I understand that some have it happen outside of the cold. I doubt a block would make much difference then. The "fix" by VW wouldn't either.Mine hydrolocked in April in pretty well summer like conditions - water in the intake of Diesel engine spells trouble regardless of temperature.
Just saying.
Hard Start / No Start - Is your intercooler frozen? Check Here!
- Thread starter GraniteRooster
- Start date
DashTrash
Member
I experienced a no-start icing issue one morning after the temperatures rose above freezing, to about 45. I had never encountered this before. It really confused me before I looked into this a little bit. I didn't think of taking it to the dealer as I didn't want them to touch the car.
I decided to drill the intercooler hose with a 1/16th bit as others have done, and it has been over a month since, and I have not had a single problem relating to intercooler ice so far (fingers crossed). I also used some pipe insulation to block off the lower grill. The vehicle warms up much faster and my economy has improved as well. We got smacked pretty good from that winter storm here in Northern VA, and the car has performed flawlessly with the temperatures and moisture.
I decided to drill the intercooler hose with a 1/16th bit as others have done, and it has been over a month since, and I have not had a single problem relating to intercooler ice so far (fingers crossed). I also used some pipe insulation to block off the lower grill. The vehicle warms up much faster and my economy has improved as well. We got smacked pretty good from that winter storm here in Northern VA, and the car has performed flawlessly with the temperatures and moisture.
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Update. Wife got her car back from dealership and has a new glowplug to replace defective one. Being in the mid 50s today, I did the drill mod to the charge air pipe described in this thread http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=431560. First thing, I decided to see if the dealer followed my simple request of pulling the rubber hose from the charge air pipe. It seems as if they did. While there was evidence of water having been in the system by the sludge and moisture beading, There was no large amount as others had found. The hose also did not put up much fight when I removed it from the pipe on the passenger side. I cleaned the sludge from the tube and hose the best I could and reinstalled. I decided I'd try to tackle the driver's side since I was on my back anyway. It was much more difficult to break the seal and I was unable to wrestle the hose off even with the seal broken. So, I do believe the techs at least did drain the water. So, after pulling the cover, we let the engine idle. Then, as shown in the picture of post 77 of the thread, I drilled the drain hole just a little farther toward the right (driver's side) with a 3/32" bit. It seemed to be the lowest point on that part. After running the bit in and out a couple of times, I noticed a very light droplet spray of water, so there was some more condensation inside. I replaced the cover, then we took the car on a spirited trip up and down the road. No effect whatsoever on response time or boost pressure. Still spools just as fast and buries the needle just past 35psi. At least we can relax knowing the engine should be safer now.
WolfsburgGolfTDI
Veteran Member
Had another issue this afternoon.
-Car was parked in 40 degree garage at home
- left for work at 5:30am this morning and parked in 51 degree parking garage at work at 6am. The temps outside was 19 degrees
- came to my car after work at 2pm at and when I put the car in 1st, I could feel the car hesitate. It didn't die, but it was hiccuping and took a bit before it acted normal
I guess it's the varying temps and I'll probably jack the car up this weekend to take a look at that lower Intercooler pipe
-Car was parked in 40 degree garage at home
- left for work at 5:30am this morning and parked in 51 degree parking garage at work at 6am. The temps outside was 19 degrees
- came to my car after work at 2pm at and when I put the car in 1st, I could feel the car hesitate. It didn't die, but it was hiccuping and took a bit before it acted normal
I guess it's the varying temps and I'll probably jack the car up this weekend to take a look at that lower Intercooler pipe
tdibeetle13
New member
Hard Start / No Start = Frozen Intercooler
First, I want to thank everyone who has posted about this issue. I have a 2013 TDI Beetle that I bought new in 2014. Just recently I started having problems starting my car, hard start, then yesterday it flat out wouldn't start. Regardless, I took it to the dealer because it is still under warranty and they told me it is a frozen intercooler problem.
Does anyone know why VW wouldn't proactively fix this problem, especially if you live in an area that regularly drops below freezing temperatures?
I have experienced the problem intermittently for the past month, thinking it was a fuel issue. My concern is what I don't know. If water has got into my engine over the past month and caused further damage I clearly don't know that, but anyone who has had this problem fixed for a while, have you had any further problems? I have read the "fix" being referred to as a placebo; is there anything else I can do to ensure I don't have this issue again?
First, I want to thank everyone who has posted about this issue. I have a 2013 TDI Beetle that I bought new in 2014. Just recently I started having problems starting my car, hard start, then yesterday it flat out wouldn't start. Regardless, I took it to the dealer because it is still under warranty and they told me it is a frozen intercooler problem.
Does anyone know why VW wouldn't proactively fix this problem, especially if you live in an area that regularly drops below freezing temperatures?
I have experienced the problem intermittently for the past month, thinking it was a fuel issue. My concern is what I don't know. If water has got into my engine over the past month and caused further damage I clearly don't know that, but anyone who has had this problem fixed for a while, have you had any further problems? I have read the "fix" being referred to as a placebo; is there anything else I can do to ensure I don't have this issue again?
Yes, sell the car. That's what I did. Finally fixed the problem along with all the other issues with the car. All cured by Toyota.
I posted about this earlier in the thread:
To each his own. I've driven several Toyotas and none of them were really all that fun to drive. They also lack the headroom and legroom I must have in a car to be comfortable.
Honestly if I had to choose or recommend a good, safe, reliable and fun car from a Japanese car maker I'd say Mazda or Honda. Toyotas just lack something in the driving feel department. Sadly for me pretty much all of the above are a tad too small. Even the Accord and Mazda 6.
Went to a local auto show last weekend to sit in a ton of cars & trucks. The surprise for me was how well I fit in a KIA optima. Though the steering wheel was a bit too far forward even telescoped out all the way. Another interesting contender for driver room was several Chevy cars. Though none of them had a hatchback that compared to the Golf.
Pretty much every German brand fit me great! The GTI was probably one of my favorite cars for the price & driver fit.
VW should have fixed it by 2013. I don't know why they didn't by then.
I've not followed the Beetle side of things. Looks like you could probably block the lower section while leaving the top slot open and maybe have some luck or read through the last 20 pages or so and drill the hole.
We've had temps all over the place also but not a single hesitation with my lower grill blocked.
Link to thread regarding drilling a hole into the intercooler piping:
https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=431560
From all I've seen reported it seems to be the best solution thus far.
Campbellonh
Veteran Member
Has anyone with a drilled hole had the problem recur? I am curious. I've been reluctant to try it myself.
SundanceGS
Active member
I drilled the hole last winter and have had the icing recur a couple of times when conditions are right.
However, I haven't had any more "hydrolock" episodes when the ice has melted and I start the engine. Also, the stumbling once I get it started is much milder than I experienced before I drilled the hole. Once I start the engine, I let it idle for about 20 seconds to give the positive pressure in the intercooler line time to blow the water out of the hole and then I put it in gear and go... It's worked fine every time.
Now, prior to drilling the hole, it was disastrous. Hydrolocked engine (thought it was a dead battery) and, once I did get it started, it shook like an out-of-balance paint can shaker. Terrible.
So, for me, the drilled hole has been very effective and has caused absolutely zero issues that I am aware of.
However, I haven't had any more "hydrolock" episodes when the ice has melted and I start the engine. Also, the stumbling once I get it started is much milder than I experienced before I drilled the hole. Once I start the engine, I let it idle for about 20 seconds to give the positive pressure in the intercooler line time to blow the water out of the hole and then I put it in gear and go... It's worked fine every time.
Now, prior to drilling the hole, it was disastrous. Hydrolocked engine (thought it was a dead battery) and, once I did get it started, it shook like an out-of-balance paint can shaker. Terrible.
So, for me, the drilled hole has been very effective and has caused absolutely zero issues that I am aware of.
mr_y82
Veteran Member
^
"
Now, prior to drilling the hole, it was disastrous. Hydrolocked engine (thought it was a dead battery) and, once I did get it started, it shook like an out-of-balance paint can shaker. Terrible."
Well said... Makes you cringe, doesn't it...??? I know that feeling all too well... now that things are good I just hope we didn't cause any serious damage though that debacle...
"
Now, prior to drilling the hole, it was disastrous. Hydrolocked engine (thought it was a dead battery) and, once I did get it started, it shook like an out-of-balance paint can shaker. Terrible."
Well said... Makes you cringe, doesn't it...??? I know that feeling all too well... now that things are good I just hope we didn't cause any serious damage though that debacle...
SundanceGS
Active member
It made me cringe, alright... it was horrible to experience. And, you're right, I hope nothing broke/bent during those few episodes. I have no evidence to indicate that anything did, thank goodness, as the car runs fantastically.
The Malone Stage 2 tune really did a number of making it a lot more fun to drive. Sometimes I floor it in 6th gear to pass someone and I'm amazed at how it gets up and goes... even when going up a hill. It's not as potent as my 335d but, then again, my Jetta Cup Edition gets considerably better fuel economy. And has more room in the trunk. And in the back seat. And has folding rear seats. And it came with a manual transmission.
But both are really wonderful cars.
TDI57
Veteran Member
Drilled my 1/16 inch hole last night. No water came out. No affect on performance, hit 110 this early morning with no traffic just to make sure.
Have a bit more peace of mind knowing that if water forms in the pipes it will not accumulate but pass through the tiny hole. Just to confirm how the water will pass through, I drilled the bottom of a plastic bottle with the 1/16 inch bit and water flowed freely through, more than just a drip drip drip. I will check my belley pan in a week or so to see what if anything has been blown out.
STRANGETDI
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2001
- Location
- East Hampton, CT
- TDI
- 2013 Audi A3 S-Line Premium Plus Quattro - APR Stage II
Keep us posted on the belly pan and how much mess is there.Drilled my 1/16 inch hole last night. No water came out. No affect on performance, hit 110 this early morning with no traffic just to make sure.
Have a bit more peace of mind knowing that if water forms in the pipes it will not accumulate but pass through the tiny hole. Just to confirm how the water will pass through, I drilled the bottom of a plastic bottle with the 1/16 inch bit and water flowed freely through, more than just a drip drip drip. I will check my belley pan in a week or so to see what if anything has been blown out.
mr_y82
Veteran Member
^I second this, keep us posted! 110km/hr, right
Anyway, back to topic... TDI57, let us know what you find!
hit 110 this early morning with no traffic just to make sure.
The tune is great (good tires are in order, lol). Don´t know if I mentioned it in this thread... I have a 01 325xi... lovely car too, albeit slow... I miss the fixed up 92 Prelude I sold to buy it... Wife wanted a car to drive to work in the snow (could have put winter tires on the Prelude, it had an LSD and went fine in the snow)... I daily drive an 06 mx-5. I enjoy it.
Anyway, back to topic... TDI57, let us know what you find!
TDI57
Veteran Member
110 MPH.^I second this, keep us posted! 110km/hr, right
The tune is great (good tires are in order, lol). Don´t know if I mentioned it in this thread... I have a 01 325xi... lovely car too, albeit slow... I miss the fixed up 92 Prelude I sold to buy it... Wife wanted a car to drive to work in the snow (could have put winter tires on the Prelude, it had an LSD and went fine in the snow)... I daily drive an 06 mx-5. I enjoy it.
Anyway, back to topic... TDI57, let us know what you find!
Looked last night, just a teeny bit of moisture in the pan, not bad.
mr_y82
Veteran Member
surely not!
Thanks for the update!
Thanks for the update!
TDI57
Veteran Member
Dropped the pan just enough to look for water and found two lima bean size drops on the pan. Certainly can live with that. Nice to know that even that small amount is not residing in the pipes.
PlaneCrazy
Top Post Dawg
Seems a bit extreme! I found that aggressive acceleration to your normal highway speed, ever 100 km or so, prevented enough moisture buildup for a hydrolock. As in, up to redline in every gear until you hit normal speed.110 MPH.
Looked last night, just a teeny bit of moisture in the pan, not bad.
Around here in Quebec, if you get nailed at that speed you get your licence suspended on the spot for 7 days for a first offence, you are fined and if found guilty you lose 14 points (15 is the no. of points at which you lose your licence) and the fine is $1280. In Ontario it's even worse, exceed the limit by 50 km/h (30 mph) in a 100 km/h zone (62 mph) and you also get your car seized.
That would bite for just trying to clean out your intercooler lines. There's no law though, preventing you from accelerating to redline until an acceptable driving speed (which around here is roughly 20 km/h or 12 mph over the speed limit).
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TDI57
Veteran Member
Most certainly is extreme, and not normal practice. Did it just once to see if anything weird came up after the "modification".
There are ways that one would think would keep the system clean as you mentioned, and as normal driving I tend to at least every other trip get the tach up to clear the pipes.
Even with that driving style, water will come out of the pipe overnight.
Matatk
Veteran Member
This is a copy from what I posted in the A3 forum. Figured I'd share it here as well:
We've had some strange weather around here the last few days. 60s over the weekend followed by freezing temps and snow the next few days. On Wednesday morning it was 13* when I started the car. Driving to work after it warmed up I noticed some light surging, but it disappeared so I dismissed it. Came out of work in the afternoon and it was about 34* and the car was sitting in the sun.
Turned the key and the car fired up and immediately died. Thinking it was a fluke, I restarted it. Ran one second, with a rough idle, and died. Now I was starting to get concerned. I waited a minute and fires it again, same results, died instantly. I tried once more (probably shouldn't have) and it died again instantly.
I suspected water in the intercooler. I called my buddy who has a shop and a tow truck just down the street. He towed me to his shop and I got to work. Crawled under the car, took off the skid plate, and removed the intercooler hose. I drained 10 oz of yellow tinted water from the hose. Started the car and it fired up and ran flawlessly.
I did check the intercooler tube 2,000 miles ago and it was ok. Just goes to show you that even with regular maintenance you can't control the environmental conditions that cause this.
Luckily I didn't damage anything. Trying to figure out a petcock solution or similar. I don't like the idea of drilling a hole like some guys have done.
Just thought I'd pass along my experience.
We've had some strange weather around here the last few days. 60s over the weekend followed by freezing temps and snow the next few days. On Wednesday morning it was 13* when I started the car. Driving to work after it warmed up I noticed some light surging, but it disappeared so I dismissed it. Came out of work in the afternoon and it was about 34* and the car was sitting in the sun.
Turned the key and the car fired up and immediately died. Thinking it was a fluke, I restarted it. Ran one second, with a rough idle, and died. Now I was starting to get concerned. I waited a minute and fires it again, same results, died instantly. I tried once more (probably shouldn't have) and it died again instantly.
I suspected water in the intercooler. I called my buddy who has a shop and a tow truck just down the street. He towed me to his shop and I got to work. Crawled under the car, took off the skid plate, and removed the intercooler hose. I drained 10 oz of yellow tinted water from the hose. Started the car and it fired up and ran flawlessly.
I did check the intercooler tube 2,000 miles ago and it was ok. Just goes to show you that even with regular maintenance you can't control the environmental conditions that cause this.
Luckily I didn't damage anything. Trying to figure out a petcock solution or similar. I don't like the idea of drilling a hole like some guys have done.
Just thought I'd pass along my experience.
CEaton
Well-known member
Yep! My failure in January was during big temp swings like you're having.
We are having temp swings in my neck of the woods this and next week which would surely cause me issues, but it won't this time! Why you might ask? Well, that's because my car is languishing, dead, at the dealer, for at least the next two weeks with a blown up HPFP, yay Volkswagen!
We are having temp swings in my neck of the woods this and next week which would surely cause me issues, but it won't this time! Why you might ask? Well, that's because my car is languishing, dead, at the dealer, for at least the next two weeks with a blown up HPFP, yay Volkswagen!
ray96disco
Veteran Member
I thought the HPFP problem was a thing of the past. Oh, well, what're you going to do? Story of my life.
CEaton
Well-known member
I thought so too, but I got caught in that mess this past Sunday.
I started a thread about it: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=457663
I started a thread about it: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=457663
TDI57
Veteran Member
I was very reluctant too. But imagine if there was just a teeny little 1/16 hole drilled in the plastic allowing that to drain out. No tow truck, no hard start, no possible engine damage. To me it is well worth it.This is a copy from what I posted in the A3 forum. Figured I'd share it here as well:
We've had some strange weather around here the last few days. 60s over the weekend followed by freezing temps and snow the next few days. On Wednesday morning it was 13* when I started the car. Driving to work after it warmed up I noticed some light surging, but it disappeared so I dismissed it. Came out of work in the afternoon and it was about 34* and the car was sitting in the sun.
Turned the key and the car fired up and immediately died. Thinking it was a fluke, I restarted it. Ran one second, with a rough idle, and died. Now I was starting to get concerned. I waited a minute and fires it again, same results, died instantly. I tried once more (probably shouldn't have) and it died again instantly.
I suspected water in the intercooler. I called my buddy who has a shop and a tow truck just down the street. He towed me to his shop and I got to work. Crawled under the car, took off the skid plate, and removed the intercooler hose. I drained 10 oz of yellow tinted water from the hose. Started the car and it fired up and ran flawlessly.
I did check the intercooler tube 2,000 miles ago and it was ok. Just goes to show you that even with regular maintenance you can't control the environmental conditions that cause this.
Luckily I didn't damage anything. Trying to figure out a petcock solution or similar. I don't like the idea of drilling a hole like some guys have done.
Just thought I'd pass along my experience.
Matatk
Veteran Member
I appreciate the comment. I read the 30+ pages on the drill/no drill thread. At this point I have some ideas I'd like to work with first before I drill. Not saying it's wrong for anyone else to do it, I just want to wait and see what else I can figure out.
b1jackson
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2005
- Location
- Prince Edward Island, Canada
- TDI
- 2012 Golf - Gone in BUYBACK. Replaced with 2015 Golf
I have my grill (lower) covered this winter for the first time. It's been a crazy winter of temps up and down over freezing which of course are the perfect conditions for this issue. Not a problem here either where other years without it have always brought on a hard start.
Matatk
Veteran Member
Today's update:
It has been three days since I drained the 10 ounces of water out of the intercooler. This morning I was driving to work and on the highway doing about 60. At a steady cruise, I could feel some light surging which seems to be my clue there's water present in the intercooler.
Got home tonight and pulled the hose and found this:
After seeing that, I decided I couldn't take a chance anymore. I got out the drill and did the hole mod to the plastic down pipe. I used a 5/64 drill bit (1.9844 mm). I started up the car and found that it produced a very slow drip even at idle, so it appears that it has the potential to work. I'll post up with any other changes.
It has been three days since I drained the 10 ounces of water out of the intercooler. This morning I was driving to work and on the highway doing about 60. At a steady cruise, I could feel some light surging which seems to be my clue there's water present in the intercooler.
Got home tonight and pulled the hose and found this:
After seeing that, I decided I couldn't take a chance anymore. I got out the drill and did the hole mod to the plastic down pipe. I used a 5/64 drill bit (1.9844 mm). I started up the car and found that it produced a very slow drip even at idle, so it appears that it has the potential to work. I'll post up with any other changes.
