Hard Start / No Start - Is your intercooler frozen? Check Here!

[alext91]

Only thing throwing me for a loop is the fact you mentioned after it died and you tried starting again that it turned over really fast before catching.

Typical IC icing has the starter act as if the battery is dead and not being able to turn over the engine due to water in the compression chambers.

Maybe the conditions were just right you sucked up enough water to stall it but not enough to mildly hydro lock the engine.

Either way my coworkers GF with a Gen1 had the pleasure of spending $90 for Rochester VW to tell him his "fuel gelled" even though he was able to get the car started after waiting 20 min. Even showing them the TSB they told him pound sand and thanks for the $90.

Temps early in November were perfect for IC icing, high humidity before the cold snap and than rock bottom temps.

Sounds about right for Rochester. So I guess my post wasn't very clear. After it died, the first time I cranked it it turned over twice then wouldn't turn any more. After that it was cranking quickly on subsequent attempts

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[winks]

would this be covered under the extended emissions warranty? According to the booklet, the egr should be covered, but according to my local dealer it is not.
Has anyone gone through this successfully, under the emissions warranty?

 

[740GLE]

Sounds about right for Rochester. So I guess my post wasn't very clear. After it died, the first time I cranked it it turned over twice then wouldn't turn any more. After that it was cranking quickly on subsequent attempts

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

The best part is that Rochester VW (back when it was Baranger) installed the TSB IC on my 2010 Jetta.





This was taken waaay back in their shop during the first 10K oil change before the TSB was installed.

 

[KamloopsDan]

Hey everyone,

I have recently purchased a 2013 Golf Wagon TDI and l live in a cold part of British Columbia.

My question is, is there a way for me to visually tell if my car has had the 'fix'? I mean is there a part that I can look at under the hood that will tell me if my car has had the updated parts fitted or not? If so, can you please show me what I am looking for?

Thanks

 

[crashtested]

Call the dealer and get them to check the VIN? What part of BC is the cold part... Anything North of 100 Mile House lol

 

[KamloopsDan]

Call the dealer and get them to check the VIN? What part of BC is the cold part... Anything North of 100 Mile House lol

OK I will try my dealer. I live in Kamloops but travel all over BC. Was -13c last night and she started up like it was Summer this morning.

 

[winks]

this is the amount of water/oil mix that drained out after 1hr commute. I'm starting to reconsider my purchase ....even with the drain hole, how of of this **** is still making its way into the engine

 

[Loafing]

Posted this in the section 2.0 Gen 1 post fix impressions, issues, etc.


740GLE explains my experience very well....




About a week ago(Nov 22), had a full blown "hydrolock" on starting 2009 Jetta TDI with 245k. Happened this bad only once before, many yrs ago. The engine stumbled and died on first attempt to start. Subsequent attempt, battery could not turn over engine. Jumped battery in second car but still wouldn't turn over & realized the dreaded slurpy was ingested. After many short bursts on the starter, engine turned over & fired on some of the cylinders & died a few times before it would stay lit. After a while, all smoothed out & no after effects, in fact did an 1800km run up north & back. Battery is in it's 10th year so thought that was the issue until I scrolled back in the memory banks to the previous event.


I am assuming cylinders had only taken in enough liquid to boost compression so high starter motor couldn't turn over the engine.


My measured fuel consumption is up 10% post fix (mfd understates fuel consumption 10%).





Not impressed...

 

[robertsparker]

Add me to those that experienced my first fully Hydro-locked no start engine. I’ve had stumbles on my last 9 yeas of ownership on my 2010 jsw, but never a complete stop. I got in car (145k miles) and started today temps in high 40’s after several weeks of 20 degree driving. Turned it over it caught, then stumbled and stopped completely. Further restart attempts act like dead battery and a starter click and no engine movement. Tomorrow i’ll drain i/c intake hose but a little worried about getting it turned over. I’m wondering if i should try and pull the fuel injectors or glow plugs to allow the engine to breath freely. Seems like a lot of work. I’ve never pulled them before and need to search for that procedure. Would turning it backwards with a wrench on the crank pulley help clear it. Any advice on what to do now that its locked up to get it free spinning again?

 

[robertsparker]

Got it going again. I pushed into the garage, got it up on jack stands, removed lower splash shield drained passenger intercooler pipe, i captured fluid, enough to fill a 12 oz jelly jar, plus some still left over. I put a 19 mm socket on a breaker bar and turned engine backwards a few revolutions. I then tried to start it, however motor spun but stopped again on compression stroke. I decided to try pulling fuel injectors to give the water an exit path. I pulled the fuel lines, pulled the fuel return line (the outside upper cover lifts up, use small screw driver to lighly pry up, then again to release lower clips) pulled 8 allen head bolts, lift bracket and rotate 90, pulled 8 nuts off injector bracket, then i could not fugure out how to pull injectors... darn it.... so took breaker bar back on engine and rotated very slowly. Then put a large socket and spun engine in forward direction possibly 20 revolutions. I reinstalled my injector nuts, bolts fuel lines, and back to the starter. Happily it now cranked over and spun the engine. As the fuel lines were removed earlier it took 20 seconds or so before starting to run again ( which i was happy to let the starter crank any water out of cylinders and got myperfect idle and tdi back running again. The fuel injector pull probably didn’t help me, but slowly cranking in forward direction made it go. Hopefully no bent rods but how will you know until the engine is dissembled. Lessons.... high humidity and sub 20 degree weather and short 2 mile work commute are not this cars friend. I should have drained my intercooler passenger line after i had had a few stummble starts. I had had a few in the last week or so. I believe there was enough water (and sludge) in the intercooler tube to have filled it completely with ice melt on the first 40 plus degree day. The engine drank like a coke through a straw. Probably time to use a different car for short winter commutes, or possibly pull the tube and drain it once a month. I read about drilling a hole but can’t bring myself to do it. I see it as being effective but would reallly hate to clean up the mess, especially as its going to land on the splash shield. First full stop in 10yrs of sense new ownership. I’ve still got 10 more years to go. Chris criss apple sauce.

 

[bobt2382]

Got it going again. I pushed into the garage, got it up on jack stands, removed lower splash shield drained passenger intercooler pipe, i captured fluid, enough to fill a 12 oz jelly jar, plus some still left over. I put a 19 mm socket on a breaker bar and turned engine backwards a few revolutions. I then tried to start it, however motor spun but stopped again on compression stroke. I decided to try pulling fuel injectors to give the water an exit path. I pulled the fuel lines, pulled the fuel return line (the outside upper cover lifts up, use small screw driver to lighly pry up, then again to release lower clips) pulled 8 allen head bolts, lift bracket and rotate 90, pulled 8 nuts off injector bracket, then i could not fugure out how to pull injectors... darn it.... so took breaker bar back on engine and rotated very slowly. Then put a large socket and spun engine in forward direction possibly 20 revolutions. I reinstalled my injector nuts, bolts fuel lines, and back to the starter. Happily it now cranked over and spun the engine. As the fuel lines were removed earlier it took 20 seconds or so before starting to run again ( which i was happy to let the starter crank any water out of cylinders and got myperfect idle and tdi back running again. The fuel injector pull probably didn’t help me, but slowly cranking in forward direction made it go. Hopefully no bent rods but how will you know until the engine is dissembled. Lessons.... high humidity and sub 20 degree weather and short 2 mile work commute are not this cars friend. I should have drained my intercooler passenger line after i had had a few stummble starts. I had had a few in the last week or so. I believe there was enough water (and sludge) in the intercooler tube to have filled it completely with ice melt on the first 40 plus degree day. The engine drank like a coke through a straw. Probably time to use a different car for short winter commutes, or possibly pull the tube and drain it once a month. I read about drilling a hole but can’t bring myself to do it. I see it as being effective but would reallly hate to clean up the mess, especially as its going to land on the splash shield. First full stop in 10yrs of sense new ownership. I’ve still got 10 more years to go. Chris criss apple sauce.

Happy to read you got the water cleared and it started!

 

[Loafing]

Got it going again. I pushed into the garage, got it up on jack stands, removed lower splash shield drained passenger intercooler pipe, i captured fluid, enough to fill a 12 oz jelly jar, plus some still left over. I put a 19 mm socket on a breaker bar and turned engine backwards a few revolutions. I then tried to start it, however motor spun but stopped again on compression stroke. I decided to try pulling fuel injectors to give the water an exit path. I pulled the fuel lines, pulled the fuel return line (the outside upper cover lifts up, use small screw driver to lighly pry up, then again to release lower clips) pulled 8 allen head bolts, lift bracket and rotate 90, pulled 8 nuts off injector bracket, then i could not fugure out how to pull injectors... darn it.... so took breaker bar back on engine and rotated very slowly. Then put a large socket and spun engine in forward direction possibly 20 revolutions. I reinstalled my injector nuts, bolts fuel lines, and back to the starter. Happily it now cranked over and spun the engine. As the fuel lines were removed earlier it took 20 seconds or so before starting to run again ( which i was happy to let the starter crank any water out of cylinders and got myperfect idle and tdi back running again. The fuel injector pull probably didn’t help me, but slowly cranking in forward direction made it go. Hopefully no bent rods but how will you know until the engine is dissembled. Lessons.... high humidity and sub 20 degree weather and short 2 mile work commute are not this cars friend. I should have drained my intercooler passenger line after i had had a few stummble starts. I had had a few in the last week or so. I believe there was enough water (and sludge) in the intercooler tube to have filled it completely with ice melt on the first 40 plus degree day. The engine drank like a coke through a straw. Probably time to use a different car for short winter commutes, or possibly pull the tube and drain it once a month. I read about drilling a hole but can’t bring myself to do it. I see it as being effective but would reallly hate to clean up the mess, especially as its going to land on the splash shield. First full stop in 10yrs of sense new ownership. I’ve still got 10 more years to go. Chris criss apple sauce.

My theory is that after pushing a "hydrolocked" piston/cylinder into the compression mode & leaving it there, air leaks out via ring clearances (I have other examples showing gas will find the exit before liquid).


Once the TDC pressure is lowered to starter motor/battery capability, the engine turns over (and because all of the wet, dies).



Doing this repeatedly with generous pause between attempts enabled me twice to start the "hydrolocked" engine without any symptoms of con rod or other damage.



I use the term "hydrolocked" in quotes because I am quite certain that the headspace is not filled to the brim with water, rather, just enough water is ingested to raise compression so high the starter motor/battery can't cope.



I still have the original battery (11 yrs) on my 09 Jet & during most recent event figured dead battery before second thoughts led me to repeat the procedure.

 

[Legolas337]

Having similar issues to most here, drilled hole in intake and drain daily but still having issues starting when hot. Starts for a few seconds and then dies. Couldn't figure it out, stopped by the dealer and they scanned it and came up with an intermittent fault code for the camshaft position sensor that would not throw the CEL. Said that it is covered under the warranty even though it's not throwing the CEL but they are getting the fault code. Just thought I would post here in case others are having an issue with hot starts. Couldn't find this anywhere else.

 

[06bluebeetletdi]

Am I the only one that had the “cold weather” kit installed and ended up with a frozen intercooler? 2013 beetle tdi - purchased 2/14, first frozen intercooler - 1/12/17 - 52,900 miles, 2nd 1/22/20 - 89,200 miles. Glad my Passat tdi doesn’t have this issue.

 

[Matt927]

No, there have been cases of the cold weather intercooler kit freezing up on other vehicles.

 

[Swinging Steel]

Possible coverage under dieselgate warranty?

"The emissions system warranty shall cover the following parts or systems:
The entire exhaust after treatment system, including the Diesel Oxidation Catalyst, the Diesel Particulate Filter, the Selective Catalytic Reduction converter, the dosing injector and other Diesel Exhaust Fluid system components, the exhaust flap, and all sensors and actuators
The entire fuel system, including fuel pumps, high pressure fuel rail, fuel injectors, vibration damper, pressure control valve and all sensors and actuators
The EGR system, including EGR valves, EGR cooler, EGR filter, EGR
temperature sensor, all related hoses and pipes, and all sensors
and actuators
The turbocharger, including the turbocharger damper
The On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) system, including SCR DEF quality sensor, and any malfunctions detected by the OBD systems other than those related to the transmission.
Additionally, the engine long block warranty shall cover the engine sub-assembly that consists of the assembled block, crankshaft, cylinder head, camshaft, and valve train.

The extended emissions warranty includes parts, labor, and applicable taxes. The extended emissions warranty shall not void or supersede any existing warranty. Conflicts concerning the warranty are to be resolved in favor of the consumer."



If I'm having the hard-starting problems every other week, and the wife cranks it every time until it will run, and the engine throws a rod, and I've already raised the concern with my dealer, how much of a PITA would it be to get them to cover the repair?

 

[mydecember1985]

Can something like this happen just above freezing? We live in Florida with high humidity. If it's in the 30s and maybe 40s, I sometimes get what seems like a water ingestion or fuel starvation stutter.
If I let the car idle for a bit or sometimes after sitting with engine stopped for a short while and I fire it back up, the first good boost pull in first or second will feel like water ingestion or fuel starvation. It stumbles and stutters with a loss of power. It does this for maybe 1, no more than 2 seconds and it's fine.
Thanks

 

[06bluebeetletdi]

Try pulling the intercooler hose on the passenger side of the car. You can undo the end with the hose clamp and ease it back with a screwdriver, be prepared for liquid to come out.

 

[kjclow]

Can something like this happen just above freezing? We live in Florida with high humidity. If it's in the 30s and maybe 40s, I sometimes get what seems like a water ingestion or fuel starvation stutter.
If I let the car idle for a bit or sometimes after sitting with engine stopped for a short while and I fire it back up, the first good boost pull in first or second will feel like water ingestion or fuel starvation. It stumbles and stutters with a loss of power. It does this for maybe 1, no more than 2 seconds and it's fine.
Thanks

From some of the earlier posts in this thread, yes. It's not really the freezing temps that cause the problem, it's the condensation within the IC hose. In highly humid weather, there's a lot of moisture running through the hot hose will then cool into water once the engine shuts off. And when isn't Florida humid? Look for posts from jet pilot.

 

[06bluebeetletdi]

Update on my 2nd frozen intercooler: i drained 2.5 cups (20 ounces) out of the passenger intercooler hose. The car tried to start, then made a strange noise. Stopped and had it towed to the dealer (thanks tdi car roadside assistance). They checked it over, luckily no water was ingested, attempts to start resulted in a weak battery. The car is fine, ran great on the way home. Seriously thinking about a cold weather front for it as well as checking that hose every 5,000 miles.

 

[Sootman]

I had this happen this summer then again about 1 month ago on my 2011 TDI Golf. The 2nd time it happened I was sent to the VW dealer where they replaced my throttle body and a pipe connecting it, and the intercooler. This was all covered by the 120,000 mile warranty. I had bought the car with 71,000 miles from a used car dealer in town who knew how the VW dealer would respond. Car runs much better.

 

[Swinging Steel]

my dealer seems to be shying away from doing anything about this issue.
again today I had a bit of a rough start leaving work. this time a tremendous vibration was sent through the car for the 10-20 seconds the symptoms lasted.
Called danbury vw (where we bought it) and told me there's nothing they can do unless its showing symptoms when they examine it. I'm just concerned the engine eventually will throw a rod and I'm going to have to fight tooth and nail to get anything to happen.
The last thing I want to do to a warranteed car is drill holes in the IC piping, or anything else that may void the coverage....but it seems the coverage isn't going very far at this dealership. I'm also hesitant after hearing about service depts. commonly blaming fuel for these types of engine problems.

Anyone have a suggestion for me?

 

[Matt927]

Cover your lower grille. I have had zero issues on cars without the kit and covering the lower grille in the winter.

 

[06bluebeetletdi]

I am covering the grill on my bug now. I made the cover easy to remove and install to keep up with the quickly changing nc weather.

 

[ebain21]

Hey everyone, I had what I think was an intercooler icing issue this morning. It's still under CPO warranty so I didn't want to mess with it and it's currently at the dealer. I'll post updates as I hear more.

It's been below freezing for a while, with some precipitation but not huge amounts of humidity. I was gone for the weekend and both saturday and sunday it warmed up significantly to around 45F. It hasn't been that warm for a month or two at least. I went to start my car this morning at about 29F and it fired up right away and then died after a second or two. I attempted to start it one more time and nothing (felt like a dead battery, but the battery is new and it was just running). I called for a tow truck and had it towed to a dealer.

My only concern is that they'll diagnose it correctly and that hopefully I'll get the TSB fix under CPO warranty. If it bent a rod or something to that effect, it would run poorly or not at all, correct? I want to make sure the dealer won't miss something serious. Again, hoping all is well, but the way it died immediately and didn't turn over was obviously concerning. I've had it run rough initially, but nothing this severe before.

Edit: It's a 2012 golf TDI manual with around 71,500 miles.

 

[Rembrant]

No, there have been cases of the cold weather intercooler kit freezing up on other vehicles.

I am having intercooler issues also, and my car apparently has the cold weather intercooler kit.

Is there a way to test it with VCDS?

Or do I need to take the thing apart and drain the water out of it anyway?

Any comments good or bad on what I need to do?

I took it to the dealer and it is not covered under the extended TDI warranty, so I guess I'm on my own.

 

[06bluebeetletdi]

Ebain21, sounds exactly like my bug, the battery was only a few days old. Apparently, it takes a lot of power out of the battery to try and turn the motor when there is probably a bit of water in cylinder 3 and it kills the battery.

Rembrant, take the passenger intercooler hose off and drain it. Mine has the cold weather kit, but that didn’t stop it from collecting 2.5 cups of water. If it doesn’t start after that, check the battery, that was my issue after draining the water.

 

[Rembrant]

Rembrant, take the passenger intercooler hose off and drain it. Mine has the cold weather kit, but that didn’t stop it from collecting 2.5 cups of water.

Ok, fair enough. I can do that. Is this something that should be done every oil change, or more (much more) often?

 

[ebain21]

Ebain21, sounds exactly like my bug, the battery was only a few days old. Apparently, it takes a lot of power out of the battery to try and turn the motor when there is probably a bit of water in cylinder 3 and it kills the battery.

I don't think it was the battery at all, it definitely seemed like it ingested water because it was running and died a few seconds later and then wouldn't attempt to even turn over right after that. I believe I've read that if the resistance is too high on the starter, it prevents it from attempting to turn over to save the starter and prevent fires.

Update on my vehicle: The dealer found moisture in the charge air pipe and is installing the cold weather intercooler kit under warranty. Hopefully that solves it, I may try to find a winter front next winter as well.

 

[06bluebeetletdi]

Ok, fair enough. I can do that. Is this something that should be done every oil change, or more (much more) often?

I am going to check mine at the next oil change, it will be at 1200 miles since i just emptied it, then every 5k.