MT (buy back)
Just got a call from my dealer after asking them to install the cold weather kit and they said NO. We have to be able to diagnose it first. Well it's left me on the road dead several times would you like me to have it towed 3.5hrs to you the next time it happens? :mad:

On the phone with VoC to see if they can nudge the dealer to put it in. I'd rather not drive 7hrs round trip just to be left dead on the road when it happens again!

No dice... Fizuck!
 
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bmor89

Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2020
Location
Parts unknown
TDI
2013 Golf
Crashtested, that sounds about right from my experience as well. I had my first hard start of the season yesterday, and yes I’ve had my lower grille covered with pipe insulation for the past few weeks. I’ve gotten good at anticipating the problem and recording a video of it happening. I think the only sure fire way of solving this problem is to do whatever you can to sell the car and never buy another VW.

Also for what it’s worth, I have the cold weather kit on mine and I’ve towed it to the dealership a half dozen times in the year and a half I’ve owned it.
 
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crashtested

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Location
Nelson, BC
TDI
2014 GSW Trendline 6MT, 2004 Jetta GLS 5MT (sold), 2010 GSW Highline 6MT (buy back)
This isn't my first rodeo, the kit address the problem but in no way fixes it completely from my experience having had it installed on the 2010 GSW.

If I lived closer to a dealer I wouldn't worry about it but when its 3.5hrs one way what do you do?

Crashtested, that sounds about right from my experience as well. I had my first hard start of the season yesterday, and yes I’ve had my lower grille covered with pipe insulation for the past few weeks. I’ve gotten good at anticipating the problem and recording a video of it happening. I think the only sure fire way of solving this problem is to do whatever you can to sell the car and never buy another VW. :rolleyes:

Also for what it’s worth, I have the cold weather kit on mine and I’ve towed it to the dealership a half dozen times in the year and a half I’ve owned it.
 

akjdouglass

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2013
Location
Jefferson City, Missouri
TDI
2012 Jetta w/premium (sold to VW); 2014 Jetta Value Edition; 2015 Jetta SEL
This isn't my first rodeo, the kit address the problem but in no way fixes it completely from my experience having had it installed on the 2010 GSW.

If I lived closer to a dealer I wouldn't worry about it but when its 3.5hrs one way what do you do?
I pulled the glow plugs and turned the engine over a few times to blow out the water each time it has happened to me. If you do this, throw a towel over the plug holes to avoid making a mess under the hood.
 

crashtested

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Location
Nelson, BC
TDI
2014 GSW Trendline 6MT, 2004 Jetta GLS 5MT (sold), 2010 GSW Highline 6MT (buy back)
So wheeled into the dealership yesterday for the P2015 & P2008 codes. Explained to the Tech the hard start and low & behold I quailfied for the
Cold Weather Intercooler Kit :rolleyes: I knew I did! So needless to say, they replaeced the intake yesterday but had to order in the kit because the SM wouldn't do it last week when she called to confirm my appointment - "it has to be digansed, I won't order in a $1400 just because".

They sent me home in a 2019 Jetta Execline 6MT with M&S tires on it, not road legal for the area I travel in but said that's all they put on their loaners. So I had to add an extra 1.5hrs to my drive home to avoid a 2000m mountain pass and now I have to drive back (7hrs round trip) to get my car Saturday adding in an additional trip that was not in my schedule.
 

Blindsider

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Location
Upstate NY
TDI
10 JSW and 15 Golf dsg
Has anyone had this happen again after getting their intercooler system “fixed”? My Jetta is doing the same thing it did when it froze last year. It was fixed but the dealership is notoriously incompetent. Checked the hose underneath the passenger side and poured out about 12oz of water and really sludgey oil inside. Is that still normal post fix or is it hydro-locked once again? It was starting and almost fully on, died and now nothing when you turn the key. Battery is fully charged. I pulled a chunk of ice out of that hose when it originally went bad.
 

bmor89

Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2020
Location
Parts unknown
TDI
2013 Golf
Has anyone had this happen again after getting their intercooler system “fixed”? My Jetta is doing the same thing it did when it froze last year. It was fixed but the dealership is notoriously incompetent. Checked the hose underneath the passenger side and poured out about 12oz of water and really sludgey oil inside. Is that still normal post fix or is it hydro-locked once again? It was starting and almost fully on, died and now nothing when you turn the key. Battery is fully charged. I pulled a chunk of ice out of that hose when it originally went bad.
I've towed mine back to the dealer a couple times after having the "fix" installed. Last time they decided it needed a new kit so I'm on my second one now. They couldn't tell me what was wrong with the first kit they put on, just that the VW engineers told them they need to install a new one. If I were the manager of a service department I'd want to know a little more detail about why they're replacing thousands of dollars worth of parts repeatedly, but that's not the way my local VW dealership operates. I assume they're just throwing parts at it until it's no longer under warranty.
 

Matt927

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Location
Northeast
TDI
several
Interesting. I would like to know what failed on the original kit. Their fix kit is not perfect and cars still experience icing events. Volkswagen's emissions fix is heavy on EGR and that is making the problem worse. Are you guys covering your grille? At least the lower/wide portion?
 

Blindsider

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Location
Upstate NY
TDI
10 JSW and 15 Golf dsg
They said the starter was bad and actually checked it but also stated it threw an intercooler code. Quoted me a nice $900 to replace the starter. I just laughed at them. Bought one from Advanced Auto and replaced it in the dealership parking lot. But of course it still didn’t start. Guy was shocked I could replace it within an hour. So they’re going to really check it out tomorrow once the tech is back. Original paperwork from when they replaced the intercooler doesn’t show any software update. Not sure that means it wasn’t done. I will start covering the middle vent as the sides have the fog lights already. Looked like the short little wire on the original starter cracked so no big deal replacing it with a new one. The saga continues.
 
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