Hard Start / No Start - Is your intercooler frozen? Check Here!

MonkeyWrench

Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2014
Location
Colorado
TDI
2012 JSW TDi
Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but the work outlined on the technical bulletin is covered under the extended warranty that comes with the emissions fix (or at least it is on my 2012 Golf w/ manual transmission). Worth looking into for those of you who kept your cars. With the current cold snap, right now is a good time to drive the car 30-40 minutes before dropping it off at the dealership. They will pull the IC lines off, look for water/ice and will most definitely find it....
I just brought home a 2012 manual JSW, bought it in Utah. Per the website: vwdiesellookup.com, this vehicle has had the emissions fix. Yesterday, I had a no start/hard start - I forgot everything I'd read on this thread regarding IC icing and turned the key for second try at starting it - it caught and ran rough for the first couple of minutes, then it settled down and ran like a dream. However, maybe I should be proactive and take it into the dealer for a fix? Which technical bulletin do I need to reference? If the dealer tries to say it's not covered under the emissions fix warranty, is there a document I can refer to in my argument?
 

ATR

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Location
Baltimore
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6MT
I'm in CT and had a few bad run-ins with IC icing. All problems went away after purchasing a winter front from idparts: https://www.idparts.com/2010-2014-g....html?osCsid=627ae5e1c7e990ac8be9ab65e22887dd

Overpriced, yes but I was desperate for a fix and was not let down. Weather you create your own or purchase I think the key is to completely block the IC inlet.

Good luck!
I've been trying to sell mine for a while now since I no longer have my mk6 golf. Shocked I haven't had any bites...

It worked great for keeping the condensation issue at bay. It also was great to keep the cabin nice and toasty :D

Shameless plug:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=467393
 

kweisel

Active member
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Location
Oklahoma City
TDI
'10 Manual Sedan
Has anyone experienced the Clutch staying engaged while this "Hydrolock" is occuring. i had what seems to be the hard/ no start scenario occur only 3 times in the history of my owning it since new. 130k on the clock. a good slime and leak in the lower intercooler hose. I suppose my "luck" thus far has been the leaky intercooler pipe that drains oil and seemingly water as well as it accumulates. The clutch today stayed half depressed during the event and i did what seems to be foolishly crank past these events and force it to run. Wondering where that has left me. :-\
Update: No lights ever illuminate no CEL; no Glow plug.
 
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Matt927

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Location
Northeast
TDI
several
Yep, ID parts front covers solved the issue for me. I only ran the lower cover on my CJAA powered cars. One had the updated intercooler fix but I still ran the covers to aid in warm up time. Just purchased another 2013 Golf TDI with tech and 6MT, need to buy another set.
 

VRCoupe

New member
Joined
Nov 19, 2018
Location
Nova Scoatia, Canada
TDI
2013 VW Jetta Highline
Hey, I signed up specifically to give my feedback on this issue as I dealt with it yesterday.
I have a 2013 Jetta Diesel, on the East Coast of Canada where we get the exact weather that seems to cause an uptick of this issue.
I have had issues starting my Jetta on mornings where the car sat for a day or so after driving in weather that fluctuates from below freezing to above freezing.
Yesterday took the cake though and had me pretty nervous. We drove the car last on Friday morning and then due to snow storms and busy work schedules the Car didn't move again until yesterday. So sat for 2.5 full days.
The car would not turn over at all, I originally suspected Battery so hooked it up to my Audi and let it charge for a bit but still wouldn't turn over.
Tried to bump start it but the tires just skidded....I was supper worried at that point but hadn't stumbled upon this thread yet.
I pulled the starter to test it and inspect what I could of the flywheel and clutch, couldn't turn the motor over by hand and thought it was toast.
I contacted a VW tech friend of mine who explained the issue of hydrolocking and told me to remove the lower inter cooler pipe as has been mentioned here many times and remove the Glow plugs to allow it to crank and evacuate the water..... But here is where my situation was different.
I drained about 2 cups of water, and pulled some ice and slush out of the Inter cooler pipes, and also removed the Glow plugs. Motor would still not budge. Totally seized.
I theorized that the motor had gotten some water up in the cylinders and it froze...creating a block. I plugged in the OE block heater (coolant pre-heater) and left it for 2 hours. When I went back out to try to turn it over (with glow plugs out) it shot an absolute TONNE of moisture out of the cylinders.
I buttoned it all back up and it fired right up. took about 7 hours of work to determine the issue and get it freed up. The block heater was my saviour.
Wanted to post about this so if someone else has the issue where they get the water out of the IC piping and the Glow Plugs out, but still can't get it to turn over....that hope isnt lost. If you have the block heater or Pre-heater as equipped by VW (on all Canadian cars, and some in the US I know as an option) then plug it in and let it sit.
Thanks for the great site and post about this HORRENDOUS problem VW has designed into it's cars. lol.
TLDR: The OE Coolant Pre-Heater or Block Heater can make getting frozen moisture out much easier
 
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SAR_TDI

Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2015
Location
denver, NC
TDI
2011 Jetta Sportswagen
Intercooler Moisture

VRCoupe: Nice post of your issue resolution. Some luck there that nothing was damaged/bent. I've lurked here and seen several solutions, mine was to cut the intercooler hose and insert a barbed pipe ~1.8" or something that I had machined, with 1/4" drain valve attached through a cutout of the belly pan. Got to make sure the hose clamps are tight or the hose blows off. During our icy/damp wintery mixes in North Carolina, I'll open the valve to drain when I get home. I thought of running a control cable to the ball valve handle, but that's too much trouble. Steve.
 

CrustyOreo

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2011
Location
Hanover, Mass
TDI
3x Golfs
This just happened on my '11 with 70k. I bought it in March with 60k.

Drove it home Thursday (temp 24* high, 14* Low
Didn't touch it Friday (temp 32* high, 15* low)
Went to go to work Saturday (45* at this time)

Cranked then stopped then cranked and just sounded "dry" as in no fuel. Thought it was maybe a battery so I threw the jump pack on it
Once it freed up it would crank but wouldn't catch and throw an oil pressure light so I stopped. It then threw, what is now a red herring, flashing GP light P0321 for the G28 crank senaor, which according to Rosstech wiki can occur when the engine fails to fire over.

Today I went and tried and the following happened:

https://youtu.be/FuP6IlHuf6o

https://youtu.be/-tKlRmKfVTQ

Took it around the neighborhood for a 25m drive with no problems (bit of white smoke at first)
But it's running fine now.

What should my next steps be? Contact the dealer for the tsb? Did I bend my rods?

I'm not driving the car for now until I figure out what to do next.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

jason_

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Location
grand rapids michigan
TDI
2015 s wagon dsg
If it really tried to pass water, It sounds like you beat the odds of bending a connecting rod from either

A. Not quite enough water to hold back the piston.

B just enough squeezed past valve faces..

So lucky... So lucky.

Check with dealer. Pull intercooler hose and drain any water.

Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk
 

Loafing

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2011
Location
Hamilton
TDI
09 Mexican Jet
Had a hard start this AM, Sunday 25 Nov 2018. Block heater was on for 12 hrs, blanket in place over engine for a bit of insulation, outdoor temp a few degrees above freezing (experiment). On switching ignition, temp showed fully warmed engine at normal operating temp (90C). Cranked, ran a bit, stumbled & died. Now temp indication dropped back to about half way between 50 & 90C. Repeated failed starts & on one occasion, starter wouldn't turn over engine (water lock?). Finally nursed engine to life & no further problems.



So, my simple question is whether I confused the starting system sensors with false temperature readings caused by 12 hrs heating block under a blanket or whether this was just another case of engine gulping a slurpie?
 
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Loafing

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2011
Location
Hamilton
TDI
09 Mexican Jet
This just happened on my '11 with 70k. I bought it in March with 60k.

Drove it home Thursday (temp 24* high, 14* Low
Didn't touch it Friday (temp 32* high, 15* low)
Went to go to work Saturday (45* at this time)

Cranked then stopped then cranked and just sounded "dry" as in no fuel. Thought it was maybe a battery so I threw the jump pack on it
Once it freed up it would crank but wouldn't catch and throw an oil pressure light so I stopped. It then threw, what is now a red herring, flashing GP light P0321 for the G28 crank senaor, which according to Rosstech wiki can occur when the engine fails to fire over.

Today I went and tried and the following happened:

https://youtu.be/FuP6IlHuf6o

https://youtu.be/-tKlRmKfVTQ

Took it around the neighborhood for a 25m drive with no problems (bit of white smoke at first)
But it's running fine now.

What should my next steps be? Contact the dealer for the tsb? Did I bend my rods?

I'm not driving the car for now until I figure out what to do next.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Sounds like a classic case of water ingestion. My experience is that this is a very rare occurance, dealer says (I asked at VW dealer today after my event) it should have been fixed by the mod they put out way back. Bottom line (IMHO) the engine smoothes out after nursing it back to life but it takes a bit. After that, all is back to normal & no after effects. Note that in theory, a bit of water in the cylinder can raise the compression ratio so high that the starter motor can't push it through TDC. When that happens, it sounds like the battery is drained & unable to turn it over. I just hope and keep fingers crossed that the engine does not gulp a slurpie at high speed which may cause serious damage...
 

jason_

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Location
grand rapids michigan
TDI
2015 s wagon dsg
Ive bent connecting rods in other engines just with a fresh starter and hot battery....

That little gear against that huge flywheel, tremendous torque..

Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk
 

Loafing

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2011
Location
Hamilton
TDI
09 Mexican Jet
Ive bent connecting rods in other engines just with a fresh starter and hot battery....

That little gear against that huge flywheel, tremendous torque..

Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk

Yea, huge mechanical advantage.... "The mechanical advantage is the ratio of the number of teeth on the output gear to the number of teeth on the input gear."
 

Miser_TDI

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 19, 2004
Location
Northern Ohio
TDI
2004 Jetta GLS (Galactic Blue, Leather, cold wx) JUST PURCHASED: 2012 Jetta TDI, blue, DSG. Nice car. :)
Still freezing/ingesting water with "new/mod" intercooler?

Hi all


So let's say the local dealer put on the "new" intercooler with the flap that allegedly prevents this issue. Some time went by until ....



You ended up having the issue again anyway (hard start/rough running/hard crank/obvious water slurp).

What then? Is there a fix beyond the different intercooler?


My 2012 is "fixed" and currently stock so subject to the extended warranty.

Edit: miles are currently wrong on my .signature, I really, really need to update)
-Miser
 

cyclopropene

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 4, 2014
Location
MA
TDI
12 Golf DSG (Bought Back 12-12-18)
This just happened on my '11 with 70k. I bought it in March with 60k.

Drove it home Thursday (temp 24* high, 14* Low
Didn't touch it Friday (temp 32* high, 15* low)
Went to go to work Saturday (45* at this time)

Cranked then stopped then cranked and just sounded "dry" as in no fuel.

The same thing happened to my 12 Golf, on that same day, after similar driving and also in the Boston area with those same temperatures. I started it up on that cold Thanksgiving Thursday just to move it on the driveway to make room for guests to park, then didn't touch it until Saturday. Tried to start, and it just bucked and stalled. That happened a few times before it finally caught and idled very rough for a few minutes with some white smoke out the tailpipe. I drove it until it came to full operating temperature and it has been fine since. Only the second rough start I have had in 127k miles (last time was at -11 *F). Buyback scheduled for next week...
 

Miser_TDI

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 19, 2004
Location
Northern Ohio
TDI
2004 Jetta GLS (Galactic Blue, Leather, cold wx) JUST PURCHASED: 2012 Jetta TDI, blue, DSG. Nice car. :)
No other fix from VW.

Heh. Thank goodness for the "dieselgate" extended warranty!


Guess they'll owe me a new engine if something catastrophic happens.


From research (and the recent posts here) I did purchase a winter front that I'm going to put on (at least over the intercooler/lower part).


-Miser
 

Matt927

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Location
Northeast
TDI
several
Running a lower winter cover has prevented any intercooler icing in the three CJAA motors I have owned, both with the fix and without.
 

Blindsider

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Location
Upstate NY
TDI
10 JSW and 15 Golf dsg
Wondering if my situation sounds like this problem to you guys. I’m in upstate NY so it’s been raining and cold for months. Last week temp was 5 degrees F. Car started but glow plug light flashed and it was in limp mode. Parked it for a couple days and it was warmer and started back up without the flashing glow plug light. Test drive got the flashing glow plug again after a few miles and back into limp mode. Can’t get to it again for a week and now it doesn’t even try and turn over. Tested and charged battery and it seems to be good. I’m going to push it into my garage to check the intercooler. I’m getting a Vag com cable tonight to run the codes. Wondering what you guys think. Thanks
 

cleaver

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2006
Location
Berwick, Nova Scotia
TDI
None - did own '01 and '02 Jetta TDI
Wondering if my situation sounds like this problem to you guys. I’m in upstate NY so it’s been raining and cold for months. Last week temp was 5 degrees F. Car started but glow plug light flashed and it was in limp mode. Parked it for a couple days and it was warmer and started back up without the flashing glow plug light. Test drive got the flashing glow plug again after a few miles and back into limp mode. Can’t get to it again for a week and now it doesn’t even try and turn over. Tested and charged battery and it seems to be good. I’m going to push it into my garage to check the intercooler. I’m getting a Vag com cable tonight to run the codes. Wondering what you guys think. Thanks

Not for an '02, or do you have another vehicle. If its your '02 start another thread in the proper forum. You will get much more help.
 

Blindsider

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Location
Upstate NY
TDI
10 JSW and 15 Golf dsg
Never mind. Just pulled a big hunk of ice out of the bottom lines so that answers that. Thanks for the tips guys.

Flatbed came and took the car to the dealership. They said it'll be covered. Not sure why they didn't fix this before all this when they did the diesel gate fix.
 
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seyda

New member
Joined
Dec 27, 2018
Location
Cincinnati
TDI
VW Golf TDI 2013
Hi, I’m new here and need direction. I have a 2013 golf tdi 4dr hatchback and I’m habing some issues with it. Looking for some threads that might be related/could help me resolve my situation. Thank you!!
 

cleaver

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2006
Location
Berwick, Nova Scotia
TDI
None - did own '01 and '02 Jetta TDI
Hi, I’m new here and need direction. I have a 2013 golf tdi 4dr hatchback and I’m habing some issues with it. Looking for some threads that might be related/could help me resolve my situation. Thank you!!
That's a vague statement, but to point you in a direction, go to google and type in:

site:forums.tdiclub.com issue


instead of typing "issue" type in the problem you are having...Google will search all of tdiclub forums for threads similar.
 

seyda

New member
Joined
Dec 27, 2018
Location
Cincinnati
TDI
VW Golf TDI 2013
That's a vague statement, but to point you in a direction, go to google and type in:

site:forums.tdiclub.com issue


instead of typing "issue" type in the problem you are having...Google will search all of tdiclub forums for threads similar.

Hello,

I resolved my issue. Next time I will try this :)

Thanks!
 

Miser_TDI

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 19, 2004
Location
Northern Ohio
TDI
2004 Jetta GLS (Galactic Blue, Leather, cold wx) JUST PURCHASED: 2012 Jetta TDI, blue, DSG. Nice car. :)
Covers and new intercooler doesn't necessarily help.

Running a lower winter cover has prevented any intercooler icing in the three CJAA motors I have owned, both with the fix and without.

Unfortunately it seems that even with the updated intercooler, and upper and lower covers, it still happens.


Single digits yesterday, drove to work ok, drove home ok, parked in heated garage, this morning tried to start, world war three.


Calling dealer today and hopefully taking it in today. It should be cold enough today at work (parking lot) that I'm crossing my fingers it will start. Otherwise, that's what AAA is for. :)



Will report what I find. It's under warranty, so they need to do something. I could tune it and fix it for good, but then I lose the warranty. Would it be prudent for me to perhaps call VWoA first to get a case ready for the dealer?
 

MonsterTDI09

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Location
NoVa/NJ
TDI
2010 Jetta DSG/ up keep on 2009 Jetta DSG 2006 Jetta Pag 2 in North SEA Green
How long was your drive to work? Also what was the temperature?
 

Miser_TDI

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 19, 2004
Location
Northern Ohio
TDI
2004 Jetta GLS (Galactic Blue, Leather, cold wx) JUST PURCHASED: 2012 Jetta TDI, blue, DSG. Nice car. :)
How long was your drive to work? Also what was the temperature?

Edit 1: Going to the dealer today for them to "diagnose" the car. (unless there is a stored code due to the rough start/stalling there are no lights on, and I have not scanned it with my VCDS) Yes I know it will be a goose chase. VWoA regional rep is going to call me back regarding loaner. It would be nice if it would be just the flap in the new intercooler is stuck open or similar... Will keep updating as things happen.


My drive is 30 minutes, mostly highway.


In dash temperature said 10 degrees F or so on the way home last night. As I mentioned above, upper and lower covers installed.



My main garage is heated when it is really, really cold. Probably got up to 40-50 degrees before I went to bed - based on all the slush that melted and fell off the car ...


Local stealer doesn't have any loaners (allegedly). I am calling VWoA right now (currently on hold) to see what they can do. I have another TDI but it is scheduled to go to the local mechanic for some routine work and I don't want to swap to it and delay this work any longer than I have to. So as far as the dealer is concerned, I only have one car. :)


If the 2012 blows, it blows - it's under warranty.


I am really, really, resisting the urge to tune it. Don't want to lose the warranty!



-Miser
 
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Dwagen

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2018
Location
United States of America
TDI
2004 VW Jetta GLS TDI; 2013 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI
@Miser_TDI: They told me they didn’t have any loaners as well when they were fixing my TDI under the extended warranty, but when my turbo got in the way (it ended up being a different sensor than they originally thought) and it was slated to take longer than a day, they magically had a loaner suddenly available for me.
 
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