Hard Start / No Start - Is your intercooler frozen? Check Here!

[ytjetta]

Just experienced symptom today of frozen intercooler . Drove to work fine this morning and parked underground parking level P3. Tried to start it in the afternoon 4pm to go home and it died after a few seconds. Tried one more time. So I stopped. The temp has been 20-25F and even lower with wind chill for the past two days. Also, I usually park outside on the street when at home.

Question is: is this covered by the new dieselgate warranty? I read the TSB from 2012.

ytjetta
2014 Jetta SportWagen 31k miles
(bought from dealer last month CPO)

 

[Matt927]

No not the diesel gate warranty as far as I know but should be covered by your two year bumper to bumper CPO warranty.

Did you have the car towed to the dealer? Should install the cold weather intercooler kit for you or you cold just run a lower grille block in the winter.

 

[Miser_TDI]

Edit 1: Going to the dealer today for them to "diagnose" the car. (unless there is a stored code due to the rough start/stalling there are no lights on, and I have not scanned it with my VCDS) Yes I know it will be a goose chase. VWoA regional rep is going to call me back regarding loaner. It would be nice if it would be just the flap in the new intercooler is stuck open or similar... Will keep updating as things happen.

Edit 1: VW called back, said will do research and call me back by end of business day Friday. Fingers crossed. They declined my option of finding a fixed TDI to use a loaner so they could troubleshoot, figured as much. It was worth a shot. Will edit more when I hear more.


Hopefully replying to my own post is not too bad of form.

Went to dealer yesterday late afternoon, they "diagnosed" it for free, and of course as I thought found no codes. Almost makes me wish I would have scanned it with VCDS before I called them to tell them it had no codes, saving me the round trip.

When VW calls me back, I am going to attempt to get them to somehow get me a loaner (they've got plenty of "fixed" TDI's they could give me, let me borrow a 2015 MT, any model, ha ...) because this is going to take more than just reading codes. Needs old school troubleshooting. Need to have very cold temps, drive it around, stomp on it a bit, then park it in a heated garage. I'd almost guarantee that that's how you replicate it.

The dealer says VW won't even let them talk to VW's "tech support" without a code. I told them "what about a cell phone video of the problem after first initial stall?

I really don't like having to suggest things to the dealer, but wouldn't you have thought they would have checked the flap/door in the new intercooler to make sure it's not stuck open, vacuum line fell off, etc. PREVENT the problem vs. give me a new engine if it blows up. The dealer even suggested fuel filter, etc. As the saying goes, "come on, man, that's just throwing parts at it."


I guess the bright side is the dealer didn't charge me anything for the diag, not that I would have paid.


Hopefully VW calls me today. Will edit this most when I have more info. Just frustrating, that's all. If I wasn't concerned about the warranty, I would just tune it and be done with it. I'm having to hold myself back from saying "eff it" and just tuning it.



-Miser

 

[ytjetta]

Car fixed now

Got the car towed to the dealership I bought it from. According to them, they diagnosed and found no codes and also checked battery and starter motor which passed test. They also said that they checked the intercooler and found nothing. However, they found that the fuel filter was clogged (job doesn't say what clogged it) which starved the engine. Fuel filter was replaced (not covered by warranty).
ytjetta

Just experienced symptom today of frozen intercooler . Drove to work fine this morning and parked underground parking level P3. Tried to start it in the afternoon 4pm to go home and it died after a few seconds. Tried one more time. So I stopped. The temp has been 20-25F and even lower with wind chill for the past two days. Also, I usually park outside on the street when at home.
Question is: is this covered by the new dieselgate warranty? I read the TSB from 2012.
ytjetta
2014 Jetta SportWagen 31k miles
(bought from dealer last month CPO)

 

[kjclow]

Wonder if it was gelled fuel that caused your no/hard start issues.

 

[ytjetta]

Does the fuel stay gelled even when the temp is above 40F? The parking garage was around 42F when i tried to start the car. Should i add power service diesel fuel supplement just in case?

Wonder if it was gelled fuel that caused your no/hard start issues.

 

[Matt927]

Does the fuel stay gelled even when the temp is above 40F? The parking garage was around 42F when i tried to start the car. Should i add power service diesel fuel supplement just in case?

At that temperature no, your fuel should not have gelled. We are long enough into the winter season that all diesel purchased should been treated properly and even if it wasn't, 42F is not cold.

Running a fuel additive like OptiLube XPD in every tank will not only prevent fuel gelling but also benefit your fuel system in other ways as well.

 

[rotarykid]

Does the fuel stay gelled even when the temp is above 40F? The parking garage was around 42F when i tried to start the car. Should i add power service diesel fuel supplement just in case?

The only time I have ever had this happen was in October or Early November. But this late in the season the only way I see that happening is if the station where you got the fuel at had too much untreated fuel in the ground when they refilled with winter mix. If you are not sure about your fuel being treated for cold, don't risk it you add a qt of white bottle Power Service......

 

[crashtested]

Drove to work yesterday morning and it was -7c and parked outside all day in -3c. After work I had a rough start, stall, rough start, stall then floored it trying to keep the revs up and seemed to recover and be ok. Cold AF again this morning and all was well. Fingers crossed.

 

[ytjetta]

Rotarykid, i think you may be right! I usually fill up at known brand stations near where I live where a lot of diesel vehicles fuel up. The night before my car failed to start, however, I filled up in another part of town at a gas station whose brand I am not familiar with. I was near empty and remember pumping around 8-9 gallons.
ytjetta
2014 sportwagen tdi

The only time I have ever had this happen was in October or Early November. But this late in the season the only way I see that happening is if the station where you got the fuel at had too much untreated fuel in the ground when they refilled with winter mix. If you are not sure about your fuel being treated for cold, don't risk it you add a qt of white bottle Power Service......

 

[Keith63]

If car is out of warranty, it will cost $1,300.00 for install. Part alone is $608.08

 

[B25guy]

No start but have the IC TSB

Had a no start last week. I had the IC TSB fix done to the car back in 2011 when i lived in Texas. I now live in Washington state since 2012 and winters until now haven't been a problem. Coincidentally, the weather pattern has been very similar to the winter in TX in 2011...weeks of below freezing, high humidity and snow. So my car has been sitting out at home or at work for the last few nasty weeks with no problems starting so i decided to put in my heated garage. The very next morning, i started it and it ran for a second or so then abruptly stopped. I tried one more time and it groaned...i recognized that sound from 2011! I called the local dealer and discussed the issue but couldn't get an "aha" from them telling me they recognized this as ever happening?? I had it towed down there and when i got there the service mgr. called VWoA Warranty to see if it would be covered under the new extended emission fix warranty (which i just had done last summer...clue here) and they said it would be covered. Well, went to pick it up today and imagine my surprise when they said nothing was broke and they couldn't find anything wrong with it except for a 1/4 cup of water in the IC! After it was towed there, it had been sitting for probably 6 hours so like the first time it happened, the water will drain out of the combustion chamber sufficiently to allow a restart...albeit very rough and stumbling. Tech did the right thing by putting a wrench on the crank to turn it manually before starting. As expected, it started and it ran rough for a while until it cleared up...just like before. The only feedback from their senior tech was low battery (had been starting just fine in single-digit mornings for weeks already??) or bad or gelled fuel (in a heated garage??). They harped on bad fuel as the probable culprit. I have six diesels engines in my stable of vehicles; a $50k Detroit S60, $30k CAT, $10k Cummins and two Kubotas...all of which use the same fuel sources and most have see-through fuel bowls (and all are currently running) and I wouldn't risk a one to budget fuel...i'm not buying their response. I s Now i have to contact VWoA to get this bill sorted out.

 

[CrustyOreo]

Had a no start last week. I had the IC TSB fix done to the car back in 2011 when i lived in Texas. I now live in Washington state since 2012 and winters until now haven't been a problem. Coincidentally, the weather pattern has been very similar to the winter in TX in 2011...weeks of below freezing, high humidity and snow. So my car has been sitting out at home or at work for the last few nasty weeks with no problems starting so i decided to put in my heated garage. The very next morning, i started it and it ran for a second or so then abruptly stopped. I tried one more time and it groaned...i recognized that sound from 2011! I called the local dealer and discussed the issue but couldn't get an "aha" from them telling me they recognized this as ever happening?? I had it towed down there and when i got there the service mgr. called VWoA Warranty to see if it would be covered under the new extended emission fix warranty (which i just had done last summer...clue here) and they said it would be covered. Well, went to pick it up today and imagine my surprise when they said nothing was broke and they couldn't find anything wrong with it except for a 1/4 cup of water in the IC! After it was towed there, it had been sitting for probably 6 hours so like the first time it happened, the water will drain out of the combustion chamber sufficiently to allow a restart...albeit very rough and stumbling. Tech did the right thing by putting a wrench on the crank to turn it manually before starting. As expected, it started and it ran rough for a while until it cleared up...just like before. The only feedback from their senior tech was low battery (had been starting just fine in single-digit mornings for weeks already??) or bad or gelled fuel (in a heated garage??). They harped on bad fuel as the probable culprit. I have six diesels engines in my stable of vehicles; a $50k Detroit S60, $30k CAT, $10k Cummins and two Kubotas...all of which use the same fuel sources and most have see-through fuel bowls (and all are currently running) and I wouldn't risk a one to budget fuel...i'm not buying their response. I s Now i have to contact VWoA to get this bill sorted out.

Big ol' F

 

[ATR]

Just a friendly reminder guys that there's a DIY fix that will help reduce or eliminate this from happening:

https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=431560

 

[B25guy]

Thanks for the reminder. After more thought, I think not covering my lower front this winter may be the cause of the re-occurrence. I installed a tow plate to be able to tow four down behind my bus and all the brackets are in that grill area. Since I had the TSB installed in 2011, I have covered the lower front with pipe foam every winter but this one. So perhaps the TSB didn’t really fix anything?? Next thing will be to drill the drain hole.

 

[kjclow]

Lots of people reported that the VW TSB did not really fix the issue. Just helped in a few marginal cases.

 

[ATR]

Thanks for the reminder. After more thought, I think not covering my lower front this winter may be the cause of the re-occurrence. I installed a tow plate to be able to tow four down behind my bus and all the brackets are in that grill area. Since I had the TSB installed in 2011, I have covered the lower front with pipe foam every winter but this one. So perhaps the TSB didn’t really fix anything?? Next thing will be to drill the drain hole.

Pretty much what kjclow said. Never really helped...
I know when I had my '11 I had the lower cover in place when the winter came on and it really helped speed up warm up times along with preventing the no start condition. I do remember having one time where it was a hard start... but that was before I had the cover in place.

 

[Mark1331]

I have been using the IDparts winter front for while now, and I love it. No more intercooler icing. Also, on a reasonably warm day recently (50 degrees) I took the care through a brush type car wash, forgot I had the winter front on. Everything remained in place nicely, if that is a concern for anyone.

 

[Matt927]

I have been using the IDparts winter front for while now, and I love it. No more intercooler icing. Also, on a reasonably warm day recently (50 degrees) I took the care through a brush type car wash, forgot I had the winter front on. Everything remained in place nicely, if that is a concern for anyone.

YES! The easiest fix to intercooler icing along with some other benefits.

Finally took mine off yesterday as we are starting to see highs in the 50s and 60s next week.

 

[jesus_man]

So, after checking for water in my system several times, it finally yielded enough water to be a concern. Trying to think outside the box here, and hoping to brainstorm collectively (unless this has already been done on the previous 359 pages) that there has to be a good solution that does not require a $570 kit + install.
Looking at the diagram, am I correct that we are to remove the rubber hose on the passenger side from the #18 in this diagram?

If so, perhaps someone more knowledgeable about parts could install some sort of drain in that hose with a small valve at the end of it that could be accessible without removing any tools.
Something on the order of a nipple off the bottom of item 18, a length of hose with this at the end.

Then you just open the valve with the engine running and blow out any water with each fill-up or something on that order?

 

[kjclow]

The suggestion buried either somewhere back in this thread or in another thread is to just drill a small drain hole in the bottom hose and let it drain rather then collect. The problem i see with a valve is knowing how often is often enough to open and close it

 

[jesus_man]

Agreed, but I also don't like unfiltered air to have a chance of entering the system.

 

[PlaneCrazy]

YES! The easiest fix to intercooler icing along with some other benefits.
Finally took mine off yesterday as we are starting to see highs in the 50s and 60s next week.

I'm not so sure. The problem isn't icing, it's condensate accumulating in the intercooler. Ice will clog it, but a slug of water can be sucked into the engine at any temperature. On my Mk VI, this happened numerous times even in +30C weather in summer. It would happen after about two weeks of accumulation. I'd pull out to pass a farm vehicle or something, nail the throttle, be in the left lane, and I'd lose all power. Very disconcerting with on-coming vehicles looming.

The only cure to that was an "Italian tune-up" at least once a week. My wife's Mk 5.5 wagon (2013) on the other hand, never had an issue and never had the intercooler kit installed, while my 2011 hatch, had the kit and it did zilch.

 

[Matt927]

Never had an issue above freezing. Warm moist EGR mixing with cooler air, condensing and then freezing caused a few rough starts running no cover. I am on my third CJAA equipped car and never had a no start or any water in the intercooler related issues causing damage, hundreds of thousands of miles on them. One car had the fix, never an issue with that car either.

 

[Samcar222]

Hi all, it's that time of the year again*––*looking at a diesel gate fixed 2013 JSW, and can't seem to find my idparts.com winter front (the three piece) from my bought back 2010... and it looks like they've discontinued them (email question pending). Anyone have a 2010-14 JSW id parts winter front for sale? $$

Thanks in advance*–

 

[DivineChaos]

Hi all, it's that time of the year again*––*looking at a diesel gate fixed 2013 JSW, and can't seem to find my idparts.com winter front (the three piece) from my bought back 2010... and it looks like they've discontinued them (email question pending). Anyone have a 2010-14 JSW id parts winter front for sale? $$

Thanks in advance*–

ive been mulling the idea of trying to make one. but i dont know what the original was made from.

 

[alext91]

I think I may have experienced this tonight... It got cold in the last few days here in NH, mid teens with some rain, and finally warmed up to about 35 today. Went to start my '13 JSW, and it fired right up, then shut down after about 3-5 seconds. Tried to start again, cranked twice then stopped cranking. Tried a few more times and it was cranking really fast but not starting. Eventually it started and ran really rough for about 10-20 seconds then ran normally. Drove it home and immediately scanned with VCDS showing no codes. Gelled fuel or IC icing? [emoji51] TIA

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[Matt927]

I think I may have experienced this tonight... It got cold in the last few days here in NH, mid teens with some rain, and finally warmed up to about 35 today. Went to start my '13 JSW, and it fired right up, then shut down after about 3-5 seconds. Tried to start again, cranked twice then stopped cranking. Tried a few more times and it was cranking really fast but not starting. Eventually it started and ran really rough for about 10-20 seconds then ran normally. Drove it home and immediately scanned with VCDS showing no codes. Gelled fuel or IC icing? [emoji51] TIA

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Up in NH your fuel should be treated now by the refinery. Do you use an additive as well?

I would suspect IC icing but that is just a guess, I assume you did not pull the passenger lower hose? My current CJAA motor has no IC kit but I am running a lower grille block when temps are steady below 50 degrees F or so. I also take the car close to redline and WOT a few times a day on my long commute.

Seems like a few Golf and JSW owners are looking for grille block kits. I had two extra kits that I could not give away post diesel gate but have now been sold. A coworker recently purchased a '14 JSW and borrowed my lower cover to create a template and was able to match the material up at Home Depot and then ordered some heavy duty vinyl off of eBay. I will try to see what he used.

The pipe insulation route is always an option, albeit ugly.

 

[alext91]

Up in NH your fuel should be treated now by the refinery. Do you use an additive as well?

I would suspect IC icing but that is just a guess, I assume you did not pull the passenger lower hose? My current CJAA motor has no IC kit but I am running a lower grille block when temps are steady below 50 degrees F or so. I also take the car close to redline and WOT a few times a day on my long commute.

Seems like a few Golf and JSW owners are looking for grille block kits. I had two extra kits that I could not give away post diesel gate but have now been sold. A coworker recently purchased a '14 JSW and borrowed my lower cover to create a template and was able to match the material up at Home Depot and then ordered some heavy duty vinyl off of eBay. I will try to see what he used.

The pipe insulation route is always an option, albeit ugly.

Yeah I'm suspecting icing too. Seems like a lot of people are successful with just a grill block. Seems simple enough. I haven't checked the lower hose. I also do not run any additive, but I will start now to eliminate that as a potential cause. I filled up most recently on Sunday at a very busy fuel station (same one I always use) so it's more than likely the fuel is "winter formula". Oh well, hoping I can prevent it, just hoping that damage wasn't caused

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[740GLE]

Only thing throwing me for a loop is the fact you mentioned after it died and you tried starting again that it turned over really fast before catching.

Typical IC icing has the starter act as if the battery is dead and not being able to turn over the engine due to water in the compression chambers.

Maybe the conditions were just right you sucked up enough water to stall it but not enough to mildly hydro lock the engine.

Either way my coworkers GF with a Gen1 had the pleasure of spending $90 for Rochester VW to tell him his "fuel gelled" even though he was able to get the car started after waiting 20 min. Even showing them the TSB they told him pound sand and thanks for the $90.

Temps early in November were perfect for IC icing, high humidity before the cold snap and than rock bottom temps.