Hard Start / No Start - Is your intercooler frozen? Check Here!

[cnr2003]

I have been experiencing this off and on all winter. 2010 Jetta with 147k miles. It died on two occasions after backing into the street, but was able to get it restarted both times.

Took it to my local VW dealer and explained the problem. They diagnosed it and recommended to install the kit, but said I had to contact vwoa myself. I did and got no help at all from them. Any suggestions as to what to do next?

 

[gregert12]

I have been experiencing this off and on all winter. 2010 Jetta with 147k miles. It died on two occasions after backing into the street, but was able to get it restarted both times.

Took it to my local VW dealer and explained the problem. They diagnosed it and recommended to install the kit, but said I had to contact vwoa myself. I did and got no help at all from them. Any suggestions as to what to do next?

call VW. did your dealer state this in their computer system or was it verbal?

 

[ChanLewis]

cnr, I had the same experience -- service manager recommended to get the kit (which I did), but I had to cough up the money and then beg VWoA to give (some of) it back.

I reported my experience to VWoA about two weeks ago, and haven't heard anything. My dealer charged me a little over $1100 for labor and 10-degree kit.

I'm out of warranty at 85K. I'll post info if I hear anything from VW.

 

[marleyi]

Well had my first experience with the IC icing. Drove in the morning with no issues. Then tried to start it before lunch and it died. It wouldnt turn over after that. After 30 minutes it started. The service advisor at VW called me and said it starts so no issue. So I emailed him the TSB and told him to have his technician actually look for a problem instead of trying to replicate it. I told him in not paying $110 for them to turn a key and say its ok. He seemed to get angry when I told him I had called VWoA to get an area manager involved.

 

[JBell]

I take it your car is no longer in Huntington Beach??

 

[marleyi]

Yup I need to update that now. I have located to Dallas where it actually gets below freezing.

 

[tdiatlast]

I'm continuing to shake my head following this thread.
I'm in No. VA, 72k miles, 09JSW DSG. Wide temp and humidity swings. I take mostly short trips, 3-5 miles, although the car gets a twice weekly highway cruise, full operating temp. January saw three cold-soak 3 day rests at the airport, 15-40f, come back, car fires up no problem. 1.5miles to the highway, 65-70mph for 40miles, no problem.
Always plugged in at home (Frostheater), so coolant never gets below 120f.

Car has a Revo tune, only useful in S or Tip, because the DSG has issues with de-fueling at gear changes if I'm in Drive. I use Drive 95% of time, only using S or Tip to pass or have a little fun. MPG is right at EPA 29 city, 46 highway (light foot)

Is it possible the Revo tune has something to do with my car having zero cold-start issues? Both IC hoses checked (only every 10k miles), normal oily coating, no drips.

 

[ticketed2much]

Car has a Revo tune, only useful in S or Tip, because the DSG has issues with de-fueling at gear changes if I'm in Drive. I use Drive 95% of time, only using S or Tip to pass or have a little fun. MPG is right at EPA 29 city, 46 highway (light foot)

Is it possible the Revo tune has something to do with my car having zero cold-start issues? Both IC hoses checked (only every 10k miles), normal oily coating, no drips.

There's really no concrete evidence, but I think the larger volume of air moving through your intake (due to the tune) would decrease the chances of IC icing. Do you use a grille cover?

 

[kje]

I have had 3 of these this winter. The situation is always the same. Drive to work in morning is twenties or colder, warms up to the forties or more in the afternoon. Then car hard starts/ locks up on crank leaving work in the evening.

 

[fdizz]

How does the upper clamp on the intercooler hose come off?? I want to take the hose off and clean all the goop out of it that I can't reach.

 

[MonsterTDI09]

How does the upper clamp on the intercooler hose come off?? I want to take the hose off and clean all the goop out of it that I can't reach.

It works with a little hook tool. Pull the metal ring down and back a little so i the little tab stay in place. Meaning in the open position. Then slide the off the hose.

To put it back on slide the hose with clip in the open position. Then pop the clip in the slot. Then push and pull on the hose to make sure the hose is locked in you will here the clip lock in.

PS Make sure rubber o ring is in place and in the right direction.

 

[tdiatlast]

There's really no concrete evidence, but I think the larger volume of air moving through your intake (due to the tune) would decrease the chances of IC icing. Do you use a grille cover?

No grill cover. I just continue to drive the car, with absolutely zero start-up issues...ever...not even a hint of stumble...

 

[sickmtbnutcase]

Last two winters I've fully blocked the grille with pipe insulation. No rough start since I started doing that. Before that we have a few minor episodes the first two years we owned the car. Just pulled the IC hoses last weekend while doing the 90k service - no water or ice. Typical little bit of oil. Bone stock '09. Driven easily on mostly highways.

 

[bassman5066]

I'm continuing to shake my head following this thread.
I'm in No. VA, 72k miles, 09JSW DSG. Wide temp and humidity swings. I take mostly short trips, 3-5 miles, although the car gets a twice weekly highway cruise, full operating temp. January saw three cold-soak 3 day rests at the airport, 15-40f, come back, car fires up no problem. 1.5miles to the highway, 65-70mph for 40miles, no problem.
Always plugged in at home (Frostheater), so coolant never gets below 120f.

Car has a Revo tune, only useful in S or Tip, because the DSG has issues with de-fueling at gear changes if I'm in Drive. I use Drive 95% of time, only using S or Tip to pass or have a little fun. MPG is right at EPA 29 city, 46 highway (light foot)

Is it possible the Revo tune has something to do with my car having zero cold-start issues? Both IC hoses checked (only every 10k miles), normal oily coating, no drips.

It could be possible that the Revo tune does something with the LP EGR tables so that system is getting used less. You'd have to ask Revo, or have Mark Malone take a look at their tune and he could probably tell you. Another way might be to log your car vs a stock car on VCDS to see how often LP EGR is being activated. Not sure what you would log, but I'm sure someone out there knows.

Sent from my VCDS CAN Gateway

 

[cnr2003]

call VW. did your dealer state this in their computer system or was it verbal?

They gave me a printout that states they recommend the kit so it should be in the system. I did call VW and they gave me no help at all.

cnr, I had the same experience -- service manager recommended to get the kit (which I did), but I had to cough up the money and then beg VWoA to give (some of) it back.

I reported my experience to VWoA about two weeks ago, and haven't heard anything. My dealer charged me a little over $1100 for labor and 10-degree kit.

I'm out of warranty at 85K. I'll post info if I hear anything from VW.

Let me know what you hear. Dealer quoted me the same, but I did not get the kit. I have the lower grill covered with foam now and haven't hadn't any trouble lately.

 

[fdizz]

Well VWOA told me my car would have to have the problem replicated by a dealer before they would cover the new kit. I politely asked the lady if she wanted me to pour the 20 ounces of water I took out back in to my IC tube and get it towed into the nearest dealer. She didn't know what to say. I call the dealer tomorrow.

 

[Matt927]

Dealer could not replicate my problem. Installed kit no question.

 

[PlaneCrazy]

Well VWOA told me my car would have to have the problem replicated by a dealer before they would cover the new kit. I politely asked the lady if she wanted me to pour the 20 ounces of water I took out back in to my IC tube and get it towed into the nearest dealer. She didn't know what to say. I call the dealer tomorrow.

When I first reported the problem in Dec. 2011, the dealer said the same thing. Then I brought my car in for a routine service in Feb. 2012, then the dealer called me "we'd like to keep your car an extra day, we just received the IC kit and need about half a day to install it". And so they did, and so in May my car died on the side of the road due to massive coolant loss because they forgot to clip a rad hose in place and the fan chewed through it. Fortunately the only cost to me on that was the aggravation, a suspension arm and wheel alignment to fix up what the flatbed driver tooefed on the suspension when he pulled the car on board.

 

[fdizz]

When I first reported the problem in Dec. 2011, the dealer said the same thing. Then I brought my car in for a routine service in Feb. 2012, then the dealer called me "we'd like to keep your car an extra day, we just received the IC kit and need about half a day to install it". And so they did, and so in May my car died on the side of the road due to massive coolant loss because they forgot to clip a rad hose in place and the fan chewed through it. Fortunately the only cost to me on that was the aggravation, a suspension arm and wheel alignment to fix up what the flatbed driver tooefed on the suspension when he pulled the car on board.

See that's what I'm afraid of with everything they have to remove. Sorry man. I decided last night I'm going Malone stg 2 with a dpf/egr delete. Rid the problem at the source and lose that dpf filter since I'm coming up on 120k.

 

[Samcar222]

I have a question for those who technically understand the core cause of this issue better than I do... What is more relevant in terms of IC ice creation.. relative humidity (proximity of temp and dew pt) OR, simply cold ambient temperatures?

IE, if it's very cold but very dry (as I type this in rochester ny, 45% RH, 18*f ambient, 3*f DP) are you are less likely to develop "frost" on the insides of the intercooler due to the lack of moisture in the air?

I know that the cold weather grille blocks try to raise the core temperature of the intercooler as much as possible above the dew point of the intake air to prevent icing.

Thoughts?

 

[flyboy320]

I have a question for those who technically understand the core cause of this issue better than I do... What is more relevant in terms of IC ice creation.. relative humidity (proximity of temp and dew pt) OR, simply cold ambient temperatures?

IE, if it's very cold but very dry (as I type this in rochester ny, 45% RH, 18*f ambient, 3*f DP) are you are less likely to develop "frost" on the insides of the intercooler due to the lack of moisture in the air?

I know that the cold weather grille blocks try to raise the core temperature of the intercooler as much as possible above the dew point of the intake air to prevent icing.

Thoughts?

It's my understanding the vast majority of the moisture comes from the low pressure EGR dumping hot moisture laden air into the intake/intercooler.

Not much of the moisture comes from the outside air, except I would imagine if it's raining/snowing and you haven't blocked off the intake as the air intake takes air directly from the front of the car and can easily suck in rain and snow.

 

[2pt. slo]

Unfortunately it has happened to me. The past few weeks I have been having intermittent power lose at WOT. Came to this forum and immediately started researching the issue. I saw this thread but didn't think it pertained until last night. Weather has been cold here in NC well below freezing the past few days. Got in the car to leave work temp was around 20, issues presented itself as dead battery. Waited a few moments tried again and the car turned over but did not start. With the dead battery symptom then the car able to start turning over a few moments later I immediately thought of this thread and came and read until the wife could pick me up.

Today, I take off the belly pan and intercooler pipe and sure enough Icing. Not a little either. Temp is still in the low 20's today.

After getting as much as I could find out of the piping the car turns over but refuses to start. I will be calling VWOA and my local dealership to discuss options as I'm at 85k miles...

So I worked very closely with my dealership and VWOA on my issue above. As I am well out of warranty at 85k I was doubtful that VW would do anything for me. Well VWOA regional case manager just contacted me and said they will reimburse me for my tow and will be replacing with new updated kit free of charge. Though my experience with the failure has been bad, my experience with VW and VWOA has been very good and easy.

Be firm when you need to when talking to both VW dealership and VWOA just not rude.

Just wanted to share.

 

[kjclow]

Great news, thanks. Give those of us that haven't had this problem but are out of warranty hope that VW will pick up the tab.

 

[Samcar222]

I understand the importance of the LP-EGR, but if conditions are appropriate for ice accumulation, which will cause more ice, highway driving at 2k+ rpm in boost, or city/town driving? I'd think highway.

 

[DubFamily]

I'm no expert but I would say the city driving would be at greater risk. Highway driving is more efficient, therefore less recirculation utilized.

 

[MonsterTDI09]

I'm no expert but I would say the city driving would be at greater risk. Highway driving is more efficient, therefore less recirculation utilized.

The LPEGR opens up when the car is under load.

 

[mac5155]

So I worked very closely with my dealership and VWOA on my issue above. As I am well out of warranty at 85k I was doubtful that VW would do anything for me. Well VWOA regional case manager just contacted me and said they will reimburse me for my tow and will be replacing with new updated kit free of charge. Though my experience with the failure has been bad, my experience with VW and VWOA has been very good and easy.

Be firm when you need to when talking to both VW dealership and VWOA just not rude.

Just wanted to share.

Did you tell him you posted these pix to TDIclub? Your pic is the one I use to show EVERYONE how bad of a problem this can be. So, thank you for posting

 

[2pt. slo]

I'm no expert but I would say the city driving would be at greater risk. Highway driving is more efficient, therefore less recirculation utilized.

My situation seems to be one of the more severe from what I've seen here. I do 100% highway driving. 65mph with cruise control every day 100 miles a day and I had very significant icing. I'm in NC and the weather is drastically changing to warm weather. I will report back with the new updated intercooler with any icing but it might be into next winter before happening again.

Did you tell him you posted these pix to TDIclub? Your pic is the one I use to show EVERYONE how bad of a problem this can be. So, thank you for posting

No I didn't tell them I posted here. I did give these exact pics to VWOA and my dealership. My service manger was in complete shock and said well there's your problem. She showed all the technicians at the dealership and they couldn't believe it happened. They said they will be on the lookout though now if TDI's come in with no start issues which is good.

 

[Samcar222]

Well day one of four above freezing days are among us (in parts of the Northeast at least), how is everybody doing after the "polar vortex"? Will be monitoring this closely..

 

[SkeeterMark]

Two prime icing days in a row here. Start out at upper teens (*F) for 65 mile drive to work, then up to 40*F by afternoon. This is the scenario I've always had icing previously. Happy to report, no problems yet. For me, the update seems to be working *fingers crossed*. No issues since installation in November.